In this session, we go beyond the technicality of Rush and delve into the philosophy of practice and the ‘karma’ of creative work. Neil speaks with the same precision he brought to the kit, offering a rare glimpse into the mind of a man who viewed rhythm as a lifelong intellectual pursuit. This remains one of the most meaningful conversations of my career.”

The Philosophy of the Path

Neil was famously private, but here he opens up about the restless drive that kept him moving forward—not just as the drummer for Rush, but as an author and traveler. We dig into his ‘working man’s’ approach to creativity: the idea that brilliance is a result of discipline and the willingness to be a ‘beginner’ over and over again.

The Judge of Adventures of Power

We talk about his love for the physical journey and how that translated into his role as the final judge in my film. Neil speaks with the same precision he brought to the kit, offering a rare glimpse into the mind of a man who viewed rhythm as a lifelong intellectual pursuit.

But first, the epic battle of “drums versus air-drums” to Rush’s Tom Sawyer, with the Professor, the GOAT, Neil Peart!

And the interview here:

RAW TRANSCRIPT (Pardon the old-school glitches):

ARI GOLD: I’m Ari Gold. I’m here at drum channel with Neil Peart, who was my initial air drum teacher, when I was eight years old, he didn’t know it, but I was air drumming to his music back then. And ultimately, I think he made me into a musician. And my first film is about air drummers. And so it was natural that I would want him to be in it. And it was incredible that he ended up being in this movie and helping me tell the story of what music means to people, whether they can hear whether they’re deaf, or whether they can speak and don’t know how to speak or whether they can play music or not.

And so we’re we’re here, at drum channel, talking about music, what it means to us, and also what it means to kids, and how great it can be if we can help support Music education for kids.

NEIL PEART: And my part of the film came about through a lady at our office, Peggy sent me a note saying, This guy is making a movie about air drummers. And he wants you to be in it as the judge. And I’m thinking hmm, if I were asked to judge a real air drumming contest, I don’t know if I would, so I thought, I don’t think so. And then, but Peggy got has, she has a really good instincts for these kinds of things. I got a feeling about this guy, that it could be something good. And you might want to think about it a more.

So I thought, Okay, and finally, I thought why not. And so went to a studio in over in San Fernando Valley anyway, and showed up. And it was remarkable. I can only compare it to I’ve worked a couple of times with independent bands, trying to make an album on a shoestring. And what the amount of work, they could pack into a day, the amount of music they could pack into a day, because every minute was so valuable. And there wasn’t time to experiment too much, they’d have an idea, let’s try a little, you know, Bongo part over this. So you do it once, okay, wait, and it will do the job. And they need to move on and get the most amount of work done.

And this film project was like this. And it was young people who were experienced enough to know what they were doing. But recently enough out of film, school, I think, to also have enthusiasm, not just for their craft, but for the project itself. And I think we did six or seven takes in, you know, half an hour basically finished one and set up and everybody was keen to be there. And it was quite a different thing. Of course, from from what a lot of wasteful experiences can be in front of a camera, even just filming a video where you spent three days to film, you know, four or five minutes song.

So it was wonderful to see that spirit among the people working on this film that it was so much not only a labor of love for it’s sparkplug Ari. But for everyone involved, it was something that they felt personally engaged with. So it turned out even the filming day was a great experience. And for anyone who hasn’t seen the film, I come out at the end to reward Power with his giant check prize. So filming that and being a part of it was was a wonderful experience, even on the day. So it’s something that’s paid off. And I and I have become friends now have have found we have so many other things in common. So I’m just so glad that Peggy at our office had good instincts encouraged me to be involved,

ARI GOLD: As am I, you talked about the it’s being done on a shoestring and the movies being released on a shoestring as well. We’re, we’re totally independent. And I think when I was making the movie, I had this idea that I would finish it and I would sell it to one of the big boys and and then I would you know sit back and watch it you Happily ever after. Yeah.

And in a way, I think the lesson of the movie karmically. It’s kind of great that it repeats itself absolute with the release where it’s like no, no, it’s ultimately the responsibility of of the artists and you know, my friends and everyone who believes in the movie, including Drum Channel, there was a contest on drum channel to see if two air drum put yourself online and see if you could get a lot of views. And Chad Smith from chicken foot and Chili Peppers was air Drumming as well. And so, you know you if you wanted to link to his page, you would see how, you know see how you did and I ended up trouncing him and although I credit the band Tokyo Hotel that blogged about my movie for inexplicable reasons. But anyway, so I thought this is great that there’s a channel that’s doing a air drum competition and that’s devoted to drummers and devoted to rhythm and and how

NEIL PEART: A tail perseverance to at the time we shot that scene was at 2006 Yeah, late 06 when we did so three years ago, almost now. And at the time, we shot the scene that I was involved with, and I said okay, now I have to go raise the money to finish the film. Yeah. And like you said, at that time, it was not only like you had a budget to work from but you needed to earn the budget, even day to day yeah, as you were going and the tail of that being that long ago to is the struggle to get it not only finished but then out in the world. Yeah.

Any person making music or writing words, or painting photography. Anyone knows, you know that to make that leap from creating your vision is one thing, but then to take that vision into another person’s eyes or ears is a whole other stuff. And like you said, it is a remarkable parallel karma with the character.

ARI GOLD: Yeah, the character thinks , the beginning, he thinks, Okay, if I just had a drum set, I would be a man. And, and then he learns that he already was, it’s all here. And so, you know, what I said to myself, a few months ago, when I decided to stop waiting for Hollywood to release the movie for me, I said, You know what, I’m getting mail every day from people who love the movie, I’m getting mail from people who thought it was funny, I get emails from people who, who cried because they were moved by the story.

Let me just work on releasing myself and the right people will come to me. And I think that’s how I ended up with with Drum Channel, I ended up with people who, who understand what I’m doing. And I now have a whole team of volunteers all over the country, really, in every city in the States, and also people from around the world starting to hear about it too, who are saying, How can I help? How can I get the word out about the movie, and that’s kind of a great thing. Because when I was first getting to Sundance with the rough cut, I was surrounded by people who I didn’t really trust who wanted to work with me, I love your work, and you know, and then suddenly, the business was having some trouble. And our first screening didn’t go so great.

And, and all those people scattered , all the users scattered. And now everyone who’s involved in the movie, everybody is in it for the right reasons. Because there aren’t dollar signs at the end of it. You know, now it’s really heart signs . Yeah, there’s just heart signs. Exactly. And that is a that is a hard lesson to to learn for myself, because I think the side of me that was wanting to wanting to sell out, you know, is gone now. And now it’s, I really just want the movie to connect with people and, and open myself up to let’s see what happens. I have comic book artists wjp, you know, who are now doing cartoons for my blog, for free. I have all these artists and and people who want to do art and you know, offering their services to the movie, and yeah,

NEIL PEART: some of us are sensitive to the real thing. You know, it’s so obvious that like I said, with my association, by the way is okay, I get you know, it’s all for real from our first exchange when we met,

ARI GOLD: I broke my arm while I was shooting the movie, which is funny in retrospect that you break your arm doing an air drumming movie, but the first two doctors that I called the The receptionist did not retake the call, because they thought it was a prank caller. Because it was in New Jersey and like, Entourage is really popular in that area. And everyone was like, this is a prank. Yeah. And so I couldn’t get medical attention.

Really, I guess I was about to tell a story about about why it was so wonderful to work with you. But what music meant to me at an early age and long before I played anything, I have such a strong memory of putting on moving pictures for the first time, which was not my record. But it was my older sister’s record and everything that came from her head a little bit of menace because it was those older people who might have tried cigarettes and stuff like that. But putting it on, I immediately felt something go through my body. And this is what eventually became the character of power and that music affects people’s bodies. And they’ve done studies now of kids and music and found that kids who engage with music kids who do dance or, or learn to play music become better at math, they become better at all kinds of different things because the nerve system actually gets trained by music to understand.

NEIL PEART: Yeah, musicologist Daniel Levitin is two books out now. But the first one this is your brain on music. And he’s a neurologist at University of Montreal, and a musician producer comes from both disciplines and has traced all that and there’s no activity that uses more of your brain and performing the or even listening the response to music. There’s so many parts of your brain that are called into the appreciation and what you said the immediate physical response and Mickey Hart one of the Grateful Dead drummers had drumming at the edge of magic and he did it’s the same thing as scholarly inquiry into rhythm and how it affects like from I guess from the age about three children can reproduce rhythm and feel rhythm and you know dancing and everything starts earlier but but the key the locking into period that comes along them and all the this the theory of entrainment he writes about where the if you put two analog alarm clocks beside each other, they will be in sync and 200 Beats sync. Yeah, yeah, they’ll tick tock, it’s easier for them to tick tock in sync.

And the same, the theory of entrainment goes down to even two heartbeats, or why women in the same house synchronize their rental cycles and all that. But the two drummers grateful that they used to lock their arms for half an hour before the show to get their early entrainment going. So then the physical response to it, I had the same thing first hearing music as a kid. And I can remember that hearing singles at the time. And just feeling that rhythm was was absolutely my first response to music before malady. And growing up in the 60s I did everybody at school played something, it seemed like, you know, especially in with The Rock Revolution, the Beatles coming along in the 60s and all that, everybody, you know, there was six bands, six rock bands among my classmates, all playing together, everybody was a drummer, and everybody was a bass player and got all competitive like, and that too, but the engagement with music was total.

For me at that I started playing drums on my 13th birthday, my parents got me drum lessons. And the advice I always give to parents too, is, you know, they’ll say, oh, I want to get my kid some drums. Which one should I get? I say well get a pair of sticks and a practice pad and lessons and see how it goes for a year. And if they’re playing that practice better, like me, I’d spread magazines around my bed. And it would be Keith Moon Trump’s, you know, pillows. Yeah, exactly, totally relates to the air drumming thing, I would make these wonderful drum sets out of magazines, and then beat the covers off them.

But from my 13th birthday on and then I had lessons every Saturday I’m going to practice all week, and learn a sight reading and, and playing by ear both my teacher was great on that. But even at the lesson, we were just playing practice pad drums. I didn’t play real drums for probably until after the first year. And then got a little three piece set. And I was talking with my dad the other day. And we were reminiscing about how he would take me up to my drum lessons on Saturdays, or I got him to meet me there one day because they had a set of gray ripple Rogers, I was all crazy for little drums a little 18 inch bass drum, 14 inch floor tom and 12 inch time, I’d stare at those Rogers drums every week at my lesson.

Finally through my mom, I got my dad to show up there and talk about them, they were $750. And we my dad would cosign for the loan, if I made the payments. So I cut lawns and I worked at my dad’s farm equipment dealership and everything to to pay that $33 a month, I still remember what the payment was all these years later, but I paid it off, I paid it off. And the if but if I ever broke ahead, or symbols, you know, terrible, but then I had a crack symbol and the guy at the music store gave credit gave me credit, as a teenager into this was like a step into the big world and trust that it gave me you know, and then paying that back as a matter of responsibility. And, and it was an urge to work to so I could buy that new symbol, you know, I would work for my dad during holidays or something to make that happen.

But the transition in life of suddenly having that mission and then I played at the school variety show, and it went really well you know, and my parents were there and they were proud and the other kids were making a big fuss. And it was the first time I’d done anything that was cool, you know, and that brought me some respect them on the kids because I was, you know, kind of a brainy nerd. And you know, power knows. There’s no coolness factor there. But after I did a drum solo at the variety show, and all the kids were buzzing about it. Suddenly, I had like an inch of cool in my life. And what a difference that made and then started playing in bands, it was the end of my scholastic career, unfortunately, because we just ended up band practice after school, or you’d skip school and go to the music store and talk about drums and talk about bands and all that stuff.

It became a completely consuming culture through my teenage years. But so validating and all those ways. So and you could be creative in not that we knew those words when you’re 1415. But it is what you’re doing, you know, getting together with the other guys and learning songs learning to imitate, and figuring out how you’re going to do something. The socializing aspect, you know, when you’re in a band with four or five guys, your brother’s, you know, however long it lasts, but that was such an important part of the period to and the instrument and the sense of community, and the validation of performing and learning and getting better. All of that stuff. There’s sport. I didn’t have that in sports. And I suppose that might be for some case,

ARI GOLD: some people do have it in sports, obviously. But like you said, you know, music does have a specific way of affecting the brain and the soul as well. doesn’t have that I don’t think Yeah. Well, we neither of us grew up with with heavy sports in our lives. So we can say that I’m sure there are people who would slap us. Yeah. But you know, after finishing the first cut of adventures of power and premiering at Sundance, I went to Guatemala with my ukulele. And as one does, as one does, I had to go

NEIL PEART: I went to go out with my ukulele.

ARI GOLD: Well, I wish I could say it was out of relaxation, but I just actually had to get away from the film world. I had to get away from certain reviews that were haunting me. And, you know, I hadn’t yet learned To ignore reviews,

NEIL PEART: the author Tom Robbins gave me the best advice. He said, I stopped reading reviews early on, because if I believe the good ones, I’d have to believe that yes, I follow that yes, I never write ever review,

ARI GOLD: I have learned that lesson. Now, I did not know that at that point. But

NEIL PEART: there had to be a school, there are each of these lessons, the hard way, we’re collecting knowledge, collecting experience and passing it along. It’s don’t ever read your reviews don’t read,

ARI GOLD: you know, going to these small towns with a ukulele instantly, I will be surrounded by kids who wanted to learn something they wanted to, they wanted to know how this little instrument worked. They wanted to try it they and seeing the kind of excitement that that this $30 piece of wood with nylon on him had on these kids made me realize, again, the power of music, and I talked to teachers in these towns were saying, oh, you know, it’s tough to get the kids to, to focus. And, you know, we’re way understaffed, and, you know, I’d see these schools with hundreds of kids and, you know, 10 teachers now. And I thought, you know, if we could just get ukuleles into all these schools,

NEIL PEART: you know, lately for every pair of hands, but seriously, on trade, too. I’ve traveled a lot in Africa. And of course, in West Africa, particularly the drum is the language. And it brought me into many wonderful encounters with people in these places. And in the city of Salvador in Brazil, is where the Brazilian Olodum the Brazilian marching drums on that Paul Simon album, rhythm of the saints. This is the town where all that is born and you walk down the street and you hear drums over here drums are here, a drum corps it’s it’s a Brazilian flavor on marching drums, of course, has a whole other rhythmic input in it.

ARI GOLD: But it works on the lower spine instead of well, it’s

NEIL PEART: got all those so much different counterpoint, and syncopation going on, but it’s still draws from our American marching bands. So it’s wonderful what happens there. But to walk down the street and hear it all around you coming from this room up here, and African villages are the same. You take a walk through a village in the night, you don’t hear TV sets, you don’t hear radios, because they don’t have any, but they have drums, and I had experienced like that of hearing drums coming from a compound and going inside and having a wonderful encounter of playing with the local drummer.

There was a young Irish missionary, their teenage kid, and he’d been trying to learn, and the African master had been like grabbing his hands basically trying to get him to play a rhythm. And he just couldn’t. So finally, as absolutely, you’re watching, give me a try. And then we’re playing away. And the the Guinea and rover and myself were playing back and forth, and back and forth, and all the kids crowd and start dancing. And all the women are looking the window howling with laughter, to see a white man playing a drum.

You know, this does not happen every day in this little village. But it was this amazing experience. At the end of it, we ended in floods of sweat, the trauma, and we did, you know, got matched together and walk and just ended and laugh laughing You know, by that point. And all the kids are laughing and the moms are laughing and it was this joyous scene. And then the poor Irish missionary says, do that.

I’m in the business. But yeah, what it can make in young people into and some parents and teachers, I suppose get too strict about is you must play the piano or you must play the violin, I think is apparent really just play something. And if they play a piano for a while and get bored, we’ll play guitar. And if you get bored, we’ll try violin try.

ARI GOLD: You know, the the point is not to be encouraging,

NEIL PEART: But not forceful about it. And you can get that kind of relation going where the kids feel like they have a choice, right. But at the same time they have a voice. You can’t buy that.

ARI GOLD: But it’s doesn’t always speak and

NEIL PEART: I am big Pentameter coming soon. But that that is the beautiful thing to say. Yeah, and I’ve been involved in with schools. And a lot of times what I’ll do is, of course, my warehouse gets packed with drums and cymbals and things people send me to try, and I feel bad about them going away. So I’ll find a school that needs them and send them over and they might all be mismatched samples that you know come from the factory or something like that, but it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter.

And I was able to put together like six drum sets just out of odds and sods and send them over to the school. So you can imagine what a difference that make because they had a drumming department of several dozen kids with two drum sets. So that’s frustrating too especially drum sounds quite elaborate to have but if obviously piano you know, for a family to afford a piano. So if that can be done through the school or encouraging different instruments not making the kids think you have to play this instrument that you Hey, find find something you like

ARI GOLD: a lot of parents who want their kids to be into music or start pushing them towards being prodigies. The point is not to make a prodigy The point is to to connect a kid with the joy of music and trusting that that is going to affect Kids choices whether or not they ever play music again,

NEIL PEART: absolutely not. And not to become a professional musician. I know so many people who are beloved amateurs, true amateurs, lovers of music in that way, and work, whatever they have to do to make a living, but play part time in cover bands and weekends, and get all the joy of music. Without the professional responsibilities, I suppose like that does equate to sports, people who love to play baseball or hockey can keep playing, you know, you don’t need to become a professional in music. Likewise, it enriches your life, because it enriches your understanding.

For some people, music can be a solace, a place to go when you’re sad. You know, a lot of people take refuge in music. And yeah, I’ve done that myself. If you’re feeling alone, the one song you just play over and over again, that consoles you. So it can be even as simple as that, but the inspiration of it too. And like you talked about the physical response to music, the adrenaline, glandular response in music to all that can be part of a young person’s knowledge. And it’s like getting an appreciation of any art really, it’s gonna enrich your whole life, it doesn’t mean you have to grow up to be a painter.

ARI GOLD: Right? Exactly. Well, that’s what a lot of parents or schools end up thinking is like, well, we need to make scientists so we’re cutting, you know, we’re gonna cut the budget somewhere. So let’s cut the music budget because we don’t need to make more musicians. That’s not the point. The point of music in schools is to create a whole person that can make a choice to be a scientist,

NEIL PEART: you know what they’re not supposed to be. They’re supposed to be teaching them how to learn in a lot of ways. And I equate it to like high school English, certain novels. And Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar was ruined for me forever dissecting by your teacher. Yeah. Because you have a certain novels were too they you because you have to go that deep into all that stuff. And then that just teaches you to learn and teaches you the next time you can read it on your own.

And now they’re all the other Shakespeare plays. I really love what, just that one was ruined, and, and certain novels were ruined. But what a valuable exchange, you know, yes, I had to just dissect that one, to death for months, and learn all this stuff that seemed kind of boring, and pointless to me at the time. But it became a foundation like music can become that, well, it enriches you, as a person, like you said, your character, your sensibility is forever, Richard, by that

ARI GOLD: talk about language, actually, that kids who learn multiple languages at a young age become much more able to take on third, fourth, fifth languages later on. And I think music has a similar effect on development. For me, you know, taking this idea of someone who was denied music, and turning it into the source for a movie, for me does have a spiritual significance because A, there are a lot of people out there who were denied music, but in a deeper level, everyone feels that they’re denied something in life.

And so much of what drives people in a way that I think is problematic spiritually is this idea that there is something out there that they need to make them complete. And this is a movie about somebody who learns that the heartbeat is the center of everything. The heartbeat is where music comes from. The heartbeat is where rhythm comes from. The heartbeat is where drums come from. And he has the drum dimension breathing. Breathing comes from breathing is important, too. It’s true. It’s true. I recommend it.

Breathing is impossibly for me air drumming is a is a way of saying it’s sort of a parable about what you can do with nothing.

NEIL PEART: Yeah, it would be the memorable phrase that our uses is marched to the beat of your own drum, even if you don’t have one. Yeah.

ARI GOLD: So it’s a it’s a cautionary tale, but I guess what about what happens if you don’t have something but it also is maybe telling people that tale of redemption? Yes, you can find the drums within yourself. But how much sweeter if a kid can get the drums for real?

NEIL PEART: So now we’re going to go into the drum channel studio, and we’re going to change how to do a

ARI GOLD: special guest that’s going to be coming from Yeah, from

NEIL PEART: The star of Adventures of Power. And we’re gonna have a duet of drums and air.

This interview originally appeared on Hotsticks.fm.

See more about Neil Peart on the official site for Adventures of Power, the world's greatest (and only) Air Drum Movie!

Enjoyed this session? Explore more from the Interviews Archive.

We talk about his transition from the early heavy metal of Dust to the ‘onslaught’ of punk rock, the raw stamina required to play 45 songs a night, and the secret behind his family’s famous pasta sauce. Marky is a true original, and this conversation captures the no-nonsense, high-octane spirit that defined an entire era of New York music.”

The Heartbeat of Punk Rock

Playing with Marky Ramone is like being deposited onto a train traveling 150 miles per hour—you either keep up or you fall off. Marky breaks down the transition from the early heavy metal of Dust to the “onslaught” of The Ramones. We talk about the raw stamina required to play 45 songs a night and the “1, 2, 3, 4” count-off that defined an entire era of New York music.

Stamina and Sauce

Beyond the kit, we get into the survival instincts of a musician who played 1,700 shows and still maintains that relentless energy today. Marky is a true original, and this conversation captures the no-nonsense, high-octane spirit of his 15-year tenure with the band. Plus, we finally get the story behind his family’s famous pasta sauce.

Watch video version here:

RAW TRANSCRIPT (Pardon the old-school glitches):

ARI GOLD: So, I’m here with the man, the legend, the heartbeat of the greatest punk rock band that ever walked the face of the Earth—and certainly the greatest that ever walked the streets of Forest Hills. Marky Ramone, thank you for doing this.

MARKY RAMONE: Hey, Ari. Good to be here. And hey, I saw the movie, Adventures of Power. You got some moves, kid. You got some moves.

ARI GOLD: (Laughs) Coming from you, that is the ultimate validation. Because in the movie, Power is trying to find his way to the “Drum Dimension,” and the Ramones are basically the gatekeepers of that dimension. It’s about that 1-2-3-4, high-speed, no-nonsense rhythm. When you joined the band, was it a shock to the system, or were you already living at that tempo?

MARKY RAMONE: Look, I came from Brooklyn. I was in Dust, I was with Richard Hell and the Voidoids. I was used to playing hard. But with the Ramones, it wasn’t just about being hard, it was about being consistent. It was a machine. You couldn’t let up. If you let up for a second, the whole thing would collapse like a house of cards. Joey, Dee Dee, Johnny—they were all leaning on that snare drum. I had to be the anchor.

ARI GOLD: The anchor! And it’s all downstrokes, right? Johnny was famous for that downstroke guitar style, but you—your right hand on the hi-hat—that’s some Olympic-level athleticism. People air drum to “Blitzkrieg Bop” and they think it’s easy because it’s simple, but it’s the hardest thing in the world to keep that pace for a whole set.

MARKY RAMONE: It’s the endurance. People don’t realize. They see me sitting there, I look relaxed, maybe I got a little bit of a smirk on my face, but underneath the kit, my legs are pumping like I’m running a marathon. And the arms... you gotta have the snap. You can’t be stiff. If you’re stiff, you break. You gotta be like a whip. That’s what I tell kids: don’t just hit the drum, whip the drum.

ARI GOLD: Whip the drum. I love that. Now, in Adventures of Power, we talk about “The Quest.” Power has to go from the mines of New Mexico to the streets of Newark to find his soul. When you were starting out in the New York scene—CBGBs, Max’s Kansas City—did it feel like a quest, or did it just feel like you were trying to pay the rent?

MARKY RAMONE: (Laughs) It was a quest to pay the rent! But no, we knew something was happening. You could feel the energy in the air. It was dirty, it was loud, and it was ours. Nobody wanted us on the radio, nobody wanted us in the fancy clubs, so we made our own world. That’s what punk is. If they don’t give you a seat at the table, you build your own table. Or in your case, you air drum at the table.

ARI GOLD: Exactly! You don’t even need the table! You just need the air! Marky, you’ve seen it all—the hall of fame, the world tours, the leather jackets. What’s the secret to staying “Power-ful” after all these years?

MARKY RAMONE: You gotta stay hungry. And you gotta keep your ears open. And hey, maybe a little bit of my pasta sauce doesn’t hurt either. Keeps the blood moving.

ARI GOLD: (Laughs) Marky’s Brooklyn’s Own! I’ll drink some Benante’s Blend coffee, eat some Marky Ramone pasta sauce, and I’ll be ready to air drum for twenty-four hours straight.

MARKY RAMONE: There you go. Just don’t forget the 1-2-3-4.

ARI GOLD: Never. Marky, thank you.

MARKY RAMONE: Anytime, Ari. Keep it loud.

ARI GOLD: Hi,

MARKY RAMONE: we got it. How are you?

ARI GOLD: I’m good. I’m I’m in Berlin. Berlin.

MARKY RAMONE: Did you go to the church?

ARI GOLD: Which church?

MARKY RAMONE: Well at the bullets, that the bullet holes they left in that huge structure? It looks like it was it was bombarded.

ARI GOLD: Yes, yes, I have been to that before but not this not this trip. I was in this train. So it’s amazing. I have you no more recent.

MARKY RAMONE: It’s crazy, right that?

ARI GOLD: Well, I mean, Ukraine is, I was in the Vive, which is, you know, a fairly, fairly peaceful in the sense that they haven’t had a lot of violence there. But there was an air raid, and there was a missile strike right after I left, so it’s intense. It’s really intense.

MARKY RAMONE: So it’ll land. So

ARI GOLD: unfortunately, I think the Russian side doesn’t want to quit under any circumstance.

MARKY RAMONE: So it has a lot to do with pride. And yeah, to do with losing face. You know, it’s just that he’s a dictator. So he will he at any cost? He will continue.

ARI GOLD: Yeah. Yeah. So it’s, it’s tough. I mean, you know, I actually, the one of the things that I filmed when I was in Ukraine was the, the loveth Symphony Orchestra, which has become a eight center. So I watched the orchestra and was all the second string musicians because I guess the first string dudes who are carrying guns instead of islands right now. And they were playing Mozart’s Requiem for an auditorium filled with boxes, that were all going to the front. And so they had a Ukrainian Orthodox priests, blessing, the medical supplies, and this second symphony orchestra is playing for this empty auditorium playing the Requiem. And it was such a powerful thing we just stumbled in, we were going to interview the orchestra director. And she said, Oh, well, the rehearsing right now. And we walk in, and it’s this incredible music. And, and, and that’s it was sort of like the the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark. I mean, just piles and piles and piles and piles of boxes. All going, I think, to the east, where, where there’s a lot more trouble. So

MARKY RAMONE: America is standing up equipment.

ARI GOLD: They’re sending equipment and medical supplies. Yeah. So the orchestra is collecting medical supplies to send send out, right. Yeah,

MARKY RAMONE: the only you know, I mean, without without that, that being a war in the world. I mean, why did that guy have to do that? You know what I mean? It’s like, I know, he wants to expand his land. And

ARI GOLD: yeah, I mean, that’s the obvious reason to me, I have some Russian friends that I tried to get what the take is over there and try to understand what the propaganda is saying. And, yeah, I didn’t know if we want to keep talking about Ukraine. I mean, it’s inspiring.

MARKY RAMONE: It is a subject that people who don’t know don’t care should know about. So let’s move on to Well,

ARI GOLD: I have links on my, on my Instagram here, if anyone wants to donate, I have all kinds of links there. Helping people get their money in crypto, and you can send money and support you all the time. And, and soon I will have a link up for the live orchestra which is, you know, keeping musicians alive, keeping musicians employed, and sending medical supplies to the front. So it’s it’s pretty crazy, pretty crazy experience and a lot of friends from Ukraine, who are now in other places, Berlin. I just hung out with some last night. And some have gone to Paris and Warsaw

MARKY RAMONE: being accepted through all being accepted into the country. Yeah, actually

ARI GOLD: what I heard last night, a friend who she and her parents got in the car within hours for the first missile strikes. And they were shocked because there was no cell phone service for the last two days. It was like a two day line to get out. And so they finally walked across the border, not knowing what the world’s reaction was. And they saw the signs from people from different countries. He’s basically saying, you know, if you want to come to Germany, come with me and I’ll help you. You want to come to Poland come with me and I’ll help you. You want to come to Romania? There are all these people who come to the border to volunteer and help out. And we’re here. So,

MARKY RAMONE: All right, well, let’s get let’s go on the next topic.

ARI GOLD: Yeah, I mean, it’ll maybe it’ll keep coming up but well, so Marky and I I’m a filmmaker and musician once in a while Mark and I met because my, my band which doesn’t exist anymore, called the honey brothers with Adrian Grenier was playing the drums for us. And I guess he knew us somehow. But we ended up a lot of fun. We played a show with you and I got to play a couple remote. I think, three Ramones songs, I got to play you with you playing drums and we played with songs that were but three of them. I know blitzkrieg bop was one and I want to be sedated was one and can’t remember what the other one was. But so I learned them off on ukulele, electric ukulele. And you kicked Adrian off the drums and took your proper seat. And we just I remember the feeling was like, you know, I played a lot of music before. Playing those songs felt like being deposited onto a train that’s already going 150 miles an hour, like you’re standing still. And then just suddenly, it’s like, you know, unbelievable. power and speed. And like it just it felt like I mean, my experience playing and I was like, Man, you wouldn’t need drugs. If you’re playing this music.

MARKY RAMONE: onslaught of energy and we I do that with my I play 45 songs like that throughout the world. So the Ramones did 33 But what it intended to be the sound was just just to be an onslaught of energy. That’s really what the intention was in the beginning.

ARI GOLD: Right? Well, music is in your blood. I mean, you I was amazed when I read your autobiography to find out that your was it your grandfather, who was cooking at the Copa?

MARKY RAMONE: Did I call around the 21? Club?

ARI GOLD: Okay. I mean, that’s amazing, you know, just the sense that you kind of inherited, maybe through him, I’m always fascinating. My films always have to do with like ancestry. And there’s some like, you know, historical echo in someone’s life. And the idea of him like cooking in the 21, the Copa like, when, who were the artists who were playing when

MARKY RAMONE: 40s and 50s, Humphrey Bogart, obviously, the mob, you know, people would would walk in and eat dinner there. You’d name it the movie stars of the day. Because it was a very popular club at the time. And so was the 21. Club.

ARI GOLD: What was that? What kind of artists did they have their

MARKY RAMONE: 21 Club? Anybody that was famous? Anybody and the same thing with the cult, but you’d have like, you’d have X Nat King Cole, you’d have Sam Cooke. You’d have Tony Bennett, you’d have Sammy Davis, you’d have you’d have a Martin D. Martin, Jerry Lewis, you’d have you know, the light of day, you have like the temptations or let’s see who else

ARI GOLD: you think your stories about that have an influence on you. Get that you think your grandfather’s story of him being in

MARKY RAMONE: his connection? Yeah. Well, he had on me was the sauce was the tomato sauce that I put together. I used to watch him as a little boy at my grandma’s house. Cook for the family. Yeah, you come over there. Hello, Hello, grandpa, grandma, and we go there. And he’d be cooking because that was his specialty. You know. So the pastor saw us that he would make some times they would watch and make then I tried it. First it was too lumpy, too watery, too salty. Eventually, I got it. And we bottled it up and added that came a truck food truck that went around the city and then ended up in all the grocery stores, you know, the food markets, but the problem was that in Whole Foods, such as mark in the mountains, Brooklyn zone and Whole Foods, they wanted to know where it originated. So obviously See, you know, the plant wasn’t here it was in Pennsylvania. So they didn’t want it in the store because it wasn’t made in Pennsylvania and it said Mokuba mountains Brooklyn zone. So I didn’t care, you know, I mean, you know, then then after a while it got too, too overwhelming. So then I had to, you know, I had to say, what, what am I doing? I have too much in the place. So I didn’t saw I didn’t do the radio shows. So I just, I just let it go. But it was fun while it lasted.

ARI GOLD: But so do you have? Do you have you make the sauce? Still? I assume?

MARKY RAMONE: Still? No, no?

ARI GOLD: No, I mean, you make it at home. Yeah, at

MARKY RAMONE: home? I do. My wife helps. Yeah, well, even though I’m a better cook.

ARI GOLD: I didn’t say it. I well, so. I mean, there’s, you know, I obviously there’s a lot of people on here probably going to want to hear from our own stories. But I’m like, sort of fascinated by how you developed into, you know, the life before the room. And the fact that you played in, it was some metal band before. Word metal when dust was around.

MARKY RAMONE: Well, the week we started in 70. We recorded off our stones 70, sort of Black Sabbath. But England was ahead of America about six months with heavy metal. But in America, though, there was no metal bands. So we were three Simpson Brooklyn, we were still in high school. And that might have been three or four other heavy metal bands through. But we were part of that origin beginning so you had what did you really have in America, you could count it on your fingers. You had dust Mountain was kind of considered metal. You had blue chia, which was kind of metal, but it was more more or less like a hard rock band. So I mean, we we were definitely ahead of our times. But I we had to break up I had to finish school. My father told me you better and my guitarist went on to produce the first two kiss albums at 20 years old. And Kenny Aronson, bass player who I also grew up in Brooklyn, started playing with stories I started playing with as a sideman John Jett, Billy Idol, Bob Dylan. So I have three guys. So Brooklyn ended up being pretty successful in the music business at that time. I decided to just start hanging out cvgs after dusk broke up. So that’s when I just started getting into the policy. When did when did it open? Yeah. 7475 Okay. To to, to music like punk rock, le crystal, Leona, let us play that they didn’t want to play punk rock and other venues at the time because it was new. And to some people it was kind of like a little offensive with the leather jackets, the overall gangs. But at the time, this guy was big and soft rock was big. And you know, he goes on I didn’t you know, I don’t care. But a lot of like I said a lot of venues were reluctant to play our genre music. So there weren’t that many places to play Max’s Kansas City, which was another club in New York. And she

ARI GOLD: had done a lot there in the late 60s. Right. And Maximus. Oh, yeah. There

MARKY RAMONE: were a lot of there were a lot of 60s they vans used to hang out there. I was too young. Where was Max’s was in near 14th Street. 14th Street and Park Avenue. Okay. I I mean, that of the bands that that that hung out there. You had, you know, the dogs you had Jimi Hendrix Led Zeppelin. You had all these 60s bands that started in the 60s that would hang out there then eventually, of course, you’d have Andy Warhol. You have Jan County, and then you’d have David Bowie will read and all these other people from from England, and Alice Cooper would hang out there. So it was it was a combination of people from that era. And then the punk scene came in. And then you have the Ramones, you had television you know talking heads that Blondie and And then New York Dolls would be hanging out there too. So, you know, depending on what decade and era populated the

ARI GOLD: was the Fillmore East still around by that point or had it closed.

MARKY RAMONE: So more closed, I think in 7071. When I was about 1314, I knew a Atia who work there. And he would, we would wait until the band’s finished the soundtracks, and we would go up on the stage and use their equipment. Really? Yeah, so we did that. Was that?

ARI GOLD: Well, you pretending to be roadies, if anyone looked at you like

MARKY RAMONE: he was an usher. And I guess he had some sway. And, you know, the band’s went back to the hotel rooms. And I guess the role is one hour to look around the clock. And we were able to do that. And yeah, so more was still active. I think the 71 and

ARI GOLD: Bill Graham,

MARKY RAMONE: that haven’t made them yet. I know. Okay, it was a nice guy quiet.

ARI GOLD: When? Do you know my mother died in the helicopter crash with him?

MARKY RAMONE: I didn’t know that. Sorry. No,

ARI GOLD: that was my childhood.

MARKY RAMONE: I don’t know why they took off like that.

ARI GOLD: Yeah, I’m actually my third feature film is documentary, which is about the accident. And it’s about the my mother and this kind of psychology look, trying to analyze her psychology as to why such a smart and brilliant woman would get into a helicopter in a rainstorm. When she apparently at the whole concert that they were at before that. She was saying to everyone registered, they were at a Huey Lewis concert, which I still find shocking, but that’s a whole other subject. But anyway, they were trying to convince pew Lewis to like, play some benefits. So they went and my mother was terrified. And she talked about the ride over being terrifying and, and, and so everyone in the band came out to the parking lot and said to my mom, like, you got you don’t want to get that helicopter. You’ve been saying so for two hours, we’ll drive you hot. And then Bill said something to my mom, and she got in. So I look at the question of, you know, fatal flaws and the people’s illusion of invincibility which is I think what Bill had having survived the Holocaust, and dented stadium rock. I mean, incredible life and then my mom, sort of in the aura of that rock’n’roll energy. Somehow she couldn’t say no to it. You know, almost like a groupie. I hate to say that about my mom. But you know,

MARKY RAMONE: Well, did. She like being around bands and seeing how, how things worked. Thing is that though high tension wires around, and unfortunately, it just seemed like a very Where did they take off from?

ARI GOLD: They took off from the Concord pavilion, which is the East Bay, San Francisco, and they were heading to Novato, which has a kind of like a small plane airport. And they were following highway 37, which is on the north part of the term Cisco Bay, along the marsh, and probably using the road for guidance, because the helicopter was not rated for instruments. So he didn’t have radars using sight and couldn’t see anything apparently that night.

MARKY RAMONE: So they had to make it that night to that show the next day to do what they had to do. Waited.

ARI GOLD: This is on the way back from the show. They were just going home that’s going on home and and, you know, it would have taken 25 minutes longer to draw up.

MARKY RAMONE: Yeah, I think that’s what happens. That’s what happens, you know,

ARI GOLD: not to bring up Ukraine again, but I’m gonna bring up Ukraine again, briefly, you know, all the pain that these people have in the right now and I, you know, I’ve been making in this movie about my mom, and it’s, you know, huge amount of work to work on a movie, right? You know, and definitely thinking about every family. You know, we’re talking about 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of families of people who are dealing with the kind of loss that I know that my family dealt with, with you know, one death and you just think about a whole country that is having, you know, hundreds of 1000s of people or have someone close to them who have died there for nothing. It’s just anyway, I was thinking about it while I was filming in Ukraine a couple days ago, just this that I’m making a whole movie about the Ricochet of one death and like all we’re creating so much more pain In the world, anyway. Not a very Ramones like, part of the conversation. Fans can can handle it. Right? We can. It’s good to like, what?

MARKY RAMONE: It’s good to one form. Yeah. You know, you know if you have that opportunity to let people know what’s really, really going on. Yeah. Because so much stuff out there that they just don’t believe you know? Yeah. Anyway, let’s get back to the music.

ARI GOLD: Let’s get back to music. You want to talk about Ramones. I mean, we can talk about Well, I

MARKY RAMONE: was at the bar. I just finished a tour with Richard helm avoids with a clash. And in England in October, September, October of 7719 77. And when we got back, which he didn’t want to tour anymore, and Tommy Ramone was in the band for three, three and a half years, did three albums, but he didn’t want to play anymore. He just wanted to produce. And he wanted to be able to smoke cigarettes and being told not to be smoked cigarettes. So he wanted to keep the sanity. Anyway, I was very happy that is producing the next style on that we’ve been doing road to ruin. And the first song I did was I wanted to be sedated with them at media Sound Studios. In 1978 springtime we recorded it, I got a tape of their rehearsal, other songs that I add a record and a live and alive, cassette, a live show on a cassette of the show with the album, which was 40 songs, 42 songs. And I had to learn all that on a drum pad with headphones on on a boombox in two weeks. So I was gone four to five hours a day, because I wanted to be in the touring, respectable, great, original band that started the whole thing. So I was happy to be asked, and to make it more official and legitimate. Tommy and Johnny Ramone asked me to join the band. So I went to a rehearsal. And we did three, four songs. And it worked out.

ARI GOLD: I mean, I there’s the way you got into that band is so peaceful, you know, the fact that you were invited by the drummer himself. And then he you know, he was like Danny said, I mean, that’s that. That is definitely someone handing you have the baton, or the sticks. And then yeah, you got to play on actually, the second song that I learned on ukulele is I want to be sedated. So you know, there you go. three chords,

MARKY RAMONE: three chords simple little one note lead. And it ended up becoming a double platinum single

ARI GOLD: Yeah, I

MARKY RAMONE: I didn’t think it would in the beginning because of the lyrical content I don’t think a lot of DJs at the time wanted to play songs. I wanted to be sedated or blitzkrieg bop you know, the the lyrical content is debatable whether it was negative or positive or it would make people think oh, maybe I want to be sedated today. But that was the whole idea that was fly a lot of people just can’t handle the fact that they want to have to fly go through the rigors of of going through the metal detector and then having to get on the plane.

ARI GOLD: That was the inspiration for it really,

MARKY RAMONE: that was you know, a joey wrote the saw and you know, it was his experiences of flying and then having to walk through the gate and then having to deal with the tickets that happen. You know, it could create a certain stress and anxiety. So, a lot of people get their guard up ah, before they get on the plane. They have a few drinks. So on the plane, they order a few drinks and next thing you look around or a lot of them is sleeping, which is probably the end game for being involved with something like that.

ARI GOLD: Well, I think the reason I never knew I had anything to do with flying, but to me, it’s the lyrically is so it’s so punk because it’s this like high energy song. Asking to be low,

MARKY RAMONE: so our mid tempo song, okay,

ARI GOLD: but it’s not like a super fast song, but it’s super high energy and livery. It’s You know, it’s craving the opposite and that contrast of hearing that lyric and hearing that like power is is kind of funny. You know the funniness is actually what makes it charming. It doesn’t it’s not like death metal that might sound like it’s actually asking you to sedate yourself. You know,

MARKY RAMONE: you notice the song was short, it had chorus, it had a bridge, it had verses. And the chorus is very memorable. And to me, that’s what a song is about short and sweet, memorable chorus a cool intro and a cool ending. And that’s that’s as far as I’m concerned. There’s not enough of that now. Well,

ARI GOLD: there isn’t enough of that now but I mean, that’s interesting you say it because like when you know the dust was experimental in terms of its song craft right? And you know, metal in general is and, you know, have you completely become a punk weary anything longer than two minutes and 20 seconds seems like a ponderous epic or, or, you know, where’s your where’s your tastes right now?

MARKY RAMONE: Well, the thing is that, because I got the radio shows, I try to look for new stuff. But then I then I listen. And then I say the sounds like this. This was taken from that and everybody borrows and gives back. But a lot of it was very blatant. But that’s why I like to go back. Because I like all kinds of genres of music. I like to go back to Little Richard Chuck Berry, Joey Loise. Bone deadly Everly Brothers. And those songs are like two minutes, 10 seconds, 15 seconds, then of course, the British invasion, the Beatles, The Oh, the kings and all these bands that hits for two minutes to 52 minutes, 15 seconds. But as time went on, you had the prog rock and you had bands that had five songs on one album, one song was probably eight minutes long, a lot of self indulgence, but a lot of people like that, you know, it’s good, you know, it’s their choice. But we didn’t we just wanted to hear a great song that had a cool message and it quickly is a lot of people have short attention spans. So to play something short and sweet, we figured that would be enough. And as time went on, you know, we persevered and continue to stick to a formula. And that’s when all the you know, the the gold albums came in the Hall of Fame and the Grammy and the the MTV bobblehead. So a lot of people started picking up on us and a lot of bands in the 90 early 90s started punk bands because the Ramones the classroom, the pistols, like Green Day rancid, and they cited us as an effluence. So a lot of those bands whose fans wanted to know who their influences were realized that was the Ramones, The Clash, The pistols, the Buzzcocks? In the New York Dolls, so through that, we’ve got a lot of more interests.

ARI GOLD: And your influences. I mean, I know Beatles was a big, or at least that was your, like, birth moment, right? As a musician. Yeah, that right? Like a

MARKY RAMONE: lot of like a lot of other people I was asked to come from my mother to the mother to the living room with a TV was check this out and the Beatles on The Ed Sullivan Show. After that, I threw away well, I didn’t throw throw it away, gave away my toys. And I started putting together a drum set as a little boy banging on things, you know. So I started working when I was 1516 as a delivery boy for people in the area who needed prescription drugs. Because I did a lot of I did that. I delivered them a lot of code that they couldn’t walk to the drugstore, so I had to deliver the drugs. You know, anyway, I started putting together with a cheapo drum set. And eventually I did I had it set and I played along the hits of the day. And then I started a band with a friend of mine with two friends of mine and went to the same school over it. And we formed Deus. And that was it and we got signed to the same company the lovin spoonful was on, you know, all these all these great artists, and we did two albums 12 And Alice Cooper a lot. And then after that, like I said I had to finish school Oh, and

ARI GOLD: you know, that was that who said you had to finish school?

MARKY RAMONE: My parent my father? Yeah. I mean, you know, he keeps all for me to continue playing music, but you had to get that diploma on the wall.

ARI GOLD: Was that before you audition for the dolls? Or was that that was

MARKY RAMONE: for addition for the dolls? No, yeah, it was before, a couple of years before because belly and first drama die again in 7172 and 81 of an overdose. And I was 18. Around that time. 1718. So dust during that time, we was we were still together. 72 is when we broke up.

ARI GOLD: Okay. Do we talk? I mean, I’m curious. Also, people know that you were also in the Backstreet Boys, right?

MARKY RAMONE: Oh, Jack Wang, Cathy. Well, I know he weighing what was when at the time. And we he was very extreme. And a lot of clubs definitely didn’t want us to play. But we would play Max’s Kansas City and CBGBs and he took club. And then later on, two years later, I brought the tape to the guy who produced Deus, which was my guitar player, said there’s nothing I can do with Wang he’s too extreme, but his musics great singing was great. His writings great, but we were with main man. And main man loved us but wouldn’t sign us.

ARI GOLD: Because what’s the excuse me because Wayne was too out there

MARKY RAMONE: yet to go out there. And eventually, the Backstreet Boys I left because I knew it wouldn’t go any further. And that’s when I joined which should help and avoid always and we did the blank generation album. And you know, then we toyed with the clash and toured locally. And that was it. I just wanted to continue to learn he didn’t and that’s how the Ramones came about.

ARI GOLD: Yeah, so one door, one door closes another lot of doors. Yeah,

MARKY RAMONE: except for the bathroom and CBGBs

ARI GOLD: How did you get along with klatch?

MARKY RAMONE: Great guys. I mean, we, after the show he would hang out in the hotel lobbies walk around London at night with one of the clashes. Guitar techs, we would climb fire escapes, go up on the rubes and then go to another roof walk around. Look Look at London at night on top of rooftops come back downstairs go to sleep get up seven in the morning to travel to the next show the next city because it was all of England. You know not not Europe, it was England. So there were there were there was there was leads though as London there was. Let’s see what else. We’ve been playing Glasgow. So there was a place called Kent so that there were a lot of places to play. I can’t let rattle them off or fan. But we must have did 20 something 2530 shows together. So that was a lot of fun.

ARI GOLD: Yeah, i i It seems so fun to be able to do that. And I wonder how much for so many bands and a lot of musicians like the level of adrenaline and fun you get from that whether or not you’re on drugs, makes it hard to then have a regular life. I mean, how much is that true for? You know, for you at that time? It seems like

MARKY RAMONE: I wasn’t doing drugs. I was I was sampling the local breweries of the beers. I like to drink beer, occasionally have a few glasses of wine. And I enjoyed it. And it was because there was a camaraderie that evolved through that, you know, you have a few drains to get loose, you talk and you’re talking about musical influences with the with the guys and the clash, and all of that, especially with Joe Strummer and top of the drama really good guy.

ARI GOLD: Yeah. And he, by the way, wrote, I mean when the song that I you know, I was a kid when the first song I heard it was was laid in there. It was rock the Kasbah but topper hidden bits and so, I mean, he laid down all the tracks for that, I think other than the guitar one day in the studio, and then they Take them out of the band right after that was

MARKY RAMONE: it was a Trump it was it was basically a dance on company wanted the groups to start doing dance songs you know they wanted them to someone new wave. But the Ramones stuck to their guns. We did one song with Phil Spector. We did an album with Phil Spector. But the one song that came out of it was a foreign before song called baby I love you originally done by the run ads, and Phil thought it’d be a good idea to have one of his songs on the album. So we did it but at that point and 8283 a lot of bands. They ended up wanting to get into the dance 4444 On the floor scene.

ARI GOLD: Yeah. And that’s how blonde is harder glass came out to write that. Yeah, so Blondie had heard of glass the class had rock the Kasbah on said, No,

MARKY RAMONE: no way. Because you know, you do that, and then you go back to the original formula formula. A lot of people won’t accept it. Because they’ll call you a traitor or why did you do that? You should have stuck to your guns. But you know, I mean, once in a while people get this idea of let me try this. Let me try that. Let me try. You know, everyone’s creative. So if they if Blondie wanted to do a dance, so more power to him. I you know, I love the blues. I love jazz. I love the British invasion. I like I like Motown music. So I’m not stuck on one genre, you know?

ARI GOLD: But, so why would you then resist? You know, having a name? I can’t imagine Ramones disco song, obviously that would that Bob,

MARKY RAMONE: I wasn’t the only one in the band. Right? So I joined the band seven, eight. And their intention was to just just be very, very powerful, straight ahead for 4/16 notes, eighth notes. And that was the thing and now 2022 people thanked us for not changing, sticking to our guns. And I’m more proud of that than having a number one dance song.

ARI GOLD: Yeah. By the way, I’m getting some questions. I’m just noticing. I always forget to check this. Out. Liguria. Someone’s wondering about an event and lagree Are you playing in a place called Liguria? I don’t know what that means.

MARKY RAMONE: Can you maybe look up on a map where that is? Is it?

ARI GOLD: I’ll do? I’ll Google it. Someone tells me

MARKY RAMONE: I know I’m doing I know, I was asked to do something in Europe. And I said, you know, COVID is getting better. It’s disappearing kind of some of its common back a little, I figured I’d wait. I really didn’t want to tour anymore. I really wanted to stop. But my promoters said to me that a lot of this was brought up before COVID and that there was a lot of interest from local promoters there. So I said, alright, you know, let’s let’s try it, that COVID King. So now a lot of these promoters want me back the makeup, the show is that they promoted. And I understand that, you know, and I don’t want want them to lose any money or any of their reputation as a as a as a as a cool venue to play or an outdoor festival. So I told them, I would do it that we do it in. I think it starts in the summer floor. And in the meantime, I just did Lollapalooza from Chile. I like four countries and South America.

ARI GOLD: Yeah, you gotta was in South America. Yeah, did

MARKY RAMONE: Chile, sort of the Foo Fighters we played together. And then the next thing I knew, Taylor Hawkins, just just passed away died from, I guess, 10 different prescription drugs and one and one body, which really just can’t handle it. So, you know, I don’t want to saw so but I’ve been through it with my alcohol abuse that I had when I was in my late 20s, early 30s. You know, it all leads up to abusing your body. And then, you know,

ARI GOLD: once you think about why are you a survivor I mean, what’s So, what is it like? Or is there some will to not go down the road. Like I

Marky Ramone: Marky Ramone said, I like to drink but but I stopped when I, I stopped the 35 years ago. And I continue to play on my own in the studio when I’m not with the band. I play for two hours, four times a week. I ride my bike an hour a day when you try to burn seven 800 calories. That’s basically it. You know, send you gotta watch what you eat, too, you know? Thoughts? What’s that?

Ari Gold: Only your thoughts all the time? Oh, boy,

Marky Ramone: I would eat it with potato chips, pretzels. And then I know that’s not a good idea. So yeah, watch what I eat. Make sure you eat a lot of salads, vegetables, fruits, you know,

Ari Gold: where do you bike? Do you bite on a

Marky Ramone: bike, my, my place here in DUMBO, there’s a park there. So I go there. And I go, you know, back and forth on the trail. And I have a rogue bike in my other room here that I go on. And I think it’s tough. I tried to maintain a certain speed for like, on that for an hour and 10 minutes. And that’s about 900 950 calories that

Ari Gold: I was just filming in Brazil doing a project and when I get off the ground that’s all about street biking. And I was happy to know that you in addition to being a cyclist now that you are a bike messenger, right? Okay. That was one of your gigs.

Marky Ramone: I had to do it. After I went after Joliet said to me, Mark, you need help we want we want you to go away and straighten up and he was right. It was he to me a dee dee he was at a heroin problem. But obviously, he was the songwriter. And he was one of the guys that helped create the band. So I had a going you know, it was the best phone call I ever had. Because it made me realize that let me do the right thing. So I went to rehab twice, got straight. And then I got back in the band four years later. It took a while one of the jobs I did have through my psychiatrists at the rehab AB suggested was do something different, do something every day job, do something that will keep you physically active. Do something that a lot you can meet different kinds of people. So being a messenger was good because I met all different kinds of people. I was able to to ride eight to nine hours a day. Being a messenger, you’d have to get there at six in the morning. And you’ll leave around five 530 at night.

Ari Gold: And will you bring all over Manhattan or was it all over

Marky Ramone: Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, right. And then one day I got another job offer through a friend to put up wrought iron gates on Krakow houses. Because in the 80s Those things were things were they were big. So we had to I guess the city had to shut them down. So there I was with the selling torch and the goggle over the face, putting up gates to stop to stop those buildings from being the main source of crack. So I did that. And then I was asked to come back to the Ramones, Clem bar good friend of mine drummer blondie. Blondie and tried to do two shows with them. didn’t cut it. Good and Blondie, but not a Ramones drama. So

Ari Gold: fight or what? What his touch was lighter than they needed or,

Marky Ramone: well, he couldn’t do the the eighth notes that I do. And that Tommy did. But God and Blondie I’ll never you know, I mean, you know, he tried and I I understood the situation you just can’t adapt to something that you he just can’t do. So he continued playing with Blondie, go, and I ended up getting the call and I went down and I gotten the band again. And I stayed with them for another nine years.

Ari Gold: Yeah, not something like 2000 shows right?

Marky Ramone: 1700

Ari Gold: Okay. A lot of shows a lot. Why do you think what would happen if you joined blondie? Do you think there’s something he can do that you can’t?

Marky Ramone: Well On the basically is it’s basically like a girl rock band. And eventually the dance stuff with the final floor that starts easy to play. But you would that, like I did with Richard Hal after dusk, two different styles. I’m not saying there are things that Clem does that I can do that I can’t do, probably just things that I can’t do. But then again, Clem can’t do what I can do. Everyone has a style, everyone has a different style, so be a buddy. I don’t like to compare, because we’re all different. And one guy might be great as a jazz drummer, but you might not be good as a rock drummer. That might be a blues drama who’s not great or good as a punk drama. So it all depends on the individual.

Ari Gold: Is there anyone in the you know, new crop of bands that you like or other other bands that you listen to now that are coming out right now?

Marky Ramone: Well, I there’s a good band that a friend of mine insists that I listen to the interrupters you know, girl, lead singer, female lead singer, which is great. They’ve got and, and I still like a lot of us and now laws Fredrickson from rancid put out a solo album. And it’s you know, he’s doing some good things on his own. So there’s a lot of bands that individuals of those groups that are coming out on their own. So I’m waiting to see what a lot of these band members are going to put out after this COVID situation because a lot of these musicians that time to develop what they wanted to do as individuals Yeah. COVID Six situation. So you know, if you look look a little and you give it time, and listen, there’s some there’s some stuff out there, that’s okay.

Ari Gold: And you’re going on tour, doing spoken word or some Magista toe

Marky Ramone: in Boston and Connecticut. Yeah, and Ireland is two weeks from now. And then I’m doing Long Island and Rhode Island. And then I might want to do a little more. And then the tourists thought. So you know that that’s, I enjoy spoken word. Why? Because you’re running an environment of like, say eight 900 capacity. You’re close with the big shows I did just recently 30 40,000 people. And I did that with the amounts to the US festival, there was I think 100 and some 1000. That day we played at, you know, towards the middle of us set now when we walked on the towards the middle. So the audiences got bigger. So I’m very happy to know that I’m going to play a venue of eight 900 capacity. Because you’re closer, you engage more, you have more of a one on one. A huge show. You’re not really in cottony and there’s no contact, right, except the mass of people, which was great. But I think every venue you play, you learn something of how to deal with the room, how to deal with the size. Plus what happened was during Lollapalooza in Chile, when I displayed that I didn’t play for two and a half years. So you walk out on that stage in front of a multitude of people. It was very overwhelming, but like riding a bike, it comes back. So that’s what I had to confront. After two and a half years of not playing. So that was a little unusual.

Ari Gold: Yeah, I can imagine like, alright, I can barely imagine but playing to, you know, 50,000 people or more it, it sounds terrifying in the sense that you can’t see anyone you can’t connect your way to way it’s just this mass. But yes, so that everyone’s looking at you. So

Marky Ramone: are they are you I mean, we have two eyeballs. So if you have 50,000 people as 100,000 eyeballs looking at you, which is great. I mean, we were very grateful for the fans that we have we’ve had and still have, but it’s just a different environment. That could be slam dancing is always slammed in some Zoe’s which I consider a contact sport. There’s a lot of contact sports, it’s football, soccer. There’s so many things, but slam dancing to me is like a sport. You know, you’re getting rid of all your angst but you’re not really hurting anybody this banging until we charge it He might go home and have a few bruises.

Ari Gold: They’re friendly. The first time I had a real like slam dancing was at the Cow Palace in San Francisco to Metallica. And I was like young I felt like it was younger than the other like metal fans and, and I went into the pit was a huge, huge pit we’re talking about like one of those giant ones that’s like two boys. And I got knocked over at one point. And you know, being my first like big metal show, I was scared. I was kind of scared of metal heads right? And as soon as I hit the ground, there were four beefy guys squatted stood with the arms out on either side to create a shield for me so I could stand up again he’s for for strangers, like boom like it like white blood cells around like an attacked whenever they texted me one of them kind of helped me up and then immediately we’re back in this back in the pit. It was really beautiful. And it made me like from then on I was like oh all the anger of metal you know it’s like whatever I was young man obviously liked it but get rid of it. Immediately. I was like, Oh, this is all about love. This is baby music

Marky Ramone: that a metal heads that I met a nice guys. They really are, you know, a lot of the punk guys and met the nice guys but some aren’t. You know, they’re just very, they feel they got to put on this and when when they’re when I’m near a mom, so I better act punk. You know, what do you mean, they got to put on the punk act.

Ari Gold: But what’s the most ridiculous thing someone’s done to you to? To prove that they’re punk?

Marky Ramone: You’re not Johnny rock? What? Rock? Yeah. Big. So you know we were at a we were at a situation in LA. And you know, he just started being very negative. Oh, you know from romance, Lauren, Tom calm, just a heavy metal reject. You know, the guy had too much that you couldn’t handle is that his alcohol. And then he stopped and then I just said to him, Johnny, for less than four Richard Hal, your puppet master Malcolm McLaren. And the New York Dolls and Richard hell, you’d be selling fish and chips somewhere. You know. So you know, cut, cut your baby crap. You talk to talk and never walk the walk. I know, you want sensationalism at this moment? You know, I was gonna say it and learn how to handle the Ilica. But you know, I just said, This guy is too high. So I didn’t continue and he started like coming near me. And I was hoping you would.

Ari Gold: Because you were sober. And you knew you would be on the clock. And

Marky Ramone: I? Yeah, I mean, you know, I kind of felt bad for the guy because obviously to me, when I saw I had a drinking problem. And so did I long time before that, and I understood. Maybe the alcohol was just doing the talk.

Ari Gold: Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. Have you seen him again since then?

Marky Ramone: No, I don’t I don’t care to associate myself with the only guy like in the pistols is the drama and Glen Matlock where my blackmail Matlock wrote all the songs and he’s a great guy and, and I always wish them luck. And we always run into each other. He’s really good guy. You know,

Ari Gold: I’m glad you’re able to dish out that story.

Marky Ramone: thought that that, you know, kind of been like a reasonable logical panel. But the guy interrupted everybody. He won’t let anybody talk. And I was the only one up there doing talking with them. So I guess it was a Sex Pistols are a mom, you know, going head to head. But again, I just didn’t want to continue because he was drunk.

Ari Gold: Yeah, yeah. Okay. In terms of like, pop punk. Well, how does it How does it feel when you hear the words pop and pumped together? And, you know, other than top? Yeah. Pop? Or pop and park? Yeah. I mean, can you look at your guy? No, I’m just asking you if it makes any sense to you musically?

Marky Ramone: Well, I mean, you know, what do you call pop to me type of songs that are memorable at choruses. Fun lyrics, and which, which is part of what the Romans did. Same thing with the Beatles pop today. It could be described differently then it was everything changes. That’s life. But that’s what I consider pop. Bands like come out with a song with like even the who I can see for miles that kings you really got me all day and all the night. You had the Beatles help. Sergeant Pepper was that pop? I think it’s pop. Yeah. Yeah. You know? So depends on what era you find punk. And what backs up the term punk at that moment?

Ari Gold: Well then yeah what backs up for me you know a lot of what’s called pop punk now is loud and they are playing fast. But there’s something about the attitude. And maybe I’m a snob I don’t know, there’s something about the attitude of a lot of what’s called pop punk, where it seems like there’s sneering at like their dad’s girlfriend or something. But they’re not actually there’s something about it that doesn’t have a rawness even though it’s loud and they’re screaming. And I’m not going to name names necessarily, but like that kind of mute the music that’s called pop punk that comes out that I’m sure a lot of these people cite you as an influence. I’m like, well, they’re not listening well.

Marky Ramone: Well, you know, you can’t, you know, to, to be like a band like the Ramones, or the clash, or the dolls, it was a different time. Things were a lot tougher on Rafa and you know, the, the atmosphere of the cities are different. So you can put that towards your music. And plus it was analog the recordings it wasn’t the digital, I feel a lot of punk pop or punk bands when they when they go digital. It takes away from the rawness and dirt. The punk ethos, Ethel’s whatever you want to call it, and my opinion I think when a punk band I think a lot of that happened because the COVID How can one band be together if you don’t be here you have a different state or you know what I mean? So they recorded on you know, the computer and everything and they downloaded this stuff, and that was their results. But there’s nothing like a band in one room recording on analog and that should be the way punk my opinion should be recorded. But no, we have choices you have digital and you have analog. So each goes on

Ari Gold: I mean, I think that’s true. I think the really the thing that I haven’t heard anyone say before people talk about the fact that you know you guys were influenced by you weren’t influenced by punk because punk didn’t exist so you find all these other things by by pop by Beatles by the WHO by jazz by you know nascent metal and

Marky Ramone: well there were there were bands called Go garage rock, like the Stooges MC five if I guess you know that that was the term they used for bands like that. The Ramones solidified it yeah you know we we every song was a punk song not just wanted to the songs and and of course the speed that we played tenuously No talking 1234 and to each song so that that’s how we thought punk should be and then vous punk bands picked up on that and they started you know, counting up to songs, they started playing fast getting leather jackets and yeah, you know, the whole deal we saw that influence, but But I understand about you know, the solidification in my opinion is solidification upon started and CBGBs

Ari Gold: and like, do you think it’s possible to get that the energy I mean, because you had this you know, very small pressure cooker cooker environment of CBS to play in and all these bands come I mean, people who haven’t been there this place was tiny. This you know, it’s historic, but it’s actually not.

Marky Ramone: Yeah, you walk in. There’s the phone booth on the right the pinball machine and then it goes straight ahead and stage to the left downstairs what was the bathroom and toilets, but it was 250 300 people capacity comfortably to apply when you weren’t squish. There were tables set up and chairs in case you wanted to have chili because they made chili there and that that was it.

Ari Gold: That was the whole thing. But that’s never going to exist again. Right because punk last

Marky Ramone: thing I think a lot of bands have Have to go out more they have to start a new scene. They have to hang out together. And my opinion a lot of people have hooked on on their iPhones computers and they waste too much time and those things they should physically in three and a three dimensional way. Go out there and meet each other. Talk about music, create a new new club like CBG these that’s really happening and noticed all over the world. Everyone that I’ve met who is a fan always asked me about CBDs I want to go here one day, but it doesn’t exist anymore.

Ari Gold: Yeah, it was briefly like a fashion store for John Farber.

Marky Ramone: Yeah, John Barbados, great guy. Anyway, I mean, you know, the, the the internet, again, for Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. A lot of people on it live in the past. I don’t, I don’t think that’s a bad thing if it brings them great memories amongst each other. But you got to realize if you think too much of the past, there’s hardly going to be a present and it’s definitely not going to be in the future. So you got to you’ve got to live in the present in order to have your future content. But if you live too much in the past, it’s gonna affect your present and future.

Ari Gold: Yeah, so I think I think all the bands that are citing citing the Ramones to create their own sound ideally, like they mash that up with something completely different and get into the pressure cooker situation with other people physically. I mean, it’s hard to it’s so hard to do the like, you know, there could be great Pong coming out of Argentina and maybe it combines with I don’t know maybe an Argentinian on the on the thread can get and respond but a

Marky Ramone: lot of it’s a lot

Ari Gold: with some national music or something from you know, that you heard at your grandmother’s you know, country house.

Marky Ramone: But you know, there’s a lot of POC, that that that is hybrid. They’ll mix it with some metal, metal or mix it with punk hardcore will mix it again with punk and metal viceversa. So that’s why I call it hybrids. But, but the punk that is the rap is a representation of that genre. It is basically the Ramones, The pistols, and I guess those are the two on the forefront.

Ari Gold: What about the anything in the California sound like? Dead Kennedys?

Marky Ramone: Well, yeah, I mean, they they’re good. They’re really, really good band. A lot of them started in 7778 76. Right? So a little home city, New York’s was a year and a half ahead of them. So a lot of them picked up on the sound of New York and applied it to their sound. And what you have Yeah, Black Flag circle jokes. You have bad religion. Yeah, yeah. And in Los Angeles, you had the charms you have all these all these bands that played punk, with the lyrical, lyrical content pertaining to where they grew up? What was happening at the time when they were in their youth. So that that was good, because it’s much different than New York.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Yeah. I’d like to, you know, hear some punk coming out of Ukraine now.

Marky Ramone: Going well, shall we? Well, yeah. If they have, if they still have the facilities to do it.

Ari Gold: Well, they, they, they do actually have friends going back to Kyiv. already. I mean, obviously, in the east, it’s it’s going to get worse. But hopefully the the cities that are getting some refugees coming back will will find a way to, you know, create music and create scenes. That’s fine. I know there’s some bands that are incorporating like Ukrainian folk melodies into their music. And I’d love to hear. I mean, in a way I actually Gogol bordello, did that Glocal Verdelho combined. And, and Ukrainian music and and, you know, Roma music and I think actually, that for me, that’s one of the best examples of taking the energy of punk, not recycling it and trying to, you know, do a remote site, come up with something different But with the inspiration, energy, I think that’s the key. Because some of the bands that I guess I’m very subtly dissing that are in the pop punk scene. Like, they got, they’re wearing leather or they’re, they’re playing loud and, and they sound like brass to me that I’d like to beat on but like,

Marky Ramone: I mean, you know, I look at that there’s a lot of crap. Yeah. You know, I mean, you know, but that’s the way it goes. It’s been like that since the beginning of rock.

Ari Gold: Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. Did you think when you join that you’d be still a Ramone decades later?

Marky Ramone: No, I thought after we retired in 96, you know, they asked me to change my last name. Now. My, my grandmother used to call me Maki, there was a cereal called maple, where the character in the commercial was mocking naipo. And as a little boy, and my mother used to make that for me. And then I sent away for it and I got the doll and it said Maki, Mako. So we were throwing around names. Larry Jimny, Bobby, Rocky, you know, all these weird names and when we stopped the market, you know, so that, that name stock. So after we retired, like I had to keep the name because for all for 15 years being in the band, that’s what I was known as I wasn’t going to start over with my real name again. Because the one that made sense more people know me as Mark and my mom. So yeah, I get I kept it and it helps because it attracts Ramones fans all over the world. Yeah. Come to the shows and I’m able to keep this music alive. Because I had like, I might tell you a few times the music’s too good not to be played. So somebody’s got to do it.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever heard a cover of a Ramones song that is like wildly different in terms of like, I don’t know country music cover or pop it

Marky Ramone: follow that emergency? Yeah,

Ari Gold: that was a superb I want to be sedated. We perfect.

Marky Ramone: There was a CD out while ago elevator Ramones music, which was elevated music of the Ramones. There’s a jazz album out of Ramones music.

Ari Gold: And you Kibo did their own easy listening. You remember? Did you ever hear that? But But Devo made their own easy listening album of their own songs.

Marky Ramone: They made on the wrong we somebody made it of us. Well, how do you pass? We didn’t have to do it some. I think it was called the Nutley brass. Okay, who compiled a bunch of songs and made it the elevated music. Then there was a jazz one. And then there’s the country one. And then there’s a lot of punk bands. Who did Ramones albums over again. And it was just a tribute.

Ari Gold: Right? It’s probably really good training. It’s like that. It’s probably good training for them like the Gus Van Zandt, the filmmaker, he remade psycho shot for shot exactly the same as the Hitchcock movie of the strange, strangest experiment. But you know, it probably is a way of getting inside original artists that you admire. Yeah. You know, if you actually play the real thing, and do your best you learn from it. You know, your body, I would imagine. Yeah. I mean, sort of like when I played with you, even though it was only you know, one show and a couple songs like, I’ll never forget it. I’ll never forget playing those songs with you. It’s incredible.

Marky Ramone: Thank you. That was That was fun. Yeah. I just wanted to thank you for your work and the Ukraine.

Ari Gold: Well, I hope you’ll get to play there soon. And if you if you do want to tour again, I’m sure there are fans in Ukraine who want to I was asked

Marky Ramone: to come to Russia. Just recently, I said thank you, but not at this moment.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Yes. i Well, thank you so much for chatting. People watching you can hear lots of interviews with drummers from New York here too. We have Todd Sucherman. huge list of people and it’ll be growing. We have it at Airdrie. dot com at hot sticks.fm is the audio version. And please, I guess check you out when you could do your your spoken word shows coming up.

Marky Ramone: I’ll be in Long Island on April 28 Spoken road show. And in a town called cut chalk, and a Patchogue. And they wanted me to come there and talk and then I’m going to Rhode Island. And to do the spoken word there, and then also Europe. My tour and when is it in June? So, okay, well, you come by and have a good time.

Ari Gold: There’s so many people in South America on this chat, and I think they’re crying right now that you don’t have a have a South American tour coming up again, tomorrow. Well,

Marky Ramone: I guess I the only place that in play was Brazil, because we didn’t have time. Yeah, we didn’t have the, you know, the we just agreed to do the four countries we did. And then come back home. You know that there’s certain rules through the COVID tests and things, all this stuff. So we thought that four countries was enough. I mean, we I love Brazil, and eventually I will go back and hopefully do a whole tour of that country.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Well. All right. Thank you.

Marky Ramone: I’ll speak to you again.

Ari Gold: You rock LA. I’ll see you soon. Back in New York. Yes. Okay. Ciao. Ciao.

This interview originally appeared on Hotsticks.fm.

See more about Marky Ramone on the official site for Adventures of Power, the world's greatest (and only) Air Drum Movie!

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From Anthrax to Testament: A Meeting of Thrash Legends

The conversation kicks off with Charlie Benante (Anthrax) explaining how the loss of Neil Peart and the onset of the pandemic created a creative void that could only be filled by playing. He reached out to Alex Skolnick (Testament) and Ra Diaz (Suicidal Tendencies) to bridge the distance through a series of remote “Quarantine Jams” that captivated the metal world.

The Suicidal Tendencies & Korn Groove

Ra Diaz—who has since taken his powerhouse bass playing to Korn—discusses the technical hurdles of syncing his funk-metal roots with the high-precision thrash of Anthrax and Testament. The trio breaks down the mechanics of recording “YYZ” and other Rush classics from their respective bunkers, proving that a band’s “chemical reaction” can survive isolation.

Riot Fest Dreams and the Future of the Trio

Beyond the technical talk, the group explores the raw hope of the “after.” They brainstorm taking this remote experiment to the stage—specifically a dream of playing a full Rush tribute set at Riot Fest. It’s a masterclass in how Charlie Benante, Alex Skolnick, and Ra Diaz used their craft to maintain their identity when the world went dark.

Watch video version here:

RAW TRANSCRIPT (Pardon the old-school glitches):

Ari Gold: Hello everybody my name is Ari Gold, the director of Adventures of Power the air drum movie, I’m also in the Guinness Book of World Records for air drumming. But more importantly, I am here to introduce the most amazing trio of wannabe air musicians who actually play real instruments of all time. Charlie Benante, from anthrax, and many other things, one of the geniuses of thrash and more Hi, Charlie, Alex, guitarist of many different genres, from metal to jazz, who has the distinction of turning me onto metal when I was 13, when he was when his band was called Legacy, and Ra Diaz, bassist extraordinaire of suicidal tendencies. I feel like this is America coming together we have metal, Southern California thrash punk metal, and New York, thrash metal finally together. And so America is America is going to be whole again, thanks to this trio. So thank you all for being here.

Charlie Benante: Thank you glad to be here.

Alex Skolnick: Yeah, Ari Gold in the house.

Ari Gold: So you know, we’re gonna be getting questions from the audience. And, but I would love to know how the three of you met because it’s such an amazing pairing. We also know the movie having Neil Peart in it and a Rush connection. And you guys playing Rush together as a trio? How did this happen? How did you guys come together in need and? And make rock together?

Charlie Benante: Wow. Well, I mean, I’ve known Alex since the 80s. A lot a long time. Our first one of our first tour is in Europe. Testament were accompanying us on that tour. But did we meet before that in San Francisco or somewhere? Or was that the first time on that tour?

Alex Skolnick: We testaments first show outside of the Bay Area was supporting Anthrax. And it was like in southern like outside of LA not LA proper. Corona.

Ari Gold: Metal allowed. Metal wasn’t allowed into the center of city back then. Right.

Alex Skolnick: At that time, that’s

Charlie Benante: just outside the city.

Alex Skolnick: Yeah, not but we I started with that show. Yeah. We ended up on Megaforce. And they they had a big connection with Megaforce. Right. Johnny Z. Was

Charlie Benante: this Yeah, give us our manager. And he had a manager and, and he

Alex Skolnick: was our label guy. So yeah, we ended up Yeah, so we ended up doing two tour dates together. And then yeah, that was that was how we first met but we never played together until quite reasonably

Charlie Benante: well. Legacy played with us state. They were supporting the show in San Francisco one time before they before they would Testament. And I don’t know if you were there, though, Alex. At that time. This was like 85 maybe 86

Alex Skolnick: Yeah, I might not have been there. Oh, wait, I came right around that time. Yeah. Already a band before?

Charlie Benante: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So they, um, so we’ve known each other since that that time and then Ra was

Ari Gold: like what this big at that time so you guys rub tip rubs along the bass strings and that’s how we got so tough. Right.

Alex Skolnick: That’s what I heard.

Ari Gold: I mean, right the first time

Charlie Benante: we met Ra on the on the cruise, that’s the first time and

Ra Diaz: and before that there’s been like, you know, like, random festivals that like our bands have played at the same festival but with I don’t know if we didn’t, I don’t remember. Like actually like me. I remember watching you guys play, but I don’t really remember like meeting you guys there. So I think I would say it was probably a cruise that we all did together. And that was like the first time that I guess we all like interacted with each other I guess.

Charlie Benante: Yeah, exactly. And the rest is history.

Ari Gold: Did you guys talk about doing rush? Like playing rush songs to like, quickly? Or how did that develop?

Alex Skolnick: The first, first, honestly, the first I heard about it was during the shutdown. When we were all at home and their quarantine videos were not a thing yet. Right? Right. We can give ourselves credit for being

Ari Gold: like, you get the most you invented a technology that allowed for like action by playing well,

Ra Diaz: I do remember that. At some point, like very, very early in like the whole quarantine thing. Me and Charlie did one. Like I count like on your birthday or something like that. You send me like a like just it wasn’t a song or anything you send me like a beat. Yeah. And I just like improvise something. And then I at some point, you asked me say Hey, we should I get a guitar or whatever. And but I think that was you that came up with the rush thing.

Charlie Benante: What happened was to just to take it from where I was talking about. I was watching the news 24/7. And I was getting depressed, day by day, day by day. And then my girlfriend said to me, you got to stop watching this stuff. Because you’re, you’re just so bummed out and depressed. Go Go be creative, go do something. And I think it was around that time where I talked to Ra, Alex and I said, We should do a jam. We should do like a quarantine jam. because it reminded me of like, when I was younger, I would come home from school and I’d go to my room just play. And it just kind of had that same vibe. And I think the the Neil that at the meal was still on my mind. And that’s i That’s why I think we chose to do a rush song. And plus, we all love rush so much. And then that’s how it started. It just evolved from there. And these guys could take it from there.

Alex Skolnick: I mean, it was a short time after

Ari Gold: me. It really is because the rush I mean, if I made the movie because of Rush, they’ve obviously been a massive, massive influence across. I mean, so many people have been touched by that music and they they spoke to something that took a while for people to I think there was a kind of resistance a cultural resistance for a long time. And throughout the while it’s not cool or something. Obviously it is cool, but I have some questions that I’m seeing someone’s asking this one’s that. Alex, do you have the Mad Ball guitar strap still? That’s from David cash.

Alex Skolnick: No, it’s kind of disintegrated. Okay, those mad balls. I had it in store it mad balls for those who weren’t around. Oh, yeah. I don’t know if that’s a Mad Ball. Oh, yeah, that’s what they

Ari Gold: liked. It migrated. And are you still buying boda amps or Kemper.

Alex Skolnick: But ya know, they were these great little toys. They were like, little nerf balls with phases. And I had them on the guitar strap. And unfortunately, you know, it sat in storage for many years. And one day I go through my storage. Oh, here’s the bad balls and they were they just completely disintegrated. I don’t know what that means.

Charlie Benante: They were foam rubber.

Alex Skolnick: Yeah. Yeah. And I think over the years Yeah, we did a couple tours, a couple of years of touring and all the sweat. I guess. There was some chemical reactions so they completely happens to me no more. Yeah.

Ari Gold: Do you guys see the possibility of the three of you going on tour together when when things change when we know that?

Charlie Benante: I want to I’m up. I’m up for two I wanted my manager to to talk to the Riot Fest people here in Chicago and have us do a whole set of rush.

Ari Gold: Well, whoa. Listen, here’s an idea from the Phantom three the three testament anthrax and suicide all together and the three of you as your own act. So it’s four acts you guys are the maybe you’re the headline.

Charlie Benante: All right, yeah, that’d be great. We but we need Brandon to Brandon.

Alex Skolnick: Robot robot. Robot robot.

Ari Gold: But the how does that does that mess with the Trio The Trio one yeah. It’s a good measure. You guys are all good when it comes in

Alex Skolnick: on the vocal songs. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Okay.

Charlie Benante: We’ll start off with instrumentals like, bam, bam, bam and then bring them come in. Nice.

Ra Diaz: Yeah, I’m not gonna sing

Alex Skolnick: nobody has a Geddy voice.

Ari Gold: I know Ra and I know this before your time was suicidal but I did get a report from my sister last night and I mentioned this to her skinhead boyfriend went to a suicidal show in San Francisco in the 80s when you were a small child, and he had this shit kicked out of him by suicide. Oh, cuz he was a white power skinhead. And I want to say that your bandmates did good.

Ra Diaz: I approve that. She was I mean, you said he was like, 85. Right.

Ari Gold: You could have been as it could have been as late as 89. That would be the talent. I don’t know what year it was. But I do know that he ended up completely completely blooded but but not by the audience by the band.

Ra Diaz: I’m sure that happened. Probably more than were in those. Yeah. Yeah. In that era.

Ari Gold: Okay, there’s a lot of people saying how much they love the rush covers during the lockdowns and they really really meant a lot you guys have such a cool Christopher molar chemistry together, even remotely? Would you consider writing original material together?

Ra Diaz: Me personally, I would love that. Um, I’m down anything so?

Alex Skolnick: Yeah, we’re up for anything. I think

Charlie Benante: I would love to do that.

Ari Gold: You guys switch instruments ever where you know like get Alex on the drums and Charlie on the guitar and raw like singing opera.

Alex Skolnick: Absolutely good to do any instrument. I would. You wouldn’t put me on.

Ra Diaz: Charlie plays everything.

Alex Skolnick: Yeah, I could make a little keyboards, but I can

Ari Gold: do some, some foot keyboards so you can get the Geddy .

Charlie Benante: Actually yeah, we could get the Taurus pedals and we could do that. But you know the thing about singing, especially singing a rush song, man, that takes confidence. Because more keyboards bass

Ari Gold: and singing, Geddy.

Ra Diaz: It’s it’s not just that he is singing the way Geddy sings and playing the way that he plays. You know, it’s not like he’s not just writing a note and singing. He’s doing crazy stuff. And so he has like,

Alex Skolnick: multiple people. Okay, yeah,

Charlie Benante: yeah, he is.

Ari Gold: And his hair. He has two hairs one. Yeah, so look,

Ra Diaz: I am done.

Charlie Benante: I you know, the thing about Geddy to is, um, I don’t know if it was because he had to do it. They didn’t want to get another member but he had to do it that way. Same with Alex Alex plays, tours too during sort of songs. But you know, just seeing those two come together with the double neck like when they do Xanadu and stuff is just like man, three guys creating all that stuff. And you know, it’s pretty amazing.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Alex, you covered Tommy Bolton. big influence on you. Someone’s asking. Tommy Bolin, Bolin, Bolin. Sorry. I misread.

Alex Skolnick: Yeah, Tommy. Tommy Bolin was the late. He’s the late, great guitarist. He was in deep purple for a time with Glenn Hughes. And he was in a band With Billy Cobham great, great drummer. Yeah. Billy Cobhams album,

Ari Gold: orchestra.

Alex Skolnick: Yeah, and he was most known for my visit. When he did his own thing. It was his first, I believe it was his first solo record. It was called spectrum. And it’s like a landmark jazz rock album. And Tommy Bolin is the guitarist. So the most well known song from that album is a song called chameleon. And I recently did a jam along with that on my Instagram Live and just shared that online.

Ari Gold: Nice. A lot of yeah, a lot of

Alex Skolnick: folks don’t know that. So it’s surprising. I mean, those of us who are fans of that genre, and especially young musicians who grew up jamming on to that are familiar with it, but it seems like it was reaching a lot...

Ari Gold: So it’s the trio’s has always been very open just did an air drone video with Modern Drummer just posted my air drum video with a period and that a few hours later, Stewart Copeland posted an air drone video I don’t know if it’s a coincidence. But it was right after Modern Drummer posted me and Neil I think steward wants in on the action.

Charlie Benante: I want to get it what’s what’s air drumming,

Ari Gold: he actually didn’t even put on music. He had a couple like Christmas toys or like little dolls and he was like here’s here’s for the air drummers or something like that. And then he’d like ship the toys like this.

Charlie Benante: So as far as air drumming goes to me it’s like I’ve always thought of Tom Sawyer being one of those songs I’ve created air drum

Ari Gold: Parts of my movie is that

Charlie Benante: whole Phil I would have to share like you know the Phil Collins in the air tonight.

Ari Gold: Movie to ….God. Recently, Jack and Diane produced by trivia people, do you know who created that sound for that song Jack and Diane? Anyone against David Bowie he created the David Bowie sound.

Charlie Benante: So that was Kenny Aronoff playing that

Ari Gold: Kenny Aronoff played it? But

Alex Skolnick: Brian Eno.

Ari Gold: No, it’s It’s one of my brain is it Sorry. It’s the great greatest guitar one of the greatest guitars of the 70s My brain is like melting. Oh Mick Ronson? Yes, thank you. Mick Ronson produced Jack and Diane. He was the one who came in and said let’s try crazy drum fill here and this big guitar thing. And John Mellencamp has, you know, credits Ronson for creating his like Mega stardom.

Alex Skolnick: Yeah, there’s a great documentary on McRoberts. Yeah, recently, that’s how I found out I didn’t even know that. Yeah.

Charlie Benante: I didn’t know that either. I mean, I thought the Peter Gabriel, Peter Gabriel record that Phil Collins played on include. Peter didn’t want any symbols, no symbols on it. So I think that helped to achieve that drum sound that

Charlie Benante: guys. So yeah. And all of a sudden, Dave Grohl walks in, which was like a total shock is he we have just happened to be there hanging out with Getty. It was a really weird thing. Well, he was I never fanboy.

Ari Gold: I mean, yeah, you know, he ended up

Alex Skolnick: just kind of shadowing Geddy. For. For some projects they were.

Ari Gold: I haven’t met Dave Grohl, but ever. I hear so many people say What a nice guy he is. And I’m suspicious.

Ra Diaz: He’s awesome. Very nice.

Alex Skolnick: Just like he comes across. Yeah, okay,

Ari Gold: good. Let’s just enact it’s not scared. Like, you know,

Alex Skolnick: it was super cool. Um, yeah, I’d love I never I’ve never got to meet Neil. Sadly, I’d love to meet Alex up to meet him at some point, I have a guitar just like is right up there.

Ari Gold: The you know, there’s four hours of talks about Neil, I talk about Neil but you know, a lot of other like, you know, people who you know, other drummers talk about him in the four hour Modern Drummer special about Neil period. So I really hope everyone buys that if you haven’t bought it already. Monitor it’s at Modern Drummer comm slash shop. So please get the special and the the profits for it go to support research into the cancer that that took him away from us. So please, please do check that out. By the way, we have 10 to 15 minutes, and then we’re going to go watch Adventures of power on the stream. Or if anyone wants to watch on amazon prime for like full screen view, they can do it there. All the streams support music cares. So and that doesn’t just mean tonight, I mean, forever. We’re giving money, the earnings to music cares. So check out adventures power, I would love to talk about the fact that I’m now waiting for my coffee beans to come from Charlie Benante. Now become a coffee entrepreneur. And let’s talk about Charlie, you know, as a drummer who has to drum fast, is that how you got into coffee? Because you didn’t want to be into speed?

Charlie Benante: No, no, well, it’s partially kind of like that. But I grew up in like an Italian, you know, family, household, whatever. And coffee was always brewing. So either it was, you know, cappuccino, regular coffee or black coffee, whatever, you know. And I’ve always been addicted to it. And then about 15 years ago, Dave Mustaine hit me up and say I’m thinking about doing the coffee thing. Are you down to do it? And I’m like, absolutely. I know exactly the type I want to do the brew the blend, whatever. And we started doing it, and then kind of lost interest in it. But I kept going so I did it independently on my own. And then this coffee brewer here, dark matter in Chicago. I hooked up with them and then we started doing tree blends and it’s been great. It’s just it’s the blends that i i picked I went down there we did the taste test spitting it out, you know, but uh, I love it. It’s like

Ari Gold: my favorite thing. You spent any time in Italy and the Oh yeah. Yeah. Do you do like walk across

Ari Gold: about your podcast that you got going on? Sure. You want to share with people who might not know about it?

Alex Skolnick: Yeah, well, I’ve wanted, I’ve been planning to do one for a long time. I know. Everybody and their petnow has a podcast. But it’s been in the works forever. And one of the shining lights of the whole shutdown. And just not traveling, in addition to cooking up with these guys, and doing our songs has been having the time and energy to get my podcast together. It’s called moods and modes. And every episode is different. The original idea was your one on one sessions with different musicians. So I started it out with great Indian musician who’s a friend of mine persona, great guitar player. Near Felder, who’s a guy, he’s he, he plays for Ben Platt. Right? You know, that’s, he’s kind of known for that. But he’s also a great jazz player sits in with Dave Matthews. You know, great. But now, you know, one on one jam sessions are tough to do. So it sort of evolved into stories. So it’s almost it’s been described as like, This American Life for guitar, or, like an Anthony Bourdain show, but about

Ari Gold: deja vu that way or

Alex Skolnick: ya know, I got some nice reviews, which I was like, Oh, that’s a perfect description. Now that is good. Um, so it got it got picked up by the Osiris media network. Okay, they have about 200 podcast or like real pros and their artists on there.

Ari Gold: Why you have such a good microphone there.

Alex Skolnick: Well, yeah. Yeah, they they

Ari Gold: are like whoa, we’re talking into our laptops.

Ra Diaz: Not even I’m talking to my iPad with like my

Alex Skolnick: Oh, they sent me straight. Do you need a pop filter? You need this software? Yeah. Um, so the first few episodes I mean, people said I did really good for you know amateur that I am but it’s definitely you’ll definitely rocker Yeah, by by like episode six or seven. You’ll definitely notice a difference but no, it’s all types of music. I I do my own little soundtracks music that does not fit any

Ra Diaz: some stuff for like, basically, whoever like hit me up. And we’d suicidal, we recorded some stuff and everything. But with everything that’s going on, I don’t even know when it’s gonna come out. You know. So, at this moment, like, all I’m doing is just basically playing bass at home and recording. Just chilling I guess waiting to see what happens. And I just

Ari Gold: there’s some like girl who’s like a basis star who always pops up on my feed for some reason. She’s like,

Ra Diaz: it’s the tiger. She’s always playing. Well, there’s,

Ari Gold: there’s like a bass duet, you could like create a backup of story. It’s like bass extravaganza.

Ra Diaz: I’ve done like, out of out of nowhere, sometimes, like earlier, like an hour before logging into this. So I was just in my room. And I’m like, Yeah, you know, when I go live and play a couple songs, and but it’s like, whenever I feel Yeah, I actually last week, I played like a couple like Rush songs and stuff. And it’s cool. I like the being spontaneous. I can do that plan thing. Too much. I stress easily. So

Ari Gold: good. And thorough, you got an art show coming up as well as

Charlie Benante: we were looking at, because we postponed it twice already because of the because of the virus. So we’re looking at hopefully doing it in February, maybe around Valentine’s Day. So guys, bring your girls and girls bring your guys and girls bring your guys Yeah. Or guys bring?

Ari Gold: We’re in this world. Guys. Bring your guys girls, bring your girls and then not the three of us. Bring your noncompliance as well. We should

Ra Diaz: play the art show the three of us.

Charlie Benante: Hey, that’s a good idea. Yeah,

Ra Diaz: we can meet up in Chicago and play a couple months. Ah,

Ari Gold: well, you know, any, anything you guys do you tell me I’m going to put you on the adventures of power website because there are no band pages for you guys, that will always be promotional. I will be on on point with what you guys are doing. So I think we’ll roll to the... and now let’s chat with the world’s greatest drummers and more about music and the human heartbeat. Imagine that.

This interview originally appeared on Hotsticks.fm.

See more about Charlie Benante, Ra Diaz, and Alex Skolnick on the official site for Adventures of Power, the world's greatest (and only) Air Drum Movie!

Enjoyed this session? Explore more from the Interviews Archive.

Entering the Zone

Dave Lombardo describes drumming as a physical and psychological state—an adrenaline-fueled zone shaped by endorphins, focus, and years of muscle memory. He compares the experience to athletes and fighters preparing for a match, explaining how nothing replicates the energy of the stage: lights, volume, audience, and the emotional release that follows.

Structure vs. Freedom

Moving between thrash, punk, avant-garde, and experimental worlds, Lombardo explains how improvisation acts as a reset button. Collaborations with artists like John Zorn, Mike Patton, and Bill Laswell allow him to cleanse and refresh his playing, bringing new ideas back into more structured band settings while still honoring legacy material.

Resilience and the Long View

Reflecting on career highs and lows—from arena stages to small clubs—Lombardo emphasizes adaptability, humility, and love of the instrument. Whether playing for thousands or air-drumming alone, he frames fulfillment as staying present, creative, and connected to music itself, regardless of scale.

Watch video version here:

RAW TRANSCRIPT (Pardon the old-school glitches):

Ari Gold: Okay, hi, everybody. I’m gonna turn my phone volume down so we don’t have an echo. So hello Dave. As some of you know, my name is Ari Gold, I directed the movie Adventures or Power which is about air drumming, Neil Peart is in it. And you know, it’s a big extravaganza about the absurdity of not having a drum. And I’m here with Dave Lombardo, who not only has drums. That’s an echo, apparently. Okay.

Dave Lombardo: I got it was me......okay.

Ari Gold: And I’m so honored to be talking with someone who, as I said, yesterday, I feel a little bit like Mike Patton must have felt when his high school demo was turned into, you know, a completely insane and heavy record last year right before locked down. But it’s an incredible honor to be with you, Dave. And to get an opportunity to talk about drumming and air drumming and all the different projects you’ve been involved in and the way you’ve been such an influence on several generations of drummers and musicians. So nice to Nice to meet you.

Dave Lombardo: Likewise, I’m honored to be sitting here with the master air drummer.

Ari Gold: I am in the Guinness Book, it’s my my claim to fame in life. I’m in the Guinness Book for air drumming. Yeah. But yeah, I’ve you know, I’ve been thinking a lot about how you know what I wanted to talk about with you. And one of the things that’s so beautiful about your, your drumming is you seem to be you seem to go into another state, another state of like, your when you’re drumming, first of all, watching you, I feel like I’m watching a camera that sped up doesn’t seem possible. But yeah, but you’re you’re you have that you have a total relaxation in your core. And then your limbs are, are doing something in Santa love to you know, just ask you if you can describe if you can, as politically or unpolitical as you like the state of being that you get into as a when you’re drawing.

Dave Lombardo: Well, the way I’ve experienced it is I would connect it with like, or compare it to a runner, or an athlete, that or even a boxer that is psyched before a show. You get into this mode of the adrenaline starts pumping through your body. Your heart rate jumps, several BPMs before you even started playing when I’m sitting in hotel rooms, you know, several hours before I’m already my adrenaline’s already kicked in, and I’m going through the parts and you know, everything is just getting ready for that moment on stage. I think that mental state that I get into is it has to be the endorphins or you know, obviously it has to be the endorphins, the the adrenaline, and it just puts me in this zone. And like I mentioned a boxer, when you have the like in the Rocky movie where it says you’ve got the iron Tiger, you know, like, you’re there, you’re ready to go, you’re focused. And that seems to where I go, but it seems like it happens naturally. It’s like I’m just there and I’ve only realized that recently in my career recently within the past few Two years, you know, so that I’ve realized, you know, this has this thing that happened. And it’s euphoric. For me, it’s it’s a musical place where I mean, addicted to it, I’ve noticed during this pandemic, that it’s the one thing that I miss the most everybody, you know, yeah, you can, you can play drums, you know, your, your studio, your room, your garage, and listen to music, but nothing is like, being on stage. And feeling the heat of the lights, connecting with the drums, the power of the speakers resonating behind you, your monitors, you know, the echo in the studio, or I’m sorry, the venue. Just everything is just like, it all comes together at that moment. And it’s almost an explosion and the end of the night, it takes time to come down from from that, from that musical high. And you just, you embrace it. You love it. And

Ari Gold: yeah, I mean, as far as addictions go, you know, you know, it keeps you keeps you in shape. And, and, you know, this, the release of advances of power supports music cares. And so we’re, you know, we’re trying to help people deal with addictions that aren’t so healthy. But it’s, you know, the way you describe being on stage is, you know, it seems like a wonderful place to be I think runners get that I get that surfing, in my own way. And it’s anything that brings you to an extreme state of presence. You know, I was actually in Cuba and I know, you know, your Cuban, although you left when you’re two years old, but I know you’ve still feel emotionally connected to to that country. And I was in Havana and past there was like a ground floor apartment or like the kitchen was like, basically almost in the street. And there was a guy in his underwear. It was like a really hot night, in his underwear with Tim Bala’s like jamming, like going crazy on the tomatoes, to a television, the television was playing some like Cuban band, and he was playing along with it. And his wife was sitting in a folding chair, just kind of like fanning herself and nodding and like that was his version of getting in the zone is, you know, jamming on the tamales in his underwear. And, you know, we all have our own way of doing that you happen to be, you know, a drum King, and you do it in front of many 1000s of people, but some people do it in front of their wife and a folding chair. But performing is performing

Dave Lombardo: that that to me would be as exhilarating, as exciting, if that was because I’ll never forget being a kid in in my room with my drumset in the corner of the bed, you know, and then I have my stereo and another corner and a little dresser and cranking up my cereal and playing along. And the feeling I have on siege. I was feeling that

Ari Gold: room. Yeah, I mean, this is, you know, I I’ve always asked because I made a movie about air drummers and Neal peered and I of course talked about your drumming before he did the movie. And he said that, yeah, he was playing magazines on his bed. He had laid out a bunch of different magazines on different pillows. And he would beat them until the color covers fell off. And yeah, everyone would you say?

Dave Lombardo: I did that with books with books, different thicknesses of books. I would lay him

Ari Gold: out and to create different tones and tones. Yeah. Did you set up because of your famous double bass drumming? Did you set up books on the floor to to create different? No, you hadn’t invented that yet? I was only a single bass drummer ethics. Okay. Okay, well, you had to start somewhere. You’re gonna move to triple triple feet soon enough. If anyone’s gonna do it, it’s gonna be you. Although, you know, have you ever have you seen Terry bozos? drum set? Oh, God. Yes. He has like, all the all the notes of the scale in bass drums. So he can go in a circle and play you know, C C sharp, D D sharp e in a circle. It’s crazy. Yeah,

Dave Lombardo: I heard I heard he could perform a Miles Davis song on his drum set, which is phenomenal.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Yeah. So you I mean, you know, obviously a lot of people think of you because of you know your pain. Hearing thrash metal but you know you’ve also you play with John Zorn. You play with Fred Frith you play with a lot of really interesting experimental I mean you know obviously Mike Patton is also in that kind of Nether World between like hardcore and you know almost intellectual experimental music do you what what’s what do you prefer? I mean, I guess I can’t say what you prefer because you love playing but like, how does one nurture the other I guess would be a way to phrase it

Dave Lombardo: where, let’s say a band like suicidal or misfits or any, you know, like a metal band or rock band that we play with where you have where you play a setlist consistently every every night, except for Fantomas he would pack we would change the set around every night we’ve we have a set for Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, all different setlist and he said let’s let’s say Saturday and say oh, let’s do Tuesday. So it’d be the Tuesday setlist. So flip it around, which would make you will make it really exciting. But we’re a band regular band would play the same setlist every every night. Bands like like working with zord or Bill Laswell. And performing like the avant garde improvisation style of music. You know, I look at that as being a cleansing almost from the the the the concert same setlist every single night. So when I interject, like one of those shows, you know, two or three times a year of improvisation, the show I would feel like it’s a cleansing. It’s kind of reset button for me for drumming. So then when I go back to the normal, you know, setlist bands that I would play in, whether it’s misfits, suicidal or even jetcost it would become more fresh. It’ll be we bring in some ideas from the performance from a, an improv performance, I would bring it in to the to, to a live show, like for example, the more structured setting

Ari Gold: so when you play, you know, if you played was going to refresh yourself and then you got to do I don’t know suicidal tendencies. Many tour tour where, especially when you’re playing music, that you know other drummers lay down tracks in the studio decades ago. How much can you bring your fresh spirit your improvisation into that? Or how do you find that middle ground between being Dave Lombardo which, you know, obviously, a lot of fans will be like, Oh, this, this band just got three times as good and he’s blowing ever and it’s out of the water and there’s some like weird flak, you know, like, but you also want to respect the original recordings. So how do you how do you how do you how can you be yourself in that

Dave Lombardo: there’s always there’s always a little section, you know, a little part in the song let’s say it could be a drumroll. It could be a little bell hit in between a break, you know, just something to show your personality and dislike a little spurt, just a little pizzazz, a little sprinkle of salt, a little pepper, little garlic. It’s, that’s how you do it, but you still keep the respect of the original recording in relation with the misfits, where the songs you know, have a very structured sound or a very structured songwriting style. There’s really not much room but where I will add my stamp would be like Dave Lombardo Sam would be in. In the beat in the rhythm, you just make sure Bing it Every time that it’s just point, you know, every change every single every symbol hit.

Ari Gold: Yeah, I mean you’re you’re a hi hat work is obviously a big part of what makes you special and the, the way you’re able to be incredibly fast and at the same time in a pocket, which is not something a lot of people know how to do. So

Dave Lombardo: it’s that risk. Yeah, yeah. So

Ari Gold: that makes sense. And then occasionally a Phil, you can you can be Dave even, even though it’s an older track. I mean, your fills are so interesting, too. I have heard some people describe them as like, feeling like they’re running backwards. Is that something that you that like you learned? I mean, is that a bill billboard influenced you at all with that, because I, I feel a little like flavor of early Sabbath and some of those some of that kind of architecture of a film.

Dave Lombardo: I absorbed so much in my, in the early years of my, my drumming, that billboard definitely was a, an influence.

Ari Gold: But can I just interrupt for one second? Can you turn down the volume on your phone? Because I think your phone and your iPad might be feeding back to each other? It’s Oh, the phone volume is off? Yeah, okay. Yeah, I’m not sure what it is. You know, no one’s gonna die. There’s a little echo, but the people will survive. Oh, I don’t know. It’s like, it’s like we’re in a stadium. I hear that. Okay. Yeah, so sorry, I didn’t draw your billboard. Sorry. I cut you off. But yeah,

Dave Lombardo: there’s there hasn’t been somewhere along the line that that, that his style influenced me, I don’t know, particularly where I remember purchasing the album paranoid. And listening to the album, consistently through my high school years, my early, let’s say ninth grade. And then, so I would have been probably 75 since six.

Ari Gold: That would have been like, when they when that kind of metal was even, you know you what, so you would have been slightly scared of that metal and intrigued by it at that age as you were to be a kid. And so like, the speaker is like melting into the carpet, and it’s going to go down all the way to hell.

Dave Lombardo: I remember one time, visiting a friend in high school visiting his house and he played we sold our soul for rock and roll or Led Zeppelin album double EIGHT in his bedroom, and his mom would bang on the door. That’s the devil’s music. I’m like, Yeah,

Ari Gold: that’s awesome. Yeah, I mean, an adventure is a power. There’s the girl that my drummer character falls in love with it is deaf, and you find out she’s lost her hearing at a rock concert. And her mother is a hardcore Christian. And accuses her of dancing the devil’s music when she sees me air drumming to hell bent for leather by tunes. So yeah, I mean, it was a real thing. I mean, I have to say, when I was a kid, I was a little scared of Slayer. I was a little scared. And that fear is is part of what like when you’re an adolescent, but fear is what becomes the attraction. You know? Like it like a horror film or whatever. It’s, uh, I mean, how much as a drummer, like, not just, you know, back then, but like, now working with pattern and how much do you think about the lyrics that are going with your drumming? does it cross your mind? Or? Or is it influenced what you play or not really?

Dave Lombardo: Not really. It does. Sometimes, depending on the line, and where it falls in the song. It’ll gravitate, you know, it’ll, it’ll lift the song for me a little bit. Maybe I’ll hit the drums a little harder, because it’s saying this particular line, whatever it may be, and it’ll, you know, it’ll drive me a little bit more to be a little more aggressive. You know, whatever the line, you know. It’s sometimes that’s yes, definitely boosts the drumming.

Ari Gold: I mean, I can imagine it’d be more like in a little break when the singer screams something and you use that as your like motivator to come back in on a one or whatever, you know. But you ever write lyrics? No, never tried. I mean, you do art I you’ve done on visual art, so you’ve branching out into maybe visual art. You’re an articulate guy, maybe it’s time to like, force one of your bands to like put some Lombardo lyrics in there.

Dave Lombardo: Yeah, I kind of stay away from that, you know, I focus more on the you know, the structure, the composition you know, music make sure it flows and you know, musically for me, that’s, that’s my forte. That’s where I like to.

Ari Gold: I like to dabble. Yeah, yeah. So why did you are you doing any visual art these days? Or is that like a thing? I don’t know. If at one point

Dave Lombardo: No, I just did that. Rhythm mysterium which was through seeing for where we photograph. They photographed me with with these six sets had lights in them and something with the exposure of the camera. I’m not too sure how many did it but

Ari Gold: let’s be honest, it’s kind of a it was kind of a Burning Man art style. I know. That’s not necessarily you’re seeing flying sticks. Right? Have you been to Burning Man?

Dave Lombardo: No, I haven’t but I mean DJ.

Ari Gold: Oh, yeah. So okay, so your DJ set? What’s What are you going to what’s going to be in your in yourself in your DJ set? For your headline but

Dave Lombardo: you can’t even imagine what my iPod was once my five now my iTunes consists of so it’s it varies from many many different genres.

Ari Gold: Is there a genre that you will not listen to or play? Um and Willie Nelson doesn’t count as country as its own category. Entry always comes up Yeah. Well, it does because like, you know,

Dave Lombardo: country you know, which is the Willie Nelson it’s the Johnny Cash.

Ari Gold: You know, Waylon Waylon Jennings

Dave Lombardo: it’s so many the classic guys you know those kinds of great

Ari Gold: dirty ones.

Dave Lombardo: But you are country I can’t get

Ari Gold: into it. Yeah, I have trouble with it too. So So bend like dead cross and then mixing that with Mr. Bungle you know, so you have like a couple patent experiences what’s what taught what sides your personality get to play out in these different packs that you’re in now? Like, do you guys put on different hats in those different outfits? I’m sorry, what do you guys put on like different personalities when you’re playing in those bands? Or is there like a power dynamic shift because then cross

Dave Lombardo: across obviously the Mr. Bongo music was written you know before you know I was ever in the band. So there was you know, a set some structure. So I just gave my personality and my my spirit with dead cross, it’s a little more personal. Debt cross has more of my creativity. When we write the songs it’s usually the guitar player and I go into the studio and we improvise and we just get creative and try to find the most brutal drum rhythms and guitar chords and structures that we can and we record those and kind of piece them all together and a create these little bodies of work so I believe dead Cross would have more of my my my personality or my spirit,

Ari Gold: right? For now, I mean, because you’re you know, your full cranking Member Mr. Bongo now so you can the next recording. Right? Right. Yeah, I mean, I the the craziness of sort of the flavor of that feels like it would be fun to present anything. Anything goes as long as it’s fucking insane. Right? Yeah.

Dave Lombardo: And Mr. Bungle it’s amazing because those, you know those songs was were influenced by anthrax and Slayer. And so I could relate to those to that body of work. And it’s, it connects and resonates, you know, with,

Ari Gold: with myself whether we might need to change the subject to suicidal because rod Diaz is in the chat saying hi.

Dave Lombardo: Hey, Rob, with

Ari Gold: core I know, I know. And so and I interviewed ray. So, you know, rah, if you’re out there listening, you have to like, poke ray in the nose for me. But that’s, that’s awesome that you’ll be with corn. Yeah, that’s really No, he can’t I can’t hear what he’s saying back but I’m sure he can hear us so, so high, they’re raw you you are you are raw and raw. So I, I’d love to know if you have any advice for drummers or musicians? Because obviously a lot of people watching right now or, you know, admirers of yours and aspiring to be great. And what do you have any, like, anything you’ve learned that you could share with people?

Dave Lombardo: Um, well, I’ve been, you know, my career has, has gone up and down, and I’m not on the merry go round, I’m on the roller coaster. So it’s a bit exciting. Not saying the merry go round isn’t what I find the roller coaster a lot waiting because you, you go through a lot of experiences that if you were in a band, for the same band, many years, you don’t get to experience the low points. And some of those low points are difficult at times, but they also creates character and you know, if they can do skin, so you can go through anything. So my advice is, you know, through through my career, and everything I’ve experienced is to never to always be happy. Play music at whatever level you’re at. When I left Slayer, in 2013, I found myself going from huge sages, huge crowds, to playing with another band that I had at the time, you know, in front of small clubs. And so I did that for several years, and then slowly got back up, you know, suicidal, then I got into the misfits, I created death cross now and Mr. Bungle. So it’s, it doesn’t matter where you play, even if you’re air drumming in your room, even if you don’t have a drum set, as long as you’re playing it feeling that music. That is, I feel the most important element in being happy as a musician, you have to be content with, with, you know, when life is giving you at the time for me, you know, like I said, I’ve gone through it. Yeah, some people. Oh, yeah. He

Ari Gold: said, people hit that bottom, and they don’t, they don’t do what you did, which is you keep playing and if you’re playing for a small club after playing a giant arena, and that’s why there’s so many people who, who love you is because you’re not just amazing drummer, but you’re actually a testament. And that’s could be a Testament reference. But now you’re a testament to, to resilience. But yeah, I mean, the adventures of power is about someone who has nothing, he has no drums, he’s gonna lose his job. And he tries to make something out of out of that. And it’s a comedy. It’s ridiculous, but it’s a powerful message. And then there are link up with MusiCares, which has been really helping people during the last boat, always, you know, it’s been helping musician for a long time, but particularly during this really hard time when, you know, touring musicians, but also roadies, and you know, people may sort of not the big marquee names of the business really struggling to survive either with addiction or just food insecurity or whatever. And so, I want to encourage everyone to support MusiCares if you’ve got any spare, spare cash, if you’ve watched the adventures of power on Amazon Prime or buy it on Vimeo, it will support MusiCares with their earnings so watching the movie even for free on prime is helpful. But do you have any MusiCares stories that you be comfortable sharing or?

Dave Lombardo: Well we Mr. Fungal I believe Mr. Bumble, we, I believe we released T shirts, or maybe was get crossed. I don’t remember early on in the pandemic early 2020 Man that feedback is insane.

Ari Gold: Yeah, I’m not sure. I’m not sure how to stop it. I mean, we could put on headphones if you have headphones maybe that would stop it. Do you have any nearby? Yes. Alright, so whoever’s we’re singing a song right now this isn’t radio silence. It’s just we’re gonna get headphones and see if this fixes it

Ari Gold: okay, you would think that musisz a world class drummer and a not that world class director would know how to use testing testing testing not working over here. Can you hear me?

Ari Gold: What happened? Testing again? Oh my god, did I lose you? Can you hear me? Hold on a second. I believe in myself. The Instagram people can still hear probably but

Ari Gold: not nothing. Does our tech to their tech guy No, it’s I can’t hear you. Dave, John I think on mic is working. Well, in order to stop an echo, we stopped everything.

Ari Gold: 10 Can you hear me? Dave? Can’t hear him. You know, maybe if you can hear me, we’ll sign out and sign back in.

Ari Gold: We’re going to sign out and sign back in. Hold on a second. I’m going to turn this off, folks. If you can hear me and then I’m going to start it again. There we go. Okay. I guess we’ll live with the echo. Echoes rule. I think we’re live in. Hey, didi. Just DeeDee Can you let me know if it’s live? Or live? Okay. Sorry about that, folks. And Instagram. You guys get to that was a little backstage excitement. Oh, there’s so many comments in the Instagram. Let me just see if it’s keep it going. Okay, so people don’t want us to leave. All right. Okay, good. Dave, we have grown so I got to take a picture again. You’re still a godfather of drumming. San Antonio, Texas. I know. There’s just a lot of comments. I’m just switching to my phone for a second. See if there’s anything I want to I want to hear about your point of view of the first dead cross show at the Casbah. Oh, wow. That’s just reading a comment on the on the Instagram. We’re doing simulcast on Instagram folks. It’s high tech.

Dave Lombardo: Wow, that was brutal. We were we had just written I don’t know what seven eight songs at the time. And it was. It was exciting. It was one of those evenings where, you know, we knew how was going to break loose. We just went with it. Just just went off and played as hard as we could You know, it was a small sweaty club. And it was a lot of fun to say the least. Yeah, I mean, what there had to have been minimum 200 people, maybe less. It’s was great.

Ari Gold: And that 200 people on that end. Yeah. So that was you getting back to your roots, right?

Dave Lombardo: Yeah, that was that was, you know, the bottom of the,

Ari Gold: of the roller coaster. Right. But let’s look at slightly like when you first when you founded Slayer, you were playing to 12 people probably in your high school. So

Dave Lombardo: Slayer play this bar. My mom drove me there. We put my drum set in the back of her car in the trunk. You know, it was like a 71 Pontiac Vinter look like a nova. And so we fit the drums in there. And she drove me I had to have been 716 17 years old. And and there were there was nobody in the crowd. I think my mom was just sitting on the side somewhere. And they were about four or five bikers by the pool table. And you heard them scream, you know, scattered. Or. Right. You know, so yeah, I mean, we’ve all been there. And it’s just it’s part of, you know, growing up. And, and being a musician.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I’d love to, I don’t know, do you go to Cuba? Do Are you allowed to is your family blocked? Like, what’s the?

Dave Lombardo: No, no, I went there in I believe, might have been 2018.

Ari Gold: Okay, that’s around the same time I went. Yeah. 2018.

Dave Lombardo: It was early 2018 in January, and then I returned in May. April May, with suicidal suicidal played a couple shows.

Ari Gold: Oh, really? How was that?

Dave Lombardo: phenomenon? It was great, man. You know, they don’t get that kind of entertainment. Yeah. Too often. And when we played there, it was it was great. You know, you play there for free? Yeah. Oh, cuz they don’t have money to pay. So you just, you paid less. And thankfully, my my viewer he, you know, he paid for all the flights and everything. And he fulfilled the dream of mine. Wow. Was to display in Cuba.

Ari Gold: He did that for you. Oh, for himself. Yeah. But for him. Yeah. But But I mean, you inspired it.

Dave Lombardo: But yeah, he saw that I had made that I had gone there. It might have been January 2018. And, you know, shortly after we had booked two shows that

Ari Gold: were in Cuba did you play

Dave Lombardo: we play would have been open which is you know, East. It’s a province ease that we played.

Ari Gold: Someone saying Can Dave mute his phone? Are you sure? Did you turn the volume down again, when we started again?

Dave Lombardo: Volume is down. As well as my volume is down and the microphone for the actual app is off. There’s a line through it. The only thing that’s left for me to turn off is this microphone.

Ari Gold: Okay, it’s okay. It I think our text is saying that it’s working. It’s all good. It’s all good. Okay, we’ve got a we’ve got a red flag and the flag has dropped so yeah, I was Santana cumin. I’m trying to remember. Carlos Santana. No, no, he’s Mexican. Mexican. Okay, but he had a big Cuban influence in his stuff in the 70s.

Dave Lombardo: Actually, he recorded the song by people pointing. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Yeah. And then, and then he medley eyes that with something else that kind of more psychedelic I think. But I know it’s like the mid 70s Stuff like Moonflower I don’t know if you ever listen. Yeah. Okay. So I, I have a special connection to that record because my mother was dating Bill Graham, the rock music promoter who I manage Santana in the Grateful Dead and, you know, people who some people know who he is. But she dated him in the 70s and then later dated them again, they actually died and she died in a helicopter crash with him. So but and Santana played at the funeral. So I have this like, very deep connection to him. But also when I was four, or I think I was four, they were recording Moonflower. And my mother went to the studio and she described coming back and saying that they had like, done, like 40 takes in what because they wanted to live track everything. They didn’t want to do cuts, but they had to get the right take and they would just do take after take after take after take after take and then. And Santana was apparently complaining because Bill Graham was like, We need another deck. Because Bill Graham actually grew up, you know, after he escaped the Holocaust as a kid and he grew up and outside New York, his birth as a lover of music was Cuban music. And that’s what got me first she got into Cuban music, he got to dancing, then he got into rock and roll. And that’s how the whole kind of scene happened.

Dave Lombardo: That’s kind of the same path I was on. My parents would were obviously listening to send me a cruise, FIFA point, a venti morning, all these, you know, Latin artists, and I did all my keeping friends and my mom and dad and hang out with and you know, and they would obviously have kids, and we’d all get together and just rage in the streets and stuff. And when we would go to these dances and parties, you know, because that’s one thing he was like to do is party and have a good time, listen to music, dance and all that stuff. And, you know, we were everybody was into dance music in the 70s. And, and I was the only one you know, amongst the group that was into sampling Sabbath. I was kind of, you know, familiarizing myself with American culture.

Ari Gold: And this is before full on the rain.

Dave Lombardo: Yes. Oh, yeah. Because my brother got me into Zeppelin Led Zeppelin to he played for me, Moby Dick. And, and also cream with Ginger Baker.

Ari Gold: Get my friend I live half a block from the guy who made the documentary about Ginger Baker, and got you know, hit in the head with with a cane. Like a like a metal came by Ginger Baker in Africa.

Dave Lombardo: I hope to be like him when I like ginger

Ari Gold: style. I think it’s better that you’re a decent human. I mean, Ginger had his at his good points and bad points, let’s just say, of course. Yeah. But, um, but ya know, I know, he, I know. Well, you were influenced by a lot of trios. I mean, and Mitch Mitchell and, and, you know, because the guys who could hold it down and trio, we’re not just getting a backbeat they were giving the whole you know, if it was an orchestra would be the, you know, the timpani and the the cymbals and the triangle and the snare and everything. And they, the trio guys have that, to Copeland has that, you know. And it’s cool that those were, I know, those people influenced you, I’ve read some interviews with you where he talks about

Dave Lombardo: magic, there’s magic in a tree, I mean, it is the bare bones of a band. Base because when you’re when you’re in a trio, the drummer when when the guitar drops out and start playing goes into a lead, you need to pick up that energy compensate for that drop. So, you know what I’ve learned from Black Sabbath Creed zeppler. That, you know, you you elevate the excitement by you know, when you go into to your ride cymbal, when you go into a lead, and you know, it just elevates the sound, it’s so beautiful. And when when a trio captures that, that energy or that that element in their playing. It’s, it’s beautiful. It’s fantastic recently worked with with Dave Grohl, and something you know, told me to dive into old Nirvana and watch videos. And that was one hell of a trio when they went off on stage and jamming really into the music. You know, they were one The tide is bad, but it was so good. And for some reason, it never occurred to me, you know, about Iran and eat a tree. I knew it in the back of my mind, but to watch them perform, they really they captured that. The beauty of a trail.

Ari Gold: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. I never saw them play live I was this close. Show up. Oh, really?

Dave Lombardo: Yeah. I was gonna see them in a parody zone in Amsterdam in 1991. And,

Ari Gold: yeah, it didn’t show you was like in bad shape or something

Dave Lombardo: in play. And then I was leaving on a plane go home the next day. And I missed them and basically scheduled for the day that I was leaving.

Ari Gold: Yeah, my. My great show that I could have missed but didn’t was actually was Jane’s Addiction at the stone in San Francisco. On Broadway. In front, there was like 20, maybe 25 people there? And oh, yeah. I mean, yeah. So if you think the singer, the singer means nothing to you. It ain’t nothing. To be there. What?

Dave Lombardo: He’s lucky to be there.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Well, in this case, he was barely there. And we It wasn’t clear that he was going to get on stage. And when they did pigs in Zen where he like, improvise as a kind of rapper song in the middle of it. And then the album, he’s like, you know, I know about pain and Ward being called. And in this show. Like, we’re like waiting. What’s he going to say? He kind of stumbled up the stage. And he goes, it’s like, done it. Done it. Then he goes, anyone see the Dodgers game? Like, what is this? Is this the poetry we were waiting for? But there were 25 people. So it was like, you know, like, you remember the stone? You must remember the stone, right? It’s a little club. That’s long gone. But like, but yeah, I mean, it was it was a small club, and it was mostly empty. And I guess they were already pretty big in LA. So he was probably like, wondering why he came up to San Francisco and play for 20 people. But I was one of them.

Dave Lombardo: It must have been a great show.

Ari Gold: It was it’s well my favorite part was how bad his rap was in the middle of that song because

Dave Lombardo: that’s a great album.

Ari Gold: It’s a great album. Really good too. Yeah. Yeah. Steven Perkins is awesome. Got drummers got it got a real style of his own. No one drums like that. Yeah. Are you doing any work with Apocalyptica anymore? Is that sort of ancient history? Or?

Dave Lombardo: No, I haven’t seen saw them when I was in Europe some time ago, at some festival, but we haven’t seen each other in a while. So I don’t anticipate anything in the future. But you never know.

Ari Gold: You never know. Apocalyptic plot plus, I didn’t know the New York Philharmonic.

Dave Lombardo: Right. That’s a great idea. No, actually, you know, I was the first drummer they ever performed with. I was doing a drum workshop. Like this little festival in Europe. And they were playing a show either the next day or the same day I can’t remember. And they asked me hey, you want to play south the heaven? You know Slayer something heaven with us? Yeah, let’s do it. And you know, this was before. Phantom us this was before. anybody knew I was into experimenting.

Ari Gold: Oh, wait, so wait, mid 90s wasn’t a Phantom was like, late 90s. When that started?

Dave Lombardo: Yeah, late. 90s.

Ari Gold: So you were with Apocalyptica earlier than that. So yeah, I didn’t realize that.

Dave Lombardo: Yeah. Wow. So that was and then after it worked. You know, I think and don’t quote me, I’m pretty sure that after they saw that and heard that there, cellos and drumming you know, actually work. They they got their new drummer and, and they it’s been nonstop since.

Ari Gold: Right? It’s good. They got a new drummer who got to be intimidated by the the path you carved through that.

Dave Lombardo: He’s He’s really good. I really liked him. Very nice guy, great drummer. And we’ve worked together, you know, since he’s been in the band, because we did some recordings and he was there so

Ari Gold: yeah, great guy. And or do you see yourself doing any more like art pieces? I know you did like one for Matthew Barney. You do. And those who don’t know the Matthew Barney is a experimental filmmaker, slash artists who creates these very long, epic metaphorical films with strange creatures in them very strange. He dresses as like the kind of like a setter from a nightmare. And Dave did a an epic drum track for him.

Dave Lombardo: Actually, we also did a video you might be able to find it on YouTube, Matthew Barney April Bardot. We, he, you know, we entered a studio. And he said, I want to, I want you to do a drum solo. And we’re gonna film it. And he had a vocalist there. I can’t remember the vocalists name at the time. And so he wanted to create this really bizarre video in a studio. But he said, I want to bring in beads, actual beat, you know, with a beekeeper and let them loose in this vocal booth and record the bees around this microphone. So he put the queen bee on the microphone, and then all of a sudden, all the bees swarmed around the microphone. And they recorded it. And the musical director for the movie in the video, he sampled he sampled the bees on a keyboard and use the

Ari Gold: ball set as like, like guitar sound. But it was B C, you know, wow, that sounds really nightmarish and wonderful, very nightmarish.

Dave Lombardo: It’s funny. They have the beekeepers, that camera. You know, the camera team. Everybody was in B suits. And I was in a black T shirt. I had this crazy wig on. And because I think I had short hair at the time. So they wanted me to look like I was in the 80s. And so they said okay, well, the beekeeper came into the room. He said, Whatever you do, just don’t swap the beads. And I kept my head like a dog trying to understand what you’re saying. And I said, Wait, I don’t have a bee suit in how do the bees not know that? I’m not swatting them. So I thought it was gonna get stung. But I did it. But oh, the drug the vocalist for corn. Jonathan Davis was sick in the neighboring studio. And a bee got in through the vents and went into the studio and started back.

Ari Gold: Fucking perfect. I love that it went up and attacked corn. Were you brought? Does he know that you’re to blame for this B? That you like the B was trying to get away from you?

Dave Lombardo: Nobody in the in our studio that’s done. But his Jonathan means his engineering.

Ari Gold: Oh, the engineer did? Yeah. Oh, okay. I thought it was just the thing or didn’t get stung. Somehow, like a singer getting stung. It’s funny an engineer getting stung is I feel bad. Yeah. Why is that? You know, because the singer, singers tends to be, you know, shocked. A extrovert is getting a lot of attention. And it’s funny to get a big welt on their neck when an engineer is already kind of hunched over.

Dave Lombardo: They don’t have to hold drums around.

Ari Gold: Yeah, yeah, that will be annoying if they just hold this. Yeah. By the way, the Instagram we have an Instagram Live limit of an of an hour which we’re this is one of the longest interviews ever done. It’s really fun talking to you. But in order that our phone people don’t get cut off in the middle of a sentence. Maybe we’ll sort of wrap it up or we or we can say goodbye to the Instagram people because they may it may just get sliced by, by the system. But so let’s, let’s say are our well I’ll say the one thing that I would like to say the most important thing is that it’s incredible honor to talking with you. It’s so fun talking with you, you’re you have such a simple mind. And, you know, the jokes about drummers drooling out of both sides of their mouths is definitely not true.

Dave Lombardo: Read some of these comments, you know,

Ari Gold: are you seeing them now? Well, no, I

Dave Lombardo: mean, my phone’s a little star.

Ari Gold: Oh, anyway, people. Well, Instagram people are saying don’t stop, but we’ll we can leave it on at some point. It’s going to cut off in the middle of a sentence. So we don’t want you to think we’re rude so we can keep talking until it just cuts off. Okay. Ask the question people like ask the questions we’re asking. Okay. I’m scrolling there’s a lot of compliments I’m looking for question marks the person who wanted me to ask you something. Oh, anyway, just in case we get caught off is Dave Lombardo. I’m Ari Gold, I directed Adventures of power the air drum movie with Michael McKean from spinal tap and Neal peered and it’s a beautiful, ridiculous comedy you can watch for free on Amazon. And when you do so, money goes to support MusiCares and supporting musicians in need, and you can learn more about that at Air drummer.com. That’s my little spiel. And then people are saying, okay, Dave Lombardo movie. Well, I’m talking about movies, besides the Matthew Barney thing, and I know you did. So a little bit of soundtrack work you are you interested in cinema? That’s a question off of Instagram.

Dave Lombardo: I love creating music, to pictures. It’s, it really helps, you know, to that it sets a you know, sets a scene. And I recently composed music for for a movie, for these for it’s called the most cool thing was free keys, which is about metal bands in Cuba. You know, just going through the air every day, you know, strife and, you know, hardships, and, you know, the bands, you know, some of the members of the band were arrested and put in jail for several years, you know, for playing metal music, you know, they were looked down upon. So that was a real treat for me to do, and that’s going to be out real soon. I just got word that it’s going to be out on,

Ari Gold: you know, what are they? What kind of metal were they playing? I mean, Russia, okay. Oh, yes, of course, for us metal

Dave Lombardo: bands called Zeus and it’s really cool. I mean, I had a lot of fun doing that. The and I hope to do more I just helped out with adding drugs to Dark Knight death metal, DC Comics you know, cartoon comic book, this whole comic book series and they have a soundtrack to it.

Ari Gold: And you’re you’re composing for to playing drums or combination with drums

Dave Lombardo: for it. Yeah, Tyler Bates, a dear friend of mine. He would send me like like some drones some, like just like, backdrop news. And, and then I would create over it and he would give me the you know, kind of a synopsis of the story. I would try to envision that and then play along to it. Then create my drum patterns. You know? So I did that. I worked on Thunder Force this last year and 2020 It’s a Melissa McCarthy and Tom tickets. Spencer movie. And that’s released that’s on Netflix. I worked with Scott Ian on that.

Ari Gold: Oh, wow. And Phil Eisler Did you compose music or will you fill

Dave Lombardo: nicely composed music and and then he was send us you know the stones, the rough tracks and then we would recreate them and record them at the studio.

Ari Gold: That’s pretty sweet as a composer like Colin Dave Lombardo and Scott yen to lay down some some

Dave Lombardo: cool was Melissa McCarthy had a slayer shirt on theory. And okay, that was awesome. And the

Ari Gold: I just did a music video for some punk kids that I met on Venice Beach. homeless kids who are going to be I think this video is going to blow up and I hope it blows up. But they were wearing Dead Kennedys and suicidal shirts. So I’m like, All right, I gotta tell Dave that there’s like some suicidal fans living out of their car bunch of black kids actually and then bring that up because they’re like we have to prove that punk is black and and and we’re gonna bring we’re gonna bring black back the punk and punk back to black and they’re like, but anyway, they’ve got the last shot you see suicidal written right down running on guys are so awesome. Yeah.

Dave Lombardo: I love you know, seeing some of those you know, like the best. And you’ll see a slayer patch, you’ll see a testament patch. You’ll see. You know, he’s Willis Apocalyptica. And you’ll see all these bands as i i played in that band.

Ari Gold: You played in most bands? Let’s be honest. What bands have you not played in?

Dave Lombardo: But yeah, misfits as well. It’s just, it’s just really cool. I’m really proud and happy to be part of such an amazing generation. And it’s, it’s surreal, in a way for me because I grew up admiring bands like, making and, you know, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest. You know, so many of these, even, you know, Zeplin, cream and Jimi Hendrix and all that. And then it seems like now, I’ve kind of like, um, like, part of that kind of cycle or general part of the newer generation musicians, you know, that are kind of carrying the torch.

Ari Gold: Yes. You get to you get to be, you get to be in multiple generations. It’s, it’s nice. Because you’re because you’re still innovating and still branching out in a million directions. I did someone’s asking, speaking of like, one of your branches. I just pulling this pulling this question, but grip Incorporated. Favorite record? What’s your favorite record from that? Project? Someone wants to know.

Dave Lombardo: Yeah. Power of inner strength was great, because it was my first record after I left Slayer to the second time I left Slayer. I, you know, created this band out of nothing. And you know, chose all the musicians. And I discovered the singer who unfortunately passed away in I believe 2008. And, you know, it was it was phenomenal. It was a great time. However, the string Nemesis with amazing solidifying, Incorporated, it’s those songs. Pretty awesome man and listening back. They still blow me away. But it really tears into my heart. Because Gus is not with us. He’s not with us anymore. And it would have been great to reunite that band. And, you know, do some of the shows and festivals and yeah, you know, today, but yeah, great band.

Ari Gold: Well, you got fans, you got fans here bringing them up. So that’s nice. Let me see. I’ll pull another question. I don’t know how you feel up there about certain. I mean, do you want to talk about you can say you don’t want to talk about, you know, losing. Hanuman

Dave Lombardo: is one of the keys next to Gus. Incorrect, Incorporated. And this is another was a terrible loss. You know, it’s unfortunate, you know, how it all happened. And, you know, to this day, you know, I miss him, you know, I communicate with his wife. And, you know, she knows how I felt about Hanuman. And how Hanuman felt about me. And, you know, he’s just, he was an amazing Trailblazer. You know, he, he hardly, he hardly knew how to play guitar when I first met him. And some of the best Slayer songs that you could have ever imagined. And he’s, he’s definitely best.

Ari Gold: Yeah. On a more cheerful subject, someone’s asking and I’m wondering if it’s rod Diaz himself, someone’s like, what was it like working with Rod Diaz? I’m wondering like Is that raw, like pretending to be someone else being like, How handsome is Rod Diaz when you’re standing next to him?

Dave Lombardo: You know, rods is great. He and I joined suicide

Ari Gold: at the same time. Oh, really? I didn’t know that.

Dave Lombardo: First rehearsals were, you know, we were the new guys in the band. And he’s awesome. He’s, he’s great. He’s a great guy to hang out with great personality. Great player. Yeah, you know, we really connect on stage. There’s some sections in suicidal songs, where it’s just drums and bass. And man we lock in, it’s so sweetly this we’re in a pocket. And with with punk music is fast. But you know, there’s still a pocket there’s still you know,

Ari Gold: groove works. Yeah, suicidal tendencies has always been, you know, had that groove. You know, there’s Southern California, they’ve got they’ve got the gotta groove a little bit. They’re not just like act I find a mix. You know, the mix of these lyrics and what you talked about how you’re not so much thinking about the lyrics but with suicidal like, you know, they deal with death, they don’t deal with death by going into the golf house and putting on the kind of like, death thing instead, it’s like, actually talking about death, talking about depression, talking about like, being in a really dark place, and not hiding in the kind of metal trappings and there’s something so beautiful to me about Mike Niro’s lyrics and the way his brutal honesty about the way he’s feeling is mixed with this like hardcore. Talking. No. Bullet Train of energy. To me, it’s such a such a beautiful combination. Yeah, man. He, you know, he’s really, it’s very uplifting. Yeah, exactly. positive message because you acknowledges the dark you can’t have the darkness. I mean, you can’t have the the lightness without actually acknowledging the darkness. Like, Bill Cosby was always like the, the the perfect dad, everyone. And like, even back when I was a kid, I was like, I don’t I don’t trust that guy. He was all sunshine. I’m like, where’s the shadow? Like, there’s something missing here. So like, someone like Mike Muir, like, he shows his shadow, and then you know, that, that the spirit is good? Because he’s like, Hey, here’s the fucking shadow.

Dave Lombardo: You know, I had a conversation, Mike and I got on the phone the other day. And we had a great phone for like, an hour or so. You know, he, he said, I said to him, I said, Man, you know, I’m looking really looking forward to playing again. And, you know, there’s there’s a light at the end of the tunnel. And he said, he started laughing. He’s Dave. I hate to disappoint you. But that light at the end of the tunnel is a training reality check, you know,

Ari Gold: again, perfect. Yeah. You’re Yeah, that

Dave Lombardo: he’s a he’s a realist. And, you know, we may be optimistic, but he knows how to really you. Just

Ari Gold: yeah, but I mean, I can imagine like, there’s been no one. If I was on a boat, you know, in the middle of the ocean, fighting to survive, like, you’d want to have Mike, in that boat with you. I think, you know, I had never met him. I also I mentioned this to Robert, but my sister is Nazi skinhead boyfriend in high school was beat up by the numbers of suicidal tendencies at a show in the 80s. Which, you know, was all right with me.

Dave Lombardo: Well, story, person brief Incorporated. We played a show up in Detroit, and a bunch of skinheads show up, and, you know, they’re all doing their Nazi salute and everything. And, you know, he was British, you know, he’s English. Born raised, you know, scarred in England. And he and he chased those Nazis out of the club at the bottom of his mic stand holding is my standard got off and just when you see these guys running, and Gus GCM with the mic stand out the front door, and then coming back and finishing the song. Oh, my God, that’s beautiful. My view from from my drum stools is the most amazing view.

Ari Gold: Yeah, you You’re like safely protected, and you can see everything,

Dave Lombardo: not during a suicidal show. I’m not safely protecting suicide, OSHA was once my might be, or brings up the the audience on stage. And, you know, there’s times where, you know, some of these, some of these people dancing and jumping around, and there’s so many people on stage that some people fall onto the drumset. But some there was this one guy that was doing it on purpose. And,

Ari Gold: like, I’m like stage diving, but instead of on the people, he was diving into the drumset, a lot of

Dave Lombardo: stage just dancing around. And he was he was acting students, you know, and not being respectful of the gear on stage. And he was purposely but not on purpose, but not on purpose. Yeah, falling off my drum kit. And it was one time I just stopped playing and just don’t for him. I missed. But that was like the one moment that I I lost. Dude, stop being a jerk. Yeah. But yeah, it’s, it’s great. It’s exciting. I miss it. I miss it so much.

Ari Gold: Well, when are you so when you do what’s what’s your life? What’s in your in your horizon for life plank? Oh,

Dave Lombardo: I have two shows in Chicago in September. With Mr. Bungle. We’re playing the Riviera. On the seventh tee that I believe. And then on the 19th or 16th, and the 18th. I’m not too sure. And then we’re playing. The first date is at the Riviera in Chicago. And then the second date is Riot Fest. With miss with Mr. Bronco, and then October I’m playing aftershock festival. Friday, I’m playing with suicidal. And then Saturday I’m playing with the misfits.

Ari Gold: Nice. Yeah, that’s that you’ll be back. Dave’s back. Yeah, that’s awesome. That’s awesome. And you’re still someone’s asking what size snare are you working with? I want to like give someone the technical questions. I’m sure there’s plenty more but that one popped up. What besides snare do you use?

Dave Lombardo: Tama five and a half by 14? hand hammered. Bronze, bronze snare, I believe. Exactly the same one for years. It’s gold. And you hit it. And you hit it. And it’s got these little strings underneath?

Ari Gold: Yeah, yeah, as an air drummer, I play I tend to play DW air drums. Because in Adventures of power, they only gear you see is the DW stool that someone tries to get me to sit in because but I’m like, I believe that a real air drummer doesn’t use this tool, but it is a DW store. And so I’ve been kind of buddies with that. That crew for a bit, but um, yeah. Sponsored air drummer can do whatever he wants. I might I’m open to a sponsorship with symbols. I’m just saying for air symbols. You know, anyone out there as a symbol company?

Dave Lombardo: Yeah. I think they

Ari Gold: are symbols. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And do you have any new misfit stuff coming up?

Dave Lombardo: Oh, yes, actually, I’m getting together with Jerry only next weekend

Ari Gold: to like, write or record or

Dave Lombardo: we’re gonna do some, some little miscellaneous recordings. And we’re going to go over the set for shits and giggles. Just to get ourselves back into shape, and have some fun. Somebody’s gonna be down for a week and really looking forward to that. And so, I mean, we’re still a ways away, but it’s good, you know, just to get reacquainted.

Ari Gold: Right. Or, you know, you’ve been How have you been keeping in shape? You know, in terms of chops? I know. It’s not the same as playing, you know, at home versus on stage, but

Dave Lombardo: it’s not the same. I try. Yeah. Nothing. Nothing compares to have those guitars.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Yeah, playing live. I mean, I tell that to actors to you know, an actor will rehearse a scene in their living room. For you know, however many they can rehearse it and learn it’s a monologue for if they worked for 12 hours, and I’m like, Just go and go out and do it again. straight in front of 10 people or in front of whoever’s walking by and you’ll, those 12 hours, your body and your voice in your mouth will remember more if you’re doing in front of somebody in one hour than you would in 12 hours. And

Dave Lombardo: I can I can imagine that. Yeah, I mean, and it’s a lot of mental work, you know, I believe that a big part of rehearsal is, is going over it in your mind.

Ari Gold: Well, you have like, now you have a catalogue of like, so many bands that you play in like, God, it’s like, you gotta be Bob Dylan in terms of like, the number of songs.

Dave Lombardo: I know, 37 misfits. So dancing is able to call them out. Hey, I want to do this one. I have to know it.

Ari Gold: Right? Instantly. Yeah. My job.

Dave Lombardo: And that cross, you know, there’s probably 1014 1012 Maybe 1213 songs, maybe plus some covers that we do. And then Mr. Bungle and it’s suicidal.

Ari Gold: So a lot of songs,

Dave Lombardo: but you know, a lot of muscle memory, you know, or not muscle memory that, you know, you see your brain like that, I believe, you know, helps a lot in it as you get older.

Ari Gold: Yeah, that’s something I talked about with Neal peered. We went when we released the branches of power, we’re raising money to support music education. And we were talking about the fact that music education for kids, helps them with math helps them with all these other subjects in the school programs that are getting cut. They’re like, Oh, we don’t need music education is like you. I mean, it’s not about making the next Dave Lombardo. That can happen. It’s about the fact that if you play music, you engage with music, your brain is going to be stronger and everything, it’s gonna be stronger. When you’re 90, and it’s going to be stronger when you’re not. For me, it’s going to beat your brain is going to be stronger when you’re 90 and when you’re nine, if you’re playing music,

Dave Lombardo: yeah. Yeah, my mom, she’s, she’s 89. And she reads every day, and she still read. And although our bodies you know, obviously, you know, she’s frail and, but her mind is so sharp, you know, she remembers so much and does not suffer from any kind of dementia, or anything like that. You know, it’s, it’s, there’s something there to be said, you know, reading and I believe listening to music, memorizing music, memorizing patterns, you know, it’s I think it’s beneficial. Long term.

Ari Gold: Yeah. All right. Well, so I’m glad to hear you. We’ll be back out in full force two bands in one weekend in October. Yeah, it’s nice to good life.

Dave Lombardo: And then maybe, maybe there’s something going on in December.

Ari Gold: But I can’t talk about so what Yeah, wow. Okay, so that means there is something going on. If you can’t talk about it, that’s a good sign.

Dave Lombardo: Like four other albums that I’m gonna be releasing. I don’t know how soon I’ve completed. Three, I believe there’s gonna be three releases that are complete. And I one day I’m almost done

Ari Gold: with so and you can’t say who they’re with

Ari Gold: Shania Twain, I know. I just let the cat out of the bag. Shania Twain. Oops, what should I oops. They want someone saying people want a Dave solo album with guest musicians. Think about it. If you need a guest, air drummer, let me know be happy to like do a duet with you.

Dave Lombardo: After I saw the movie, there’s some potential there.

Ari Gold: And I’ve done some light I did. I did you know I did eventually power but also done live shows I did. Played in front of 7000 people in Finland. I did hot for teacher. And in those I did a 62nd cut of sovereign future all legs in a squat. Like you know double bass, two arms. Those 60 seconds My heart was pounding like I had. I had run a marathon. My heart is pounding for four hours after that 1/62 guy. There’s a joke in the movie that air drumming is a lot harder than drumming. Then real drumming because you have to. You don’t have anything to bounce again. So you’re using all the strength to like pushing both directions. So you know just saying putting it out there if you need it, let me know. So maybe we’ll wrap up. And let me just scroll to see if there’s any emergency questions from from fans. Someone’s going to there’s a lot of hellos from South America from Argentina and Brazil. I have seen a lot of you got a lot of fans in that continent. So and Chile Yeah. Someone just know someone saying no, don’t go Zorn sore Jorn? Yeah. Well, okay, so look, we got we, I think we can, even though people don’t seem to be enjoying this, maybe we’ll, we’ll sign off because it’s been a nice, long talk. So what can I say? You know, follow Dave Lombardo on Instagram. If you don’t already, I’m I’m Ari Gold. I’m at Ari Gold on Instagram. I’m on the Modern Drummer account right now, because Modern Drummer has been co sponsoring this initiative to talk to drummers talk about drumming, talk about air drumming and hindrances to power and raise awareness of MusiCares. So, once again, please go to musicares.org and donate and watch advances of power on Amazon for free. And Amazon will sends me money and then I send it to MusiCares. So, you know, and it’s a great movie. So it says Dave Lombardo. And Neil Pierce said, In a word, yeah, in two words, fuck yeah. And then again, he’s in it. So he had the right to do that. But by the way, did you ever hang out with Neil peered

Dave Lombardo: never met you regret in my life. You know, I really wish I could, you know, met the guy. He’s a genius was a genius. He was a trailblazer. You know, his style, his sound. You know, I, I first heard rush when they released movie pictures. Because I was, you know, I was in high school at the time when that album came out. And anything prior to moving pictures, I really didn’t, you know, get into because I was, I was in a higher main Judy’s buddies.

Ari Gold: They seem to Prague for you or something.

Dave Lombardo: It was just a little different for me. Yeah. And, you know, but I appreciate it. I mean, I bought the CD, you know, I have a compilation, Rush compilation. And, you know, I studied it, listen to what he was doing. And, you know, like, all drummers, you know, when you listen to something, when a drummer is very special and unique, you absorb and you take from that. And he definitely had that, that magic to you know, go beyond the speakers and, you know, hit the person or the drummer to the you know, the upcoming drummer listening to him inspire

Ari Gold: them. Yeah. Yeah, brain massage. His drumming is like brain massage for me. He, we did a drum off I don’t know if you’ve seen it’s not in the movie. But after the movie, which makes a big joke of an air drummer trying to play Tom Sawyer. We did a live we filmed a performance of of me, air drumming right next to him. Real drumming, Tom Sawyer, and I put on YouTube and like, there were so many people there like a lot of people loving it. But a lot of people like it was their life dream to do that. They’re like, Who is this is all here. Join me next to meal period, I should be doing it because he would joke about he’d say, like every show, he’d look off and on one side there just be like this row of people like doing every single hit. Like my character does, but it’s so

Dave Lombardo: perfect. At least for me moving pictures. And Tom Sawyer was the perfect song to eardrum. I remember when that was released. You know, there was a bunch of people in high school but you kids, you know, friends of mine, you know, they have a little boombox, you know, I’m playing the cassette. And everybody thought, oh,

Ari Gold: yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Dave Lombardo: He did. He he. That might have been the beginning of airtronic. Movement.

Ari Gold: Well, I mean, I do a lot of your drumming happening to Led Zeppelin for sure. I mean, I like ramble on like the you know, the the kick drum off beat on ramble on It’s good. I mean, I was dreaming that before I got into Russia, I think you have it actually. Public. In public. Yeah. Maybe in public. Yeah.

Dave Lombardo: To show that, hey, I know this part.

Ari Gold: Right, right. Yeah, it’s true. It’s true.

Dave Lombardo: It’s, you know, it’s a terrible loss. Life sucks, you know? Yeah.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Yeah, he was a, he was a really sweet, amazing, generous person. And so, you know, influential to me as a person as an artist. And like, when he mentioned, the power came out, and like, nobody cared because we did this tiny, no money, and it was like, and he was like, so encouraging. He was like, this is your, you’re an artist, and you remind me of when Ross was starting out, and like, you know, it was, he knew what to say exactly the right time when I was feeling punched in the nose by like, you know, making a movie and nobody gave a shit, you know? Like, so yeah, he’s an adventurer, actually, if you can, if anyone’s watching wants to go to air drummer.com. We have, we have lots of mentions of Dave Lombardo. You’re on multiple pages. We have pages for for a bunch of the bands you’re in. It’s like, because you’re in most bands. Websites gonna get big but but yeah, so and there’s a Neil Pierre page as well, where I have the videos that I made with him. So people want to watch that are there for free. But, but yeah, he was a beautiful soul. Beautiful soul.

Dave Lombardo: I hear. That’s what I hear from everyone.

Ari Gold: Yeah, when you hear it from a lot of people, you start to realize it’s probably true. And if you hear that somebody’s asshole from a lot of people. It’s probably true as well. I’m sure you’ve met some of those do. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So we will sign off. People are willing to say goodbye. This whole time, please ask about the new dead cross album, please.

Dave Lombardo: Well, we’re still waiting. You know, I’m still waiting for Patton to wrap up the vocals. You know, he’s got a lot on his plate. He’s working on a lot of stuff. So some of these things they take time

Ari Gold: and take time. Yeah. Okay. You know, patience, folks. Patience.

Dave Lombardo: Patience. Yeah, yeah. Time.

Ari Gold: In time. There we That’s the perfect closer for interview is your air drumming. You’re making a little pun. Yeah, it’s working. Alright, so thank you all so much. I can’t believe how many of you stayed on for how long this was an I wish we were all getting a beer or those who don’t have a beer or getting a lemonade. And see you on the road. Go check out Dave’s multiple bands hard to keep track of them but catch you. They want to Dave’s got it.

Dave Lombardo: I’ll be there. I’ll be in your town.

Ari Gold: And love from Russia too. That just came through.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Yeah. So really great talking with you and catch you. Catch you somewhere.

Dave Lombardo: Thanks, Ari. Make sure to hit us up if I’m ever in your town.

Ari Gold: I will and and I’ll send you this punk video, because I think you’re gonna find it super inspiring. Love this. Yeah, it’s the singer’s name is yummy. So cute. And she is a badass, and she’s a true believer.

Dave Lombardo: So what’s the name of the band again?

Ari Gold: Yumi so ...well right now it’s just her and her friends. That basically her name is yumi. And she goes by yumi So cute. I mean, she doesn’t have a following yet. But I’m, I’m going to I’m taking it upon myself to the video is amazing. So I’m gonna be posting it next week on my you know, everything my Instagram, Ari Gold and and she’s putting together one two. I know it sounds unconvincing, but like I think she’s gonna be a star. I believe. Yeah.

Dave Lombardo: I can’t wait to check it out. Yeah. This is the video you were working on. You worked on right.

Ari Gold: I started that. And then I was biking down Venice Beach and I saw her like screaming into a microphone in front of a U haul. And I pull my bike around and like there were all these kids like, just going crazy on the parking lot. I mean, not that many like 20 of them, but their style was amazing. They were like, you know had you know Dead Kennedys misfits and and so I stopped and asked what was up and you know, she gave me her kind of like mission statement of what she was doing. And she had come out from Texas and some of them from Cleveland. And she was living in her car and she was trying to bring punk and bring punk to the black community and bring black to the punk community was there sort of like, what she said, you know, like and she’s just kind of on fire. And it was backing tracks. It was just a recording, you know, Word to the wise in advance. But I think she’ll have a bad soon enough and yeah, just when you see the video, see, it’s like, you know, sometimes you meet someone you’re like, you know, your eyeballs fall off. And so anyway, I was like, Look, I’d love to help you. Any way I can. Let me make a video for you. And so, so I’m cutting it right now. Because actually, it’s caught. I’m just doing the color. I wanted to be like, look perfect, Jordans? Yeah, let me know. I will. Catch you later. Such a pleasure.

Dave Lombardo: pleasure talking with you. Hey, folks, remember Musiccares. You know, go on there and help them out. They help musicians. I know many musicians that have helped during this pandemic, and it’s a great organization, and definitely.

This interview originally appeared on Hotsticks.fm.

See more about Dave Lombardo on the official site for Adventures of Power, the world’s greatest (and only) Air Drum Movie!

Enjoyed this session? Explore more from the Interviews Archive.

The Rhythm of Resilience

Sitting down with Adam Gomez and Spike T Smith is a masterclass in the evolution of the professional beat. We explore the bridge between Spike’s legendary tenure with punk icons like The Damned and Morrissey and Adam’s surgical precision in the modern session world. The conversation dives deep into the “physics” of the ensemble—how two different generations maintain the same relentless standard of excellence whether they are in a high-stakes studio or in front of a stadium crowd.

Grit and the Pocket

Beyond the technical fills, we get into the mental stamina required to survive and thrive in the upper echelons of the music industry. Adam and Spike break down the discipline of “playing for the song” and the resilience needed to find a unique creative voice within the rigid structure of a professional session. This is an unfiltered look at the life of the working drummer: a document of two masters who understand that the pocket isn’t just a musical space—it’s a way of life.

Watch video version here:

RAW TRANSCRIPT (Pardon the old-school glitches):

Ari Gold: Antonio will be joining us in a second. So question. So we’ve got a cool set of punk drummers here like Adam, do you do no spike, like what is your friendship? How does? Is this a professional friendship or is this have you guys actually been on a stage together ever? Yeah. So spike and I and I’m sure spike remembers this. We met officially at rebellion. And this was what three years ago?

Spike T. Smith: Yeah, yeah, I see. posts come up. Actually. It was like an anniversary. Probably yesterday. Post came up. And it was the photo was all outside, you know, the back entrance to rebellion where everybody goes to, you know, smoke cigarettes and whatnots I suppose. Yeah, I guess.

Adam Gomez: So. Yeah. So we all hung out in the back. And we’ve seen each other a couple of times at rebellion and that’s where we’ve really chatted in person hung out

Ari Gold: with and, and who were you playing with rebellions back at that time?

Spike T. Smith: Well, that year, let me think that year, and I don’t think I was playing I just went to to spectate. So I’ve kind of got a long history with rebellion over the years. Are you know, so it’s like, I’ve played there were many different acts. But that year, I wasn’t playing. But often if I’m not playing, I’ll still try and go for a day or two, you know?

Ari Gold: Okay, because I have to say, first one, so maybe Adam doesn’t remember this. I actually got up and sang a song with the Dickies.

Ari Gold: Oh, really? Yeah. Did they were you? Were you trying to replace the singer? Officially? Was this a Trump a drummer getting too big for his britches too big for drum kit?

Spike T. Smith: When it wasn’t that Yeah, it wasn’t that far off. It was, it was probably more drama provide, though, because the kids were in a tricky situation where they were single less. And Adam will obviously be able to tell you more about it, but they were basically hunting for really singers to, you know, that might know a song or two so that they could still commit to playing, you know, and, and, you know, so they had people like, you know, different people, as you know, I don’t remember. And I happen to be on the side of the stage. Well, well, they were pulling it together. And I said, you know, I know a song. And they suddenly turned to me and said, Well, what song you know, and I said wagon train, and they were like, Can you can you really sing it? And I was like, Yeah, I’ll be able to do it. And so they put me down because I suppose it was a more unusual choice, you know, and it was, you know, part of the set rather than me saying, you know, thumbnail are one of the obvious ones where they probably have 10 people with wanting to sing it. And so they put me down and then not long before it came up. Before it was my turn to come on. I thought, What am I doing? I’m not a singer Why am I put my name up for the title, not what I’m doing. And then, you know, I had a couple more drinks and I thought I’ve seen enough of the CEOs, you know, for what they did. You know, I’ll be able to do it. And I went on and it was it was a real, real buzz.

Ari Gold: I mean, that’s how that’s how Henry Rollins got into Black Flag, right? He like stumbled on in some gig and made it happen.

Adam Gomez: He was always at the gigs and one day they just call them up. You get up there.

Spike T. Smith: Well A story that that I see recently, and this is sort of the fact that last time I played in rebellion was with this was with this guy HR from Bad Brains. Apparently, apparently, he told Henry he was a singer. And he said, No, no, no, I’ve never sang and the HF ologists know, Henry, you’re a singer, and gave him a mic to sing with Bad Brains that would be for Black Flag.

Ari Gold: Oh, wait, this is, oh, this is way back when you’re talking about this is way before he even formed his own band. He was to sort of being at a bad brain show when this little thing happened. So and, yeah, and I’ve seen him, you know, like, retelling that story very recently, you know, on an interview, saying, you know, and I don’t think it was even an interview about him singing it was one of his other things. But they happened to ask God, how did you get into singing? I said, Well, you know, you know, the funny story is I was never thinking I was going to be a singer. And you know, when he just told the story about how he kind of, you know, telling the viewers good telling him to be seeing it.

Ari Gold: Well, okay, so, talk a little bit about this thing of like being, you know, being a journeyman performer, whether it’s drummer or singer as we talked about, I mean, you know, Adam, you in your life when you joined the Dickies. I mean, Spike segment is talking about New York because obviously it’s like insane band to play with, but like, you know, I know your history you played with Morrissey, and you also played with Chinese pop star, which I want to hear about. I want to hear about the Chinese AppStore. But so how are you playing? When you’re, you know, I assume both of you come from like a punk motivated background, but then you branch out into other things too. And so well, I guess, I’d love to hear from Adam like, about joining the Dickies what that looks like.

Adam Gomez: Okay, so long, I’ll make a long story short. So I was I was just fresh out of EMI. So I got my percussion degree in music school, out in Hollywood. And as soon as I got out of there, I started teaching drums. But I wanted to tour right? So I found a band on Craigslist looking for. And we went out to Europe, paid nothing actually paid money to do the tour. Right. So I like got gotten tour Europe off of a Craigslist ad. That already Yeah, kind of Exilis ad, you know, give me pain, looking for someone.

Adam Gomez: Yeah, and that that’s how I’ve got other gigs or just good things. We’re going to Regulus and you end up finding as long as you’re searching and searching. But yeah, I got that tour under my belt through Craigslist through a band called Blood hook in LA, hard workers, and they happen to know and already kind of be punched into the LA scene with punk bands. So even though they weren’t an old band or historic classic punk band, they were always working, they were always playing, and they always jump on bills with other historic punk bands. So that creates kind of created a connection. So anyway, I played with them for a couple years. All of a sudden a band called di from SoCal. And older punk rock band needed a drummer, they knew the band I was in. They called them and said, Hey, we need drum for night, man, can we borrow your drummer? And they’re like, Yeah, cool. So to me that was I was over the moon just being able to sub you know, play for di for one night. And a year later they the bass player Eddie called me back and said, Hey, man, it’s been a while do you got a passport? And I said, Yeah, can you tour it? I’m like, yeah, he’s like, Alright, I got you an audition for the Dickies because our terms on the way out. So that was kind of how I got the shoe in there. I had already grew up being a fan of the Dickies being a fan of stuff spikes been and even Antonio, you know, it’s going to be joining us in a few minutes. I I’ve always been a fan of like TSL so I grew up with metal and punk. And then going to that school I kind of broaden my like technical skills just like the touch of r&b like having a certain type of r&b and different stuff like that.

Ari Gold: it’s the same thing to like, learn metal and Punk in school. I mean, I What did you learn in school that I guess you said technique, but like it’s a it’s a bizarre thing to me somehow, like I mean, maybe as a professional air drummer who I I never was. I feel like there’s a There’s maybe a stigma against, like studying the craft. But like,

Adam Gomez: there there kind of is. I mean, there kind of is. But there’s a lot of us like, especially spike like spike does drum educational videos, and he teaches and I teach so like we’re, we’re well aware of, maybe within music fans are the punk scene of just purely fans, there is a stigma, there can be a stigma of, you know, Oh, dude, you go to that school or you go to music school, you’re gonna come out a robot and blah, blah, blah. And I get that because some people do, and I’m sure spike would agree with that. But there’s some people like, like me, and Spike and others where when you go into that game, you already know what you want to get out of it. So it doesn’t completely transform, you just you just end up gaining an arsenal of skill rather than walking in there and being molded and formed and then being spat back out.

Ari Gold: Right, right. So then you can you can call on these different skills based on who you end up with. Yeah, yeah. Okay, well, that makes sense. I mean, I made my air drumming official by entering the Guinness Book of World Records. So some would say that was a sellout. But to actually teach people skills to win when I did the Guinness record set event, which has actually happened, I mean, this is so bizarre, but this is actually part of my life. I had to teach 2300 people, certain air drum moves in order to qualify, so they had to have an aerodrome expert. So I was the expert. And then I had to teach moves to you know, the plebeians the new aerodrome there. So I and they wanted me to combine a couple of different bands and there had to be an AC DC reference because the the house band at this casino where we did it was DC cover band. So I incorporated some Neal peered and some, you know, some Phil Rudd and Tommy Lee and few other things. But I hear, by the way, it’s being a new period of spike that I know that Neil was a big influence. Do you ever get to work with him?

Spike T. Smith: I never did you know, that, you know, shame on my part, I got quite close once because I went to one of the shows that I got, I got invited to go into the show by the sound man. And he did get me a pass, but not to actually go to dressing rooms or whatever. But, you know, to go to see him, you know, at the desk. And I knew the venue is that it was a place. Well, it’s Birmingham in the UK, there’s got to be, you know, arena. And they were playing that and this they were playing I thought I’d been there before. And I’ve got a story that’s to do with Eric Clapton with the same venue but a different time. And I thought, Well, I knew the venue so I thought I’m gonna see if this pass will get me you know, behind you know, where can I get to the backstage area anyway, I went and I got on and and you know, Rush were playing you know, the how they used to do two sets, for a number of you know, that not final year for probably the past 15 years, or somebody they did too. So there must have been in that first set. Anyway, I went and I thought, if I walk this way and do here and go down that I’m sure I’ll end up behind the stage. And I literally did this and went through some curtains and just not what I was about seven or eight feet in front of me, you know, with Neil, I was so close. I could see Stan shaking with the hair symbol. Well, that was you know, like, you know, that’s as close as I got to him. I mean, it was an amazingly you know, probably got closer to what I wanted to see watching them play them that never met him.

Ari Gold: standing behind him. You’re close to his set. Did you start air drumming?

Spike T. Smith: No, do you know why because I was hiding because I wasn’t supposed to be there.

Ari Gold: And your fingers, your fingers and my toes?

Unknown Speaker: I’ll tell you what was going my foot because there was a pattern that I loved in the song Levina strange Yeto and I never quite figured out I could so I could do this funny little ghost note on the higher which sounds a bit odd. But you know, I think I think I can use it but when I played it it never sounded right. And I happened to be behind the planet and I seen that he played the note with his hand and then with his foot so I immediately was probably taught a lug nut so did it and then I got spotted and you know

Ari Gold: I’m one of the crew. Right, okay.

Spike T. Smith: And he came to me and he said to because what the hell are you doing? I don’t think that he could believe that somebody was there, you know, that wasn’t part of the answer. And I sent them. I said, I’m here with brides that that’s the soundman, that we brought brands, you know, like, I’m just here with Brian. Yeah. And then they said, You better go because you shoot a towel. I’m not supposed to be here. Yeah. So that’s my little Neopian story.

Ari Gold: Well, when I when I did my drum off with him, promoting our movie Adventures of power, I got to be right next to his kit, but he Boyer and I play air drum, Tom Sawyer right next to him and then laughs and I collapsed from my head right against the kick drum. So I feel like there are weirdos all over the world who resented me for having that privilege. That one day, they would eardrum next to Neil period. And he would say, nice job. You know? He said to me, but yeah, he was a big influence on on me as a sort of wannabe drummer as an air drummer. And obviously, if you’ve seen Adventures of power, he’s, you know, central to the movie. You know, he’s like, the, the religious figure in the way, I think in the way I read, you know, he has started any kind of air drumming phenomenon, because although people have always done it, it seems to come to the forefront about him on his part, because they were so recognizable and more so because there was so composed and clear, you know, you don’t have to be a drummer, you kind of got the idea. You know, you know, I mean, other drummers have it too. Like maybe Phil Collins, and you know, and whatnot. And, you know, I’m probably even Dave Grohl when, you know, now. That was all been built. Yeah. Okay. So as you know, Neil, pay a team to have like, lots of them. That’s the thing. So it always became a rite of passage didn’t go to a rush concert. And EDrum you know?

Ari Gold: Yeah. I don’t know if you’ve heard this question before it was gone by so I would just change the subject is that I find it so fascinating. That you play for a Chinese pop star. I really want to hear what that was like how that happened. Maybe compare working with a Chinese pop star to working with Morrissey?

Spike T. Smith: Yeah, well. Yeah, that was I checked. And I was never really aware of a popularity because the popularity really was, you know, like in China. But I was I was in I was working in London with a band. And it was just one of those things where one of the members of the band Do you know the band Gang of Four? Yeah, of course, you know, yeah. I mean, I guess you know, that, you know, well, it was one of the members of Gang of Four was managing. And it was to do with him that he somehow sort of hooked us up. And sorry,

Ari Gold: he was managing the Chinese popstar.

Unknown Speaker: Well, or somebody had got in touch, you know, with him what she was looking for. She wanted to come election, she wanted to come over to the UK. She wanted to come over to the UK and work with British musicians that seemed to be you know, what, what she was looking for. So she, you know, she came over, we were booked into a pretty nice lavish studio in London, you know, one of the, you know, real pro ones. And she just came with like, she’s really he’s like a, like a kind of an acoustic as I certainly that’s how she started with the songs, you know, like a lot too. But she really seemed to be pushing that she wanted this. You know, like, British feel and vibe. I’m probably when you mentioned in the Morrissey thing, that probably would have been something that she would have are people around the with the like, you know, because he is a was so you know, quintessentially British. You know? It wasn’t that different actually, because I’ve not long been working with Morrissey. I took a lot of the fields from my point that I thought, you know, were inherent to his songs, and put them as suggestions to the songs I worked on with her. But I want him to leave on the costume. It’s a whole band that was working with trying to shape the songs up, you know. And then I didn’t hear anything. I didn’t hear anything of that. Ah, for a good 15 years and then recently, I found a video of it on YouTube as you do

Ari Gold: when you found a video with you in it or or just

Unknown Speaker: No, no, no, just yourself, you know that, you know, one of the songs that we did that she obviously put out as a single I guess, you know she’s you know, she was she’s obviously this big Chinese that is that have come to work with British musicians and the song we did was called New York. So,

Ari Gold: you know, it’s all part of England in her in her mind. Yeah,

Spike T. Smith: that’s right. You know, so.

Ari Gold: So yeah, so So old York, New York. You’re like, yeah, yeah. Okay, well, that’s cool. That’s go strange turn of events in life. So, Adam, I’d love to talk with you like, you know, you’ve played with like the adolescence as well too, right. Is that Is that right?

Adam Gomez: Yeah, correct.

Unknown Speaker: And are you like now exclusively with with Dickies? Are you like still do journeyman stuff? Like Chinese pops?

Unknown Speaker: Yeah, well, I actually still do. So yeah, I’m exclusively with the Dickies. And it’s been almost a decade now. So I joined in 2013. So it’s almost been a decade, and I still do journeyman stuff here and there. I played with DRI, like a couple of weeks ago,

Unknown Speaker: tell us a weird job you’ve had as a drummer, you know, along the lines of what, like, what’s the weirdest job you’ve had?

Unknown Speaker: And we’re just drum jobs. I think I’ve got a couple a couple of offers that were not weird, but they were just kind of seemed too weird for me. Because I don’t think I’ve really gotten a weird drum job to be honest, we I’ve never had anything to it’s like, right. I’m doing what

Unknown Speaker: where the spike spikes kind of outclassing you with this Chinese pop star stuff? Yeah, absolutely. Morrissey tiny pumps, our connection is kind of pretty rad. But more legit, like I will.

Unknown Speaker: I do have one that’s super cool. I wouldn’t consider it weird. But maybe we’re to other people. Or unique I guess. The Dickies a few years ago, we actually teamed up with the composer to killer clowns from outer space that that wrote the score and everything. John was sorry. And what we did was we actually did a live score to film showing of the movie. So what that was was literally people came to the theater out and out in LA it was called the Montell bond theater, I think it was they came out to see the movie. And underneath the screen was the entire orchestra, the Hollywood Chamber Orchestra that played along to the movie played the whole score and the Dickies were there for the beginning because if if you know the movie or if you’ve watched the movie, The Dickies have that song killer clowns from outer space. And it plays in the opening credits of that movie, and also plays at the end. So we were also there as special guests, and we played along to the screen to the movie at the same time. So that was unique. Maybe not weird, but super fun. That was really cool.

Ari Gold: Okay, I think that’s, that’s a legit answer.

Spike T. Smith: That’s a good story with an orchestra.

Ari Gold: What was that spike?

Unknown Speaker: I’ve got an interesting story, I’ll tell you quickly with an orchestra and I got to, they needed like, you know, well, you know, as a, you know, a drummer, well, with an orchestra, they don’t really want drummers, they want percussion players. So it’s covering anything that’s within it, you know, there was a composer that, you know, somewhere, local, somewhat local to the region that I live in, and they needed to make sure percussion is so that, you know, somebody got in touch we can you do it. I was like, Yeah, you know, send me the score. But of course, you know, I can read a bit, but not to that again, you say yes, first,

Adam Gomez: then you figure it out later. That’s how

Unknown Speaker: I’m you know, this thing I’d like, you know, like, however many but like, you know, 1000 bars or something, it was quite a long piece. And so, I went for the afternoon and we didn’t rehearse everything because, you know, there was like a, like an ATP squire that went there. So, but the conductor wanted to go through a few you know, like sort of segments. Anyway, we went to it and he told us, we’re gonna start this from you know, power 322. So, you know, you’re looking through your, your pages anyway, so I did it. And I figured those bits out. Anyway, I thought, Jesus, I’ve really got my work cut out and I went home and I looked at some of these parts. It’s like, there was one part I remembered like, which was a Triangle paths. Now everybody always makes the joke about the triangle, though they Oh, I can’t play with that I’ll play the triangle. So, you know, anyway, so I looked at it, I thought, yeah, okay, this part doesn’t come up to like, you know, five 750 or something. So I’ve done that a little bit, a little bit of snare drum in here. You know, like a little bit of sound effects stuff there, some cymbal washes here. And, you know, you have to count all the way through, you don’t have to know where you are, nobody’s telling you, you know, right, you’re on to am to bury and, and for your whatever, you got to know where you are, you’re counting all the way through following the notes. And I came up to the triangles bit. And the triangle bit, you know, should have been on the off B. So you know, so it’s kind of like, you know, that the B is kind of, I should have gone with a triangle, then then then then then thank, you know, you know, the offbeat, but when I came up to it, I just went I remember, I’ve got the triangle bit wrong. I was telling people about it after, and they were, you know, they said that there was no edge and I thought the Cabal would generally say the audience with a no. And this performance was for him. You know, I mean, there was a hole in the ground performance service fees. So

Ari Gold: instrument of the hole, and you messed it up.

Adam Gomez: That was the apex of the performance was the triangle and you fucked up, buddy.

Spike T. Smith: I messed it up. I messed it up royally. Yes. We might say. Yeah. Well, I couldn’t be more wrong.

Ari Gold: Wait, so wait, why did you play? What you didn’t see that it was an offbeat or you figured it out? At the moment? It was happening? No, I

Spike T. Smith: did. But it was yeah, it was just kind of you know, like with with with all the reading and you know, that just the pressure of it all and and everything. I probably missed me when I was trying to follow a conductor which I wasn’t used to you know, and it was just you know, I was a fish out of water you know, so

Ari Gold: yeah, well, admirable to go into triangle. Golf. You start with alternative attack, and then you end up playing the triangle. And

Ari Gold: if when you formed alternative attacked, you knew that later on, you would be playing triangle in orchestra, how would you felt

Spike T. Smith: was sad to start to think back with that young lad in alternative attack with Mako the triangle? Probably locked it across the room? And probably the conductor. That’s what I’d probably done.

Ari Gold: Yeah. All right. So yeah, I mean, messing up the messing up is a wonderful hearing lifelike as a drummer. And also, I mean, it’s harder when it’s scripted, you know, orchestral orchestral music, but I know whether it well, when I played music, when you make a mistake, and then you do it again, in the next bar to make the listener thing. Yeah. So directing, directing a scene for a movie, like, you know, you can embarrass yourself in front of an audience later, or you can embarrass yourself and from the actors, or when I was doing when I was playing power in the movie and air drumming, I had excited my air drumming was pretty spot on, but I would sometimes like I fell over a few times I broke my arm on set, while I laugh was messed up. I mean, then we had to like delay the rest of the shoot for six months because my it’s wow, I get air drum with a broken arm. But you can use mistakes. I mean, mistakes can be great tools to make more, actually, when I did a few scenes with the broken arm and one of them one of the funniest little movie I think it’s I don’t if you guys have seen Adventures of power. Yeah, but there’s a scene where i i My character has just had a heart to heart with Michael McKean with my dad and he’s encouraging me to keep going. And I’m inspired to tear off my sweatpants. And I wanted to do this like glorious thing where like, I tear them off and they just tear it like they just fly off of my at the payphone, right at the payphone. Yeah, but it was written that I would that it would tear them off. Oh, but my you know, my arm was had was broke 48 hours before we shot that scene because we postpone good. But there were a few locations that were like we locked down this location by this ship. And we’re like we have. So I went with a cast and look who we am wearing, wearing a sweater. And you can see the cast section. Yeah. And I hang up the phone. I still wanted to have this moment of my couldn’t. Like we’re on set, and I tried to grab them and my, my arm was in such pain, because the braid was really fast. I couldn’t close my hands to tear the sweatpants off so quickly, I was like, alright, let’s, let’s strap this short, the strap this sweatpants to the the payphone with a wire, and then cut them on the side and put Velcro on it now run away from the phone, and they’ll just magic. Much better job because like I start running away from the phone, and then it’s just kind of like, they just like stop and like, what the hell just happened? And I keep running? And it was yeah, you know, it was a great. It’s kind of like, okay, what do you do with a mistake? What do you do with Prop? Yeah,

Adam Gomez: well, that moment in the movie is it’s, it’s really, it’s funny at the same time. It’s one of the scenes where it’s like, it’s funny, and it didn’t make sense in that moment. But then it makes sense. Because it actually you have this serious moving moving scene, and then all of a sudden that kind of breaks it back. Right to Yeah, yeah. So it was, it didn’t make sense to the viewer. But it was still funny. And it’s still like, emotionally, it worked.

Ari Gold: Good. It was one of those things like I need to film.

Ari Gold: Michael McKean is so good in a scene, he’s in the hospital. And like, we shot that a few months before, and then my scene and I’m like, I’m on painkillers, I’m stressed out. But uh, shoot quickly before we got to leave this location. And I felt like, totally bring the emotion as well as I wanted to for that scene. But at least the guy works.

Unknown Speaker: Yeah, and spike. Yeah, you got to see that movie, man. It’s hilarious. It’s great. It’s really, it’s really funny. But there’s these few moments that are just really just, like, hit you. They’re real. You know what I mean. But the most of it’s just,

Unknown Speaker: I think, I know, it’s on Amazon in the States, but I’m pretty sure it’s on Amazon Prime also in the UK? For free.

Unknown Speaker: Check it out. Definitely check it out. Definitely. Yeah. I mean, you know, I’m keen to see it.

Unknown Speaker: Yeah, it’s adventures to power. And if you can’t get on Amazon Go to air drummer.com. And there’s, I think different links to different countries. Hopefully, one of them will work. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker: We talked with a drummers that you invited to take part in it with any kind of supportive, you know, did they enjoy it?

Unknown Speaker: Well, the the first, you know, the only drummer who’s in the movie, he appeared, and he was amazing. And he was such a gentleman and had such a great sense of humor about it. And, you know, I mean, I didn’t know when I wrote a fan letter saying, Hey, I’d love you to be in this movie where I play an air drum. I mean, it’s like, no idea if that letter is going to get to him. And no circle, like it went from my music supervisor to take a good shoni who’s is you know, kind of Anthem, day to day met with the main manager and armed by the letter and pass it to him? And he said, Yes. So I was completely shocked that he agreed to be in the movie. And he did say, I mean, you mentioned, you know, saying, you know, onstage excellent ladies. And the thing of like playing when you join another band temporarily or trying to collaborate with someone, they want you to do the obscurities, and he was like, do you have to use Tom Sawyer in the movie? You know, he was like, how about using something a little more? Like, I was? No, I understand. And I but I’m sorry. Is is the song that when I was whatever I was, you know, eight years old. Like, I suddenly my brain exploded when I heard the song and I was like, I know it’s a cliche, but it is kind of the the air drum song that people think of. Collins in the air tonight and that songs in the movie although Phil

Unknown Speaker: did Neil make a suggestion for another song?

Unknown Speaker: He I don’t think he did. He just wanted me to like think about maybe doing I mean, I did later perform, not obscure but I performed YYC at a air drum concert in Germany.

Ari Gold: Like, obviously, there’s tons. There’s tons of songs to choose from, I just chose like the most, the most obvious of obvious, but he went with it, and then like, ended up supporting the movie from often. So he was amazing. And then, you know, promoting the movie. At the time, I met some other drummers at Thompson, who then came on this show. In March, I think it was. And then there’s just been a lot of drummers that I’ve met through, you know, I didn’t have the rights to the movie for a long time, it got bought for almost no money by this like, company that went bankrupt. And it was like classic, just, I mean, you know, same thing with like, you know, the masters of your recordings, like you get a fight to get them back. And yeah, I didn’t get the rights back to the movie. And I finally got the rights back last year. So, you know, did a little rereleased with a new company, where we’ve decided to give the money to music care. So anyone who watches the movie on Amazon, get a few pennies, pay money to buy it on Vimeo, we get a little more money and send it to music, great organization that supports musicians in need, helps with the addiction issues for some musicians.

Unknown Speaker: It’s a good cause and but the pre release happening around the you know it while I was planning it, and then when Neil died, really change the way I felt about the release, and I recut the credits misspelled in the credits, and I wasn’t able to like on my laptop, figure out how to like fix the spelling, which is embarrassing, but I you know, he, you know, he, he never He never liked give me shit for that. So I’ve kind of felt all right about it. But anyway, I fixed it in

Ari Gold: which I was able to superimpose on it. And so I put a little dedicated and in the credits out, but anyway, all of that and like the interviews I did with him, me over these. So people spend whatever it is 10 bucks on Vimeo they got all these bonuses with Neil and I think I lost what your other COVID Guys

Unknown Speaker: I Sorry to interrupt, but I think I lost the audio. So I’m going to I’m going to skip out and jump right back in. I don’t know if you guys can hear me. We can hear you. Yeah, yeah, I can’t hear you guys whatsoever. I just it just skipped out. But let me I’m going to jump out and come right back and see what happens.

Ari Gold: Oh, watch. Okay. Okay. So yeah, and then recently, I’ve had you know, we had Dave Lombardo on the show. We’ve had amazing, amazing people truly benign Tei which is a big, big list of people who have joined recently, so

Spike T. Smith: yeah, well, I’m really pleased to be here.

Ari Gold: Hold on. He’s coming back. Okay, by the way. Work. Are we talking about promoting your music? I’m just reading some of the questions now. Adam, did you get that at work?

Adam Gomez: Yeah, I think I can hear you guys.

Unknown Speaker: You guys put. Yeah. Okay. So I see a question. Are you talking about promoting your music? I would assume that’s for you guys. Since I’m not doing music anymore. Except thing. Singing in the shower. You want to talk about what you’ve got coming up? I mean, Adams since you just got back and now your voice is with us. What’s the Dickies? Have any releases coming up?

Unknown Speaker: Yeah, we’re actually working on what are singer Leonard calls the last album. So we’re working on we’re working on

Ari Gold: getting technique.

Adam Gomez: Yeah, I guess so. I mean, they’ve been around for what 44 years about now. And you know, the original guys are getting older and I don’t know if it’s the touring or anything.

Spike T. Smith: Oh, he’s done. He’s gone. And it’s gone. Okay, well, so. You is frozen. Yeah. What do you have coming up?

Unknown Speaker: Well, I’ve got my first shows coming up. I’m actually playing my first show, you know, in 18 months tomorrow. That’s a warm up show because I am playing a big you know, like, heavy metal festival called bloodstock over here that’s happening next week. Like son with. Yeah. And I’m currently playing in the death metal band called memoriam over here, which, you know, a bunch of musicians kind of you know, we’re on a similar age, we’ve all got histories playing with various people. And I used to play with a bass player in the band in the 80s, called sacrilege. And, you know, he’s formed this band with a singer from another death metal band called bolt thrower. So they’re all about that. Well, I just recorded that fourth album with him. You know, they’ve done three albums, and I recorded the fourth one. Last what you called fall autumn. And we’ve been, you know, we’ve been sheduled to play probably like Adam, throughout the whole thing, but it’s obviously been just getting that won’t be happening. No, you won’t be doing it December, nothing in January looked at to match nothing, then bah, bah, bah. And the first show is happening for me is this Saturday. But we’ve got a little warm up show that I wanted to put in because I’ve never played live with them. So you know, it was like, Well, I don’t find you really made debut being you know, at a bigger festival. I’d like to do something, at least in front of some people somewhere, you know, smaller before we do that. So that’s happening this week. That’d be nice. So the band’s called memoriam? Yeah, the band’s calm memoriam. And the album I’ve recorded with them is called to the end.

Unknown Speaker: Okay, so they’re definitely death. Death Metal. memoriam?

Unknown Speaker: That to the end. Yeah. And what they call it they call themselves old school death metal.

Ari Gold: What does that mean?

Unknown Speaker: Well, I guess I guess it means it’s rooted in kind of what, you know, must have been the sort of the beginning of that metal was in? I don’t know, maybe it means that it’s, you know, there’s not so many blastbeats or maybe it’s not meant to be, you know, to me, it sounds more like good quality thrash metal, but with a more extreme vocal approach, you know, right. Okay. So, you know, if you’re like Slayer or like, you know, you know, like the bands you mentioned, I am tried Slayer, you know, Metallica, along with Sepultura you know, create a Celtic Frost. To me, it’s kind of rooted in that it’s not in some ridiculously extreme form of it, you know, so, so maybe that what the old school is referring to. Okay, I don’t actually know because I’m not very knowledgeable on death metal. It’s a new younger for me, you know.

Unknown Speaker: So when when you’re playing death metal, I mean, are you kind of like connecting it all with the lyrics and thinking about death?

Unknown Speaker: Well, the thing is, is that the lyrics cowed and delirious. You know, the singer and lyricist is kind of very much rooted in punk. So you know, one of the things that we’ve connected with is that you know, two of his favorite but well is one of his favorite band is killing joke. Another favorite band to visit is crass. Now, you know, they’re both very politicized lyrically and I’ve played for both in well, I played for killing joke and I didn’t play for class but I played for Steve ignorant of cross through the crust set of songs, you know, on the two or so. So his lyrics you know, that they’re not kind of all Dungeons and Dragons or you know, anti religion or anything that that they’re more of like, you know, politicize punk, it’s just a phone call delivery. And the musical sale is death metal, you know, so, so it’s funny, because even I’ll do this death metal thing. It’s very, you know, it feels very familiar with what I’m used to, you know, like a singer that’s got something to say, you know?

Unknown Speaker: Yeah, so, yeah, I mean, I, I’ve, I get a little lost sometimes with the different distinctions of like, yeah, oh, dark metal, black metal, mathematical. You know,

Unknown Speaker: I’m the same. I’m the same. So whatever. Yeah,

Adam Gomez: some of that’s hard to distinguish.

Spike T. Smith: So when they when you look like, I got, you know, I start invited to, you know, to do this album form, which is what I was first asked, I was like, well, you’re just gonna have to send me it because you explain it to me, you know, I don’t know. Do you know? So I was like, right, send me some, you know, just send me a couple of tunes. And the first year and I thought, oh, okay, this kind of reminds me of, you know, what I like and sort of, you know, a thrash metal you know, that there was no singing on the at that point. It was just demos of the tunes. And as So okay, you know, the, you know, there’s a meeting point here, do you know, I, you know, it’s not like some weird extreme thing like, you know, we’re all talking about here I thought, yeah, you know, you know, I’ve loved my thrash metal from, you know, back in the early days and I still do and I thought if I mix a little bit of Dave Lombardo and Neil pitch, which is what I did, I’ve got a nice little connect.

Ari Gold: So, so we’re keeping it all in the family. So go series.

Spike T. Smith: And if you and if you hear the record and listen to it, you will hear those two drummers prominently straight away. So so it’s my interpretation of death metal, you know, but you’re right, there’s so many it’s a bit like punk isn’t it? Now, you know, you’ve got so many, you know, so different genres. It’s like, sometimes it a little bit odd to keep up with it, you know? Yeah. I

Ari Gold: mean, I have a relationship with a lot of the modern punk stuff that people call punk. Where it sounds like someone complaining about not getting allowance, go like, borrow their dad’s car or whatever. And I’m like, come on. Yeah. There has to be has to be some real aggression and fighting society. Otherwise, I call it punk. But that’s my own prejudice, I guess. But, yeah. By the way, Adam, are you there? You look frozen to me, but I don’t know if Yeah, me. Okay.

Adam Gomez: I had to jump back in in and out a couple times. But I’m here.

Ari Gold: Yeah, you’re you’re on my engineering. It’s a good freeze frame. You look good.

Ari Gold: Okay, good. Okay, well, so maybe we’ll we’ll sign off and you know, and I want to encourage and we’re going to, we’re going to keep this recording posted and we’ll give it to you guys to post but yeah, you know, please watch adventures Empower anyone who’s watching this and, you know, let’s wait with bated breath for the new last Dickies record. I don’t believe it.

Adam Gomez: I think we should probably believe that state we should, I believe. I think so. I believe it.

Spike T. Smith: I haven’t. I haven’t shown the UK SERPs gone down this road as well where they said they were on their last I believe so. I believe you album

Adam Gomez: I think I suggested to Leonard that we we named this we should name this last record death taxes and the Dickey’s. And, I mean I don’t know if he’ll I don’t think he’ll bite but I mean that’s kind of how I see it and I even though it seems like it’s the last record I don’t know. I mean I’m sure we’ll keep touring as far as the record I can’t believe it I’m just glad I’m on it

Ari Gold: yeah

Ari Gold: good way thing it is so well so nice to meet you guys in person I look forward to having a drink or a hello in the future we will send you this you guys to repost as for Antonia he’s, you know, from TSL TS O L to a wall so we’ll change him wall

Adam Gomez: Yeah, that works.

Ari Gold: That’s the new name for the band. But yeah, so if he wants to do this again sometimes it’s easy enough we can we can do another another chat and then stitch them together so I’m sure he’s really nice. Guys. Keep keep rocking. And you know, see you out there in the land of drums, punk metal, and Chinese. And AirDrop, AirDrop all you have remember to add drum. Air drumming is where it all starts. I know this. Yeah, man talk to started. Before they before they started as air drummers before

Adam Gomez: us even were real drummers. And when we’re not drumming, guess what we’re doing? We’re air drum and man. Yeah.

Ari Gold: All right, well, form of expression.

Ari Gold: Yeah, it is. And if you’ve got a spare change, anyone send it to musicares.org. It’s a really great organization, or just by the movie a bunch of times on Vimeo, which why that’s right. Okay. All right. Well.

Ari Gold: Nice to meet you guys.

This interview originally appeared on Hotsticks.fm.

See more about Adam Gomez & Spike T. Smith on the official site for Adventures of Power, the world’s greatest (and only) Air Drum Movie!

Enjoyed this session? Explore more from the Interviews Archive.

Dan Whitesides and I talked about growing up playing drums too loud, the unexpected magic of Utah’s music scene, and how close he was to walking away from it all before joining The Used. It’s a reminder that most careers aren’t built by chasing “the big thing,” but by showing up, playing honestly, and staying open long enough for the right door to crack open.

What I appreciate most about Dan is how grounded he remains — balancing life on tour with family, fatherhood, and the simple joy of playing. This conversation lives comfortably in those in-between spaces: memory, music, fatigue, and gratitude.”

Too Loud to Ignore: Learning Drums in Utah Basements

The conversation opens with Dan Whitesides reflecting on his earliest years as a drummer—playing too loud in Utah basements, dealing with constant noise complaints, and burning out his ears long before anyone thought about protection. Ari and Dan trace the beginnings of a musical life shaped by persistence, proximity, and scenes that thrived in unlikely places.

Utah’s Underground Scene and Almost Walking Away

Whitesides walks through the rise and fall of local music communities in Ogden and Salt Lake City, unpacking how those scenes quietly produced serious talent. He speaks candidly about nearing the end of his rope at age 28—working day jobs, laying bricks, and seriously considering whether music could ever be more than survival. The conversation highlights how proximity, friendship, and timing—not ambition alone—ultimately reshaped his path.

Finding The Right Band, Not Chasing the Big One

Rather than chasing an established gig, Whitesides explains how casual jam sessions and touring friendships led organically to joining The Used. From near-missed opportunities to chance performances that changed everything, the story reveals how careers often hinge on moments that feel insignificant at the time. Ari and Dan also touch on touring life, collaboration, and how sustained creative work can exist alongside family, fatherhood, and balance.

Watch video version here:

RAW TRANSCRIPT (Pardon the old-school glitches):

Ari Gold: anything down there? I’m like, yeah, there’s a drum set is like that. So and then that just kicked it off.

Ari Gold: And did you have neighbors who were willing to accept the sound coming from? From the basement?

Dan Whitesides: Yeah, no, not really. Like, it’s funny, because in my dad’s basement, it was really dark and like it was underground, so I’m sure they could hear it. But my mom’s basement was very wide open and we the cops are always coming over and like when we talk to our neighbors, he’s like, Dude, you got guys two miles away calling us about your band like oh, sorry, you know, but always getting the cops called on us.

Ari Gold: Were you wearing earplugs? No way. Yeah. Yeah, I blew my ears in high school playing drums too. Yet so buyers are bad. Really bad. Yeah, it’s too bad. But yeah, live and learn too late, I guess. Yeah. But so were you in we growing up outside Salt Lake Are you in Orem or where were you?

Dan Whitesides: I was in well, I’ve it was all over. It was mainly like Davis County and Weaver County, which is like Layton, Utah and Ogden Valley, Utah. Okay. And so yeah, my dad still lives in the same house and Layton that I that I grew up in. So yeah, always just outside and then as I when I got older, I moved to Ogden and it was really cool music scene in Ogden. Tell it really, until we moved to Salt Lake. And then that scene in Salt Lake just kicked off though.

Ari Gold: And did that mean the Oregon scene kind of died or?

Dan Whitesides: Yeah, everybody moved.

Ari Gold: She better watch your tongue but no, yeah. For real. It did die out. Yeah.

Dan Whitesides: But I mean, like I said, it’s not like music scene would just be like, from what I remember. It blew up.

Ari Gold: Right right. You Yeah, I was surprised when I went to shoot adventures to power, the airdrome movie, we shot in Utah. And I, you know, it was filling in for New Mexico because the there was a copper mining town that I wanted to shoot in, in New Mexico. And then they found out we were going to be doing stuff about the unions and the air drummers that are in a union and craziness and like, and so we got shut down there. So then we moved up to Utah. And I was surprised, you know, in our prep weeks and hanging out there, how much of a cool scene there was in around Salt Lake, what is that? We shot in 2007. And then we finished it in Oh, eight in New York, because I I shot it like for short films in different locations. Because I didn’t have a to do like it all as one big movie. But it allowed me to really kind of get the texture replays. So we would go and shoot it like a short film. So I had Michael McKean and Jane Lynch, and some of the other big actors up in, in Salt Lake and then up in a town called help her, you know, help her? Yeah, yeah. So that the the main town was shot in to help her. And then a lot of the interiors was the bars scene and stuff like that, but we shot in Salt Lake. And then there was a whole section that takes place in Mexico that we shot. Remember that in the town, but it was about 45 minutes do west of Salt Lake City. So we got a lot out of Utah, and the crew was all from Utah, and the vibe was very, Utah in a in a beautiful way. Like, I mean, it’s such a specific flavor. You know, people have a kind of like, willingness to be really weird in Utah, but that if you’ve never been there, you wouldn’t think that you’d think it’s kind of straight laced, and boring, or that might be the reputation outside. But actually, something about that it opens in the air or the water, but like, people are pretty wacky,

Dan Whitesides: probably because of how Moerman is and can be, it’s like when you break out of that you kind of Yeah, you can go. You know, that’s, I think that’s why the music scene was so cool there for so long. I don’t know if it is anymore. But I mean, like the time when you when you guys were there, like that was like probably the peak of it all. You know what I mean? Like, there were just so many different types of bands and great players, you know, I moved back not long ago and only lived there for about a year. But there was nothing going on. But it was kind of like right when things were starting to open back up.

Ari Gold: Yeah. So when you were before you joined the used, like, were you kind of chasing a big gig like that, wanting to get into like a band that was already established.

Dan Whitesides: Um, I mean, I wanted to be in a band that made money playing music, you know what I mean? Everybody, you always, we would always say, I just want to make enough money to survive. But later on, you realize that like, that means forever. So that’s kind of, you know what I mean? So some of the bands that I was in, I believed in and they, you know, we all did, but it wasn’t to be so I wasn’t really searching out to be in the US or in a in a band. It was already going. I was actually about to be done trying so hard. You know, I mean, like, I was like, I was 28 years old. I’m like, I’m, I need to like get my shit together. And you No,

Ari Gold: go back to Brick Lane.

Dan Whitesides: Yeah, you know, exactly. So yeah, I wasn’t at that point. I was about John.

Ari Gold: And then what I mean, it did what happened, you got a phone call that they wanted someone to jam with to like work cracks, or

Dan Whitesides: I was I became really good friends with Quinn, who was who at the time was a guitar player. And we would just start jamming has that word, we would just play he’d come down to my rehearsal spot, and we’d play. And we play with just a bunch of people. Sometimes Jeff would come down, we would just play. We never really wrote a song, we would just kind of just play, you know, just let it go. And he was a huge fan of the band that I was in at the time called the new transit direction. And the US took us out on probably two three different to three week tours. So we just became friends. And then when he decided that he wanted a new drummer. I was first on the list. So yeah, good gig. That’s kind of a funny story, how he even saw my band play because there was this place I think it was called up rock in Salt Lake City was like a hip hop shop upstairs and then downstairs. They did shows. And it was a dungeon man it was it was just, but whatever. We’re just doing some shows. I was sick, sicker than I’ve ever been. And I tried to get the band that was supposed to play I was trying to play with Oh, this one man and I know we’re not going on before you guys are going on last. Oh my god, man fine. So we ended up playing in Quinton got to the show Wally and only saw us and just loved our band. So it was kind of a blessing in disguise.

Ari Gold: So what’s and where’s where are those guys? Now from that point,

Dan Whitesides: um, they’re around. I don’t know if any of them are playing much I know they play but not in bands. I do talk to our guitar player, Josh quite a bit. He and I wrote some stuff over the pandemic. But like, like I said, when I moved, I was living in Pasadena for like, eight years, we moved to Utah bought a house. And then my wife got a job after she graduated college and MLA. So we sold our house and move back. So I didn’t really get a chance to see anybody because it was the pandemic, you know, so stand aside. And, but as far as I know, that, yeah, they’re all still kind of playing, but not really like out, you know, right. Right. Yeah. They all of them work@overstock.com.

Ari Gold: Oh, right. Because that’s based out there. Yeah,

Dan Whitesides: I worked there for a minute too.

Ari Gold: Well, so that could have been you.

Dan Whitesides: Yeah. It could have been there. But they manage it now. And you know, they’ve moved up in the company and stuff. I quit working for my dad for like, I don’t know, maybe a month. And I remember, I was working at the call center at overstock. And I remember just sitting there thinking this is the most boring thing I’ve ever done falling asleep on the phone talking to people

Ari Gold: like God. And so what you were you were laying bricks for your dad before that? Yeah. I mean, I want to say maybe there was something, you know, like the physical labor. You know, a drummer is a different kind of musician, because the drummer has to be in shape. So maybe it was training it right.

Dan Whitesides: Maybe so I was built like a brick shooter.

Ari Gold: So how long are you gonna be on tour on this? On this one?

Dan Whitesides: Let’s see this tour. We have a week left. So on this tour, we’ve been out for almost a month. We had we were out a month with rise against we’re home for a month. Now we’re out with a data remember for a month and we’re one week left? And we have shows in Lubbock tonight. And then oh, Lord, I think Arizona somewhere, somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. And then Irvine and then the when we were young festivals.

Ari Gold: Okay, that’s cool. Are you meeting up at all with my chemical romance?

Dan Whitesides: No, no plans to meet up with him. I, we I think Bert reached out but Gerard has a different number. Like we were talking about maybe doing under pressure or something. But I mentioned it to him. But it’s kind of one of those things where a they plan on at 1045 at night like I want to. I was back at the bus stop ready to go to bed. But yeah, we ran into a bunch of other people. We ran into Tucker from Thursday.

Ari Gold: Night. I talked to Tucker a few weeks ago. Yeah.

Dan Whitesides: So we ran into a bunch of Anthony Green from Circa Survive. Every class people popped in to saw like all American reject guys. Chris karamba. From dashboard. And yeah, but as far as collaborations go with Avery that there’s no plans really

Ari Gold: what inspired the under pressure recording? Was that something you jammed on on tour, and then it just happened? You decide that

Dan Whitesides: for me, but it was it was one of those things that they were like, do the used Burke kind of helped my hand, you know, up when he when they were first starting to like take taking them out on tour everywhere all over Europe all over the US, you know what I mean? And that they just blew up, you know, he helped him get signed to the label. You know what I mean? Right? Okay. They’re a&r guys. So when they under pressure was just kind of like everybody loves queen and David Bowie from both from both bands. So it was just kind of

Ari Gold: Yeah, yeah, that’s fun. Yeah. Well, so what are you looking forward to most in the next week of playing? And what do you look forward to about not being on tour?

Dan Whitesides: Well, I get to go home and be with my family, which is I’m excited about that. They came out to the last one, we were young, they’re gonna come on to this one. And I got a 10 month old and an 11 year old. So my wife, my wife and my daughter, the 11 year old went off and watched bands and I took the baby happily, and went back to the bus and just hung out with him. Let him crawl all over the place. Right. Nice. And then I’m excited to go play when we were young in Ghana. It’s it’s fun. It’s kind of it’s really it’s chill for us as huge as it is. I had my daughter come up and play. If you look on my Instagram, she came up and played the snare drum on pretty handsome awkward 1000 people it’s cool. It’s amazing. Yeah. So yeah, I’m excited to do that and that’s we have

Ari Gold: great that you’re able to integrate the integrate your family into your life. That’s that’s not a lot of musicians, you actually figure out Do that.

Dan Whitesides: It’s hard. Like, look, for example, after Irvine, I’m going to leave that night and just drive straight to Vegas just so I can bring my family. Just because our bus is so full and I don’t think it’d be good. It’s not a good atmosphere for the baby and things like that. But you got to do what you got to do to make it work otherwise. It’s funny my my daughter’s soccer coaches, like Is everything okay? We haven’t seen fair in a while. I’m like, I’m so sorry. I just, I bring my family I want to Cam and she came to San Diego with me. It was just it was just her and I we just drove down. I live in Studio City. So it’s only an hour and a half drive or whatever. Or whatever.

Ari Gold: We said, I’m in Venice, when I’m here, although I’m off to Spain in an hour. But we should a have a whiskey or a coffee or a serve. Absolutely. I’m all about it. For sure. Yeah. Whiskey and coffee. Why not? The light The light drugs for those of us who want to live

Dan Whitesides: that’s what that’s about. All I do is drink you know that. Water and beer.

Ari Gold: Yeah, yeah, that works for me, too. Yeah. So I, I am off to Spain. So I’m gonna sign off. We, we will cut this together and figure out how to deal with that Instagram, we may need to have you download or save the Instagram if you didn’t already. And if it’s gone, then then we’ll survive. I apologize for the technical

Dan Whitesides: words. And it’s probably half my fault.

Ari Gold: We have like this thing where we do multiple channels at once since last year, because we got lazy and now I remember why we got lazy because it’s it’s a pain in the ass. But it’s cool because some people are on different you know, some people on YouTube, some people are on Facebook, I don’t use Facebook at all, but there are people who use it so so hello. But I really appreciate you taking the time to talk about music. And I think it’s clearly from seeing the comments a lot of people who are inspired by by you and inspired by the you know, the the kind of emotional release that your band provides. And certainly with like the new tracks you’re talking about, like it’s a noble thing to give people an outlet. And that’s, that’s why that’s why we make art. So thank you.

Dan Whitesides: Absolutely. Thank you, man, I appreciate that. And you got my number. So if you ever want to hang out, hit me up.

Ari Gold: Yeah, I’ll be back after Thanksgiving. So let’s

Dan Whitesides: say you’re going on vacation, you got a house there too, or both? No

Matt Greiner: are going I’m going to a film festival in Spain. And then I’m going to Germany to record the voiceover for a Netflix show where I’m like doing the voice from the 1940s for like on the news. It’s like World War Two and I’m doing the guy who’s like the Germans are invading France, you know, like, you know, whatever.

Dan Whitesides: You know, I looked up why everybody talks like that back then once and it was the microphones they were that’s just what they would pick them when

Ari Gold: they were yelling but also there was you know, it’s a completely manufactured accent. People didn’t talk to that and daily life. So the American actors were taught to do a semi English accent to make them sound more elegant. And that’s why it’s called a mid atlantic accent because it’s neither American nor British accent. And it’s totally put on it’s fake. Yeah, but the highness of it all to everybody. Oh, the yelling Yeah, the yelling. Yeah, we’re talking about this. Well, that’s cool, man. So anyway, I’ll doing that in Germany. And then I’ll then I’m going home for Thanksgiving. And we’ll be back here.

Dan Whitesides: So. All right, we’ll have a safe trip.

Ari Gold: Thank you. Really nice to meet you and, and catch YOU on the flipside.

Dan Whitesides: All right. See ya. All right.

This interview originally appeared on Hotsticks.fm.

See more about Dan Whitesides on the official site for Adventures of Power, the world’s greatest (and only) Air Drum Movie!

Enjoyed this session? Explore more from the Interviews Archive.

As I move toward finishing Brother Verses Brother, this session lingers with me. Two artists, locked into the same pulse, reminding us that rhythm isn’t just sound, it’s survival.”

The Air-Drum Dream and the Arena Reality

The conversation kicks off with Shaun Foist (Breaking Benjamin) explaining how his journey began not on a kit, but with “air drumming” along to his favorite records. He explores the mental shift required to go from a fan in a small town to occupying one of the most coveted drum thrones in modern rock. Alongside Harley DeWinter (The 5th), they discuss the high-stakes pressure of performing for tens of thousands and the technical precision needed to maintain the “Breaking Benjamin” sound.

Mentorship, The 5th, and the Heavy Groove

Harley DeWinter—Shaun’s protégé and the driving force behind The 5th—discusses the technical hurdles of stepping into the professional spotlight under the guidance of a veteran. The duo breaks down the mechanics of their mentor-student relationship, proving that the “chemical reaction” between two drummers can elevate the performance of an entire rhythm section. They explore the nuances of the heavy groove and how to stay locked in when the stage volume reaches a fever pitch.

Passing the Torch and the Future of the Kit

Beyond the technical talk, the group explores the raw hope of the next generation. They brainstorm the future of drum technology and the importance of passing on the discipline of the craft to younger players. It’s a masterclass in how Shaun Foist and Harley DeWinter use their shared passion for the kit to maintain their identity and artistic stamina, ensuring the heartbeat of rock remains louder than ever.

Watch video version here:

RAW TRANSCRIPT (Pardon the old-school glitches):

Ari Gold: Greetings ladies and gentlemen, my name is Ari Gold. I am the Guinness world record holder for yard drumming and the air drum movie versus the power which Neil Pierce’s in and I am pleased privileged, honored, tickled and psyched that two amazing drummers who are geniuses in their own right but also did this incredible tribute to Neil Pierre on with me this week. Shawn foist of Breaking Benjamin and and life and racecar driving and Harley DeWinter of the monta and siren and undivided and a plus dropouts and bring it off.

Harley DeWinter: Wow.

Ari Gold: So great to have you guys here. I think we have Shawn stuck in stuck in Cincinnati or in Cincinnati stuck sounds like you don’t want to be there. But you’re gonna grow up.

Shaun Foist: Weather’s terrible. So we’re here. We’re gonna make the best of it. I got my wine. We’re gonna do it. So, yes, go ahead and just say thanks for having us.

Ari Gold: Yeah, it’s it’s an honor and really wonderful to have you guys here. So, yeah, we’ve been talking to a lot of drummers. In the past, we’ve just gotten a little bit drunk and talk about what we talked about. But I do have some questions. I’d love to ask you guys about drumming. Perhaps we could start with the fascinating story of how Shawn you got into wrench into Breaking Benjamin. What how did that all come about?

Shaun Foist: That’s a weird one. I get asked that one a lot. It’s gonna take a couple of minutes. But I think the whole thing. Yeah, just everybody’s like, right now. It’s like intermission where you leave the concert during the drum solo and you go get your fear. That’s this. But no, I started at a really early age of drumming. And by 10 You know, I was pretty excelled and doing my thing. And my dad found out that I was doing a spurt we had a school talent show coming up. And, you know, I obviously avoided it. I didn’t even think about doing anything like that. And he’s like, No, you need to do this whole thing. I’m like, Okay. And so, you know, long story short, he talked me into performing an Allman Brothers song with us. And it was called in memory of Elizabeth three. And I was like, Okay, that’s a really long song. And you know, so we put together this drum part. I had my little audition tape and went to school with the teacher was like, It’s awfully long. But is that really, you know, because back then that was just audio tape. You know, like, it wasn’t anything like you can take your iPhone and give it to me. And they couldn’t believe it was even me. So needless to say, I did the performance got a standing ovation. Like that’s exactly what I want to do as a career. And then fast forward. My first major gig was Greg Goldman’s daughter, Brooklyn omen for man called Pictionary broken. Well, in the midst of all that, I was also found Breaking Benjamin, and in and out of Turin. I went to some Breaking Benjamin shows. I knew the previous drummer really well. And I met Ben on the tour bus in 2009. He said, Hey, so what do you do? And I so I play drums. And he goes, cool. That was it. That was the end of it. We go watch the show and I had my best friend with me. And he looks at me and we’re in the crowd. He goes you’re gonna be in this band one day and I’m looking at him I see your truck Shut up. You know it was one of those kind of moments he goes now man like you’re gonna be in this van. I’m telling it like whatever man so yeah, went on to do the picture of the broken thing which picture me broken was produced by David tetanus who also did Breaking Benjamin. So to start see where This is going. So I did record a picture of me broken and we’re touring. We got offered the tour that was Cooper. And we’re a week from going out on that tour and I’m walking down the sidewalk in LA to get a coffee. I get a phone call and it’s from the engineer at the studio that Pictionary Birkins. Records. This What are you doing? So yeah, I’m just getting a coffee. What’s up? He goes, Well, I got this bam, that’s really interested in having you try out. I’m like, Oh, now you know, I’m doing this. I got this big tour. He goes now like, trust me, it’s a band that you may or may not have heard of. It’s called Breaking Benjamin. Like, whatever. Shut up like you’re messing with me. Because can I give Ben your number? Okay, sure. Then calls. And I’m like, I didn’t get the coffee. By the way. I’d never made it there. I was running up and down the sidewalk in excitement. I never even got the coffee. And I mean, I remember like just walking aimlessly around LA not even knowing where I’m walking and talking to this guy. And he was like, I saw you on YouTube. Why didn’t you tell me back then that you were great. I’m like, you had a great drummer, there was no point like, and he was like, I want you in my bands. Please send me some videos that you play in my stuff. So I contacted my manager at the time Lonnie reader. And it had to be secret because I couldn’t talk about it. And I rented out this lock out and recorded myself playing these songs. And you know, I’m a week going into a tour. I did it, send it to them left for tour didn’t hear anything. I’m like, Well, I blew it. Because he told me to take my time. I sent it the same day. And he calls me he’s like, Yeah, so just want to kind of go over, you know, your auditions. And I’m like, I blew it. Yeah, you nailed it. And I was like, Oh my God, and I’m like, I’m in the middle of this tour, like awkward, you know, whatever you want to do. And he goes now, get the arena experience because you’re gonna need it. So I finished a three month run with Alice Cooper. And the last show, I quit the band rented a U haul truck, pickup truck, put my drums in the back of it and drove from Miami, Florida, to Ohio saw my mom for a couple of days because my dad had just died in the midst of all this tour. So I had to see my mom, and then drove from there to Pennsylvania. Ben and I play diary of James together and he just says you want to gig. I’m just like, wow. So now you can see what the story is so crazy. You know, I call my brother’s Brooklyn

Ari Gold: friend who knew that you were going to get the gig before the gig was even available.

Shaun Foist: Okay, it gets even crazier. So I had worked at a place called Guitar Center. Everybody knows Guitar Center. And he was the store manager in Cincinnati, Ohio. And I hit it off with this dude, immediately. And we became just such great friends. And he Yeah, he just said you’re gonna be in this band one day. So I remember when I got the job. And we didn’t have a band. Like there was no bass boy bass players, no lead guitar player or anything. And he’s like, you know, you can have any drum tech you want Sean it’s all yours. I called that guy. Because I hate by the way up. I need a drum tech. I think it’s I can’t do it for nothing. I know. Picture me broken leg pan. It’s Breaking Benjamin. Degas are freaking out. Yeah. So he had the crystal ball. He knew. And it was like it was crazy. Like the story like people unbelievable. So that really happened.

Ari Gold: Meeting. Okay, exactly. Good story. I mean, I would like to I would like to pivot right to Carly talking about when the psychic plant his future. But you probably don’t have this like story. You do? I quit. That’s what I mean. Let’s Can we can we say Ricky raka from poisoned as a psychic. And he somehow like did some like witchery over your sleeping body at one point and to make you a drummer early.

Harley DeWinter: He may have you know, for a long time. I mean, he’s my dad’s best friend for gosh, 30 years they met at sunset tattoo. I think it was and they just were, you know, bonding over motorcycles. So long time my dad and Ricky were best pals and I was going to poison concert since I was like three. And so I was always kind of air drumming and tapping on my chest and stuff but narrow drumming. You were in there, right? Yeah. And tapping on my chest and stuff. But I was never, you know, never had considered a drumset and then I think when I was nine, I got one. Ricky’s company. Originally it was the chop shop drums. I remember I had that. He they built me a kit and what did I do? I never touched it. Just it wasn’t for me at the time. But I started joined concert band. And when I was like 10. And then when I got to middle school, I joined jazz band. I wanted to do that because I could play drumset I didn’t, I didn’t like concert snare drum. I liked reading and learning how to do that. But I did not like just sitting at one drum, and playing that only I liked drum set. So I would wake up at 6am, I’d go to jazz band, I had auditioned and I got in at a great teacher, Joe Shaw. And then I had another great teacher, still, my teacher, his name’s Evan stone, not the porn star.

Ari Gold: I didn’t know that a porn star. So know the porn stars.

Harley DeWinter: You know, I only know that because I would look up my teacher on you know, Google, he played for like Ali and AJ. And then but I would just find the porn star. And I’m just like, that’s not my teacher. But anyways, so that’s what got me into drumming, I guess at the age of 12. And I started my own band did that for a while. And then I kind of was just in and out of bands a lot like just doing this doing that having my hands and a lot of pots so that I could figure out a what style I like playing who I like working with what type of people I like working with. So eventually that, you know, I was working with another band called siren. And then that led to, well, it didn’t really lead to but I was working with them for a long time they got my experience up, I flew to Rocklahoma, I played my first Rocklahoma Festival at 15 or 16 years old and 2014. And then 2015, I graduated high school at OSHA, which was an arts school here in Santa Ana. And then I went on Warped Tour A week later with a plus dropout. So we talked about and and that was that was my first touring experience. And that was grueling. Can we hear a little bit about more tour. Warped Tour is nuts. Traveling Circus is the only way you can really describe it. I mean, props to Kevin Lyman and that entire clan for creating something so magical. And I really wish that we still were blessed with that, you know, people are still blessed with that kind of tour. Because, you know, there’s very few of those kinds of tours that where there’s it’s a it’s a festival, it’s 40 band festival, or you know even more than that, I think but traveling circus is the only way I can describe it. It’s eight stages, something like that a day, I only did three weeks with the you know, the band only had three weeks, but we had or the Ernie Ball stage every day our time shifted. So sometimes we played noon, sometimes I play 6pm anywhere in between. And, you know, that’s where I kind of like cut my teeth, I really got started. I liked the grind. I liked waking up early and unloading gear and you know, stuff in and just paying my dues is what I always thought of it. As you know, I’ve always tried to make sure that I never let anything get to my head. So I did that I was doing like 40,000 steps a day like walking 10 or 15 miles a day just on that tour, loading gear and playing drums and doing all that 100 degree heat and every day. And it was the best experience of my life. So that’s when I knew it was like that’s what I want to do for the rest of my life as you know, as long as I physically am able to and then move on to you know, whatever studio mixing anything like that still maintaining the music career, but doing something that you know, involves a desk a little bit more, but I still love touring. So that part did for me. Before that, what’s

Ari Gold: your favorite place to play? Like, what’s your favorite venue?

Harley DeWinter: Oh, my gosh, um, you know, we played a lot of great amphitheaters on the tour together. Sean and I did. What was it hard for or No, Guilford New Hampshire?

Ari Gold: That’s, that’s your favorite. That’s what about Guilford? Yeah,

Harley DeWinter: it’s a fantastic venue. And then they have like tricycles and bikes and all sorts of fun stuff and they have like a mini golf course and like a pool backstage. It’s just a fun, like hanging after the show, you know? So that’s the stuff that’s memorable for me because I you know, I wake up even with like Giamatti I on tour wake up relatively early to what touring is not as early as the crew guys, but wake up, unload the trailer, set up all the gear with my production manager and play a show at like five o’clock in the afternoon and then be done by seven with loading a trailer back up and then it’s kind of like the rest of the night I have off but those first seven hours of my day when it was when I woke up at noon and loaded in you know, it was just kind of

Ari Gold: what are your rituals? Do you have any pre show rituals that you do?

Harley DeWinter: pre show rituals with de Montaigne? No more because I think just it caught up to us, but um, tequila shots before the show Patro and silver, that’s death. That is the worst thing to do and reheat on a summer.

Ari Gold: I mean, well, if you’re not mixing it, I actually find tequilas totally fine. It’s just if you then have some juice or you then have a beer, but if you’re just drinking tequila you’re fine.

Harley DeWinter: Tequila on its own as as shots is fine. So like to have those just you know, it’s not it’s not my first choice. I’m a bourbon guy. So it’s like for me I prefer that kind of burn and smoothness from Bourbon versus like tequila to me as soon as you get your nose right to the glass, it’s like an assaulting kind of smell. So but you know, it was fun. It was fun to do that i had a couple of nights where Yeah, mixing, like wine, you know, hanging out. And then during the pre show tequila shot, and I looked back at my drop Tech, I remember one night in April. And I was like, I can’t make it. Play like one of my favorite shows ever. I have video of it. And I had audio of it. I mixed it and, and playing wise, it was fantastic. But I was like, at the time, I was like, I’m not going to make it through this show. Because I’m just dead. Like,

Shaun Foist: that’s all equal spinning. Yeah, exactly.

Harley DeWinter: Also equals awesome drum drills.

Shaun Foist: At the time, they see what’s at the time. They seem awesome. They’re not such great ideas. But no, like, you know, I toured, I did the a plus dropouts walkthrough thing. I got a bunch of I’ve just worked. I live in Orange County, but I was always driving up to LA and trying to just network and meet people. I had an audition with John five, like end of 2016. And he was great. Yeah, that came out that came about from a guy named Barry squire. You know, he’s kind of like the, you know, Guide to know for connecting auditions at least, you know, a lot of the cats in the 90s got that that way. I think Taylor Hawkins got Abra Levine or not ever not ever loving Jesus. A lot more sir. Yeah, that was that was two different arrows right there. I just missed that

Shaun Foist: was a big difference.

Ari Gold: It’s all ancient history now. That’s fine. So I want to refer to ever Levine as dad rock.

Shaun Foist: Why? Because she married the guy from Nickelback, or,

Ari Gold: well, maybe but I mean, yeah, that’s an issue, but

Harley DeWinter: like, you know, me listen to Nickelback all the time.

Shaun Foist: Yeah. I love Nickelback.

Harley DeWinter: I love Nickelback. But no, I know that Taylor got the Atlantis gig through like very sparse. So just he, you know, recommends a lot of people. So he recommended me for that. John like me, but it didn’t work out at the time, I was still pretty green to touring. So I got recommended for another gig with a band called The high Fox. I played with them for a year and a half, we did a lot of touring together. And then I got the call for DeMonte. And we, you know, grown up on the same circuit. We played all the same pizza bars and all that junk for years. And I always said, I want to play drums for her. I think she’s really cool.

Ari Gold: I know we mentioned this before, but Taylor Carroll her. Her man was on our show lit. He’s so are you are you friends with him? Or is this? Yeah, no, he’s he’s a good buddy. You know, it’s funny because I think they’ve been together for nearly a year now. And we didn’t meet until July of last year, da Matta had a live stream. And so Taylor was a guest and he played a couple he played drums on a couple of songs even play guitar and one song. So that was my first time meeting him and handing him the you know, the keys to my car basically with the with the drum set. But great guy Great.

Ari Gold: What what drums Do you play? What’s your kid right now,

Harley DeWinter: I play DW drums. So I have several kits right now I actually have one we’re in my studio right now. So I have a Purple Heart kit set up this couch and we can’t really see what’s going on. But with the module,

Ari Gold: as an air drummer, I should point out the DW is an official air drums of power. It that’s that’s what you have in your head when you’re playing.

Ari Gold: Well, it there’s a scene in the movie where he were he’s where my character is forced to sit on a stool. And it’s DW stool, and zooms, and you can see it and then actually don Lombardi who runs DW as well as drum channel. He was a big supporter of the movie. And he he shot these videos with me and Neal peered after we did the movie. And we did all that at at a DW or the drum channel studio. So yeah, fantastic, soft spot in my heart and Don Lombardi and DW.

Harley DeWinter: He’s a fantastic man, him and John and then you know, the entire Lombardi family now is involved in a company and they’re just fantastic. And yeah, you know, I just they always push the limits of like, what I think can be done for, you know, price wise, customization wise, anything like that, they always push the limit. And that’s what I really love about them is that that’s a company that feels like they’re not in it to I mean, you know, any good businesses and it to be profitable, but that isn’t part of it. They love it. That loves what they do. And they innovate for the sake of innovation. It’s like Apple for drums. I mean, they’re just, that’s the company. Yeah,

Ari Gold: Harley. What do you play?

Harley DeWinter: Me or show me?

Ari Gold: Oh, sorry. I got confused for a second look. A little windows. already. You need one. More glass of wine.

Shaun Foist: That’s exactly right. No, I actually I actually just switched to DW last month. I was wasn’t told previously for about four and a half years. And we were doing the Neil Pierre tribute. And I was playing Harley’s kit. So I was like, you know, like, I used to be a DW guy early on my first real drum set that my mom bought me was a DW kit. And it was it was something almost like you know, you get back on you play and it was just like, this is where I need to be. And I made the switch where the new kits being built right now can’t wait to get it. So it’s massive we went you know, all the way from an eight inch Tom’s is the 23 inch gallon drum we did the whole collection exotic wood

Ari Gold: have you I have played Terry bozos insane kit. Oh, view? Like, where do you start? 350 that’s got like, the all of the notes of the scale as different, like bass drums. It’s crazy. C C sharp, D D sharp. E. I mean, the whole thing, like in a circle.

Shaun Foist: You have to be like Beethoven to play that kit. It’s insane.

Ari Gold: I’m not Beethoven. I just made a lot of noise. I did a little video with Gary where like, my character busts into the shop and plays his drums and he yells at me.

Shaun Foist: That’s really cool. Well, that kid’s got like 100 different pedals to they like fan out.

Harley DeWinter: It’s madness. Totally.

Shaun Foist: Fine. I have seen it. I wouldn’t know where to start the plant.

Ari Gold: Yeah, I didn’t either. I just I because I was in character. I had the excuse to display really badly. If I if I sat down with a kit as myself, I would be too embarrassed in touch.

Shaun Foist: I think I would too. I wouldn’t even know where to start. Yeah. So.

Ari Gold: So what are the what’s the what’s the link up between racecar driving and? And? Yeah, job. My dad was heavy in the cars. You know, there was always a hot rod on the driveway growing up. He had a 69 z 28 dz that he had since 1988. And I was there so basically, it’s a 69 Camaro with a special as a special edition 69 Camaro I had a 302 versus like you had some that had 396 or 420 sevens, yada, yada yada. It was a rare option with front disc brakes. But he had that for years and another Camaro and we had Corvette, which he ended up turning me loose with in high school, which that didn’t last very long. I think I had the car two weeks before he like, held his hand out for the keys. Get caught trying to drive six girls home from school when it’s a two seater. So that was cool. But I so yeah, I just got heavy into cars. And then when I was old enough to start working, I bought my own Mustang and it’s always been Mustangs, which really made my dad mad because he was a Chevy guy. But I converted him. And currently now I have a 1400 horsepower motors converted him like he’s switched over to Mustangs. What he started driving, he started driving mindless things and falling in love with them. Even though he was a Chevy guy, like first one I bought and I pulled it in the driveway, he’s he’s get that out of my driveway. Don’t even Park it here. Take it somewhere else. Like that’s how diehard, he was about Chevy. So but yeah, so currently I have a 1400 horsepower Mustang. That’s a drag car. And it’s I haven’t even raced it. It’s still on the shop being built. So hopefully we’ll get it out at some point here.

Ari Gold: What city is that in? Cincinnati? That’s all so your base there. You were just going to go to Texas to visit Harley.

Shaun Foist: Yeah. Awesome. All my connecting flight to Texas. I was going to Orange County, but I can’t get there.

Ari Gold: Early. You’re still in OC. Yeah. Okay. When you say you’re in Thai, or you are in Texas now.

Shaun Foist: No, that’s just for the connection. Okay, would you say yeah, so.

Ari Gold: So, I would love to hear or you guys share a little bit about how you ended up? Well, how Neil Pierre inspired you and how you ended up doing this incredible medley

Shaun Foist: you know, it goes back to even as my dad was a drummer and you had bands with me growing up. And I’ll never forget. He had band practice one day. And he was playing when he got up to use the restroom or, you know, go smoke a cigarette or something. I just jumped on the drums and his bass player was standing there. And I remember I just started playing these crazy bills, you know, it’s when dad wasn’t that style drummer. And at this point, I hadn’t even heard of rush at all. I was more into like, Led Zeppelin and the who and stuff like that.

Ari Gold: These are respectable drummers.

Shaun Foist: Yeah. And this guy looks at me and he was like, Hey, man, like, you’re good. Like, don’t tell your dad, but you’re good. And he asked one day, he’s like, Hey, do you care if I come over jam with a kid? And you know, when we’re not having band practice? My dad’s like, absolutely. And I’ll never forget, he came over one day, and this is back when he burnt CDs. I mentioned I’m old. So this takes me way back. And he come over to had the CD and the cover the CD, which he had rip on hand wrote on the thing, so awesome drummers. Awesome. What the hell’s this? So I put it in my little, portable CD player, headphones. And I heard, I think, what rush song Jacob’s Ladder effect he had on there. But it was a series of great drummers, but it’s Jacob’s Ladder. And so below, this is cool, and begged my mom to take me to the local Best Buy. And I bought my first record, which I have here is exit stage left. This was not this isn’t the one I bought. But it looks like it’s signed by someone. It’s signed by the whole band. My singer bought this for me for Christmas, three years ago. That was the first CD I bought. And it has the very lengthy drum solo coming out of YYC, that you’re probably familiar with. And I was like, Oh, my God, like, this is life changing. So the next thing you know, I’m down in the basement, I’m playing along next stage left. And that’s when my dad was like you, you’re doing things over and beyond what I could ever do. So I surpassed my dad by, you know, 1011 12 years old, and my dad had been playing for years. And it just started escalating from there. And then, you know, I got into like, school band like jazz man. And I was always the guy that was in jazz band playing the drum kit and playing the rush from about he’s, you know, it just went to that. You know, it was always an inspiration, like, it was always something musically, that evolved in my plane that Neil came up, you know, like, a, something always happened. And then, you know, when he passed away, I said, you know, it’d be really cool to do a tribute to Neil, but at the time, like, I was on tour, and it just didn’t work out, I didn’t really have a lot of time, I was gonna do a, a rotor drum solo, that I was just going to perform in our set was cut short, so we weren’t the headliner. So I wasn’t able to perform it, and then a pandemic happened. And touring stopped. And then that’s when I went out to visit Harley, and most sitting in a studio. And, you know, two, three bottles of wine, I’m just sitting there and looking at this DW kit, turned around, looked at him, I said, How many of these drum kits do you have? And he’s like, Oh, three, or four and, like, got enough to put together a new peer kit. I guess what do you want to do that for? I’m like, I want to do a tribute to Neil, but not only do I want to do the tribute and you know, how cool would it be? If two guys did it? And he was like, okay, so we put on a couple of songs. And at first, it was just going to be leave that not Yeah. Or where’s my thing from roll the bones instrumental? And we listened to it. And then the next thing I’m like, You know what, it’d be cooler, if we just put together a bunch of songs.

Ari Gold: I immediately start hearing how the transitions are gonna work. I mean, well, that was the thing I didn’t I had no idea like how it was gonna work. And then, you know, Harley is like, so let me get this straight. You want to just like start putting these songs together and cutting them and and when do you want to do this, I’m like the anniversary of his death, which will be in about a week and a half. And he just looked at me and goes, Oh, Jesus, like you’re out of your mind. So he opens up this computer software or whatever, because he’s an engineer. I don’t know how to do any of that stuff, really. And we started picking songs like things that I revisited from my childhood, like this song would be cool. This song would be cool. And I just started cutting in like a cut it there, put that there, cut that there and then he started getting into going whoa, this would be cool to put it here. And he’s all getting excited. And I’m like this is gonna be ridiculous. And we hadn’t even rehearsed anything we were like we spent like a whole week putting together the the snippets of songs. You have to learn it. Yeah, we didn’t even learn it. Yeah, we’re just sitting there with like air drum and basically literally aerodrome drumming. See? Yeah, we’re mentioning that make me feel comfortable. That comes into the studio. He’s like, You guys have lost your mind. Because let alone wanting you to do this. Both of you. I’m like, oh, yeah, not only that, like we’re gonna hit the exact symbols and the exact Tom’s the whole deal. And then even I was questioning and also commonly when we can do this like, are we going to pull it off by the deadline? And then so we put together to thing we got to worry want to. And then I remember we made a couple passes. And I was like, You know what? That wasn’t bad. Okay, cool. Well painted, Harley comes in the mix and goes, Hey, do so I was listening to the songs you know that you know that song called mission that you played me with the xylophone part? We should do that. And I’m like, No, we should not do that. Because all my buddies got a mallet cat. So the mallet cat shows up. And then we’re back to the drawing board. And here we are trying to figure that out. He rewrote the whole medley Yeah, the whole method you have rewritten. And it just like, as soon as we would get one thing done, we would just one up each other. And he looks at me again. And he’s like, you know, we shouldn’t do like both of those really long fills and spirit Radio. I’m like, You know what, you’re really pissing me off right now. Because we got it where we want it, you keep making it harder, which I’m so glad that you did. Because like it was epic. And then you know, it went from we rolling the four or five minutes of rush to now it’s eight minutes and 30 seconds of rush. But you know, we did it. And I remember we finished rehearsing the night before the shoot. And I did two takes of it. And I was like, I’m good. I’m not even gonna force it. And I remember his dad looks at me and goes, you’re making a mistake you need to practice. It’s fine. And yeah, he did the same thing. And we just left it alone. And then the film guy shows up. You know, we knocked it out. And it blew up. People loved it. I still watch it.

Ari Gold: Yeah, go ahead.

Shaun Foist: I still watch it and just shake my head and go, Wow, we were crazy. Like to even think about doing something on that extent. Because, you know, it’s hard for one drummer to play Russian and play it correctly. And that was the other thing with the thing. I said, I’m not doing it unless it’s right. You know, it has to be right. Or we’re gonna get just, you know, torn apart online. So we dissected each Phil. I know, like, there was one song we spent two or three days just working on one, Phil, we were googling transcriptions. And we were really, yeah, you’re auditing each other. So I would sit here in the chair, watch him play, and listen really intently. And then he’d sit there and watch me play. And luckily, no fistfights broke out. It was intense. Because it was to the point like he said, we were standing in front of each other when we’re playing and won’t stop. You missed assemble. Stop too many kick drums stop. Like, I am surprised. We didn’t fight. But it was all good.

Harley DeWinter: Constructive, and it was it was really like it was great for both of us. I think as musicians too. I mean, I came out a better drummer just from doing that. Yeah. I feel better about playing in general and reignited a passion.

Shaun Foist: Yeah, I mean, cuz even he looked at me and he was like, you know, I wouldn’t have been a million years thought to even do anything like this. But now I like, I’m fired up about drums again, I didn’t even want to play drums. So you know what, we were both just over it. And even me, like, you know, toured for so long that the pandemic hit, and the break was good for me, like I was fine not playing shows, I was fine not being in the studio. And then when we did this, it was like, now I want to play shows, I feel better, I feel that I’m refreshed. And I’ve challenged myself. And you know, it’s gonna make me play my own stuff better. So you know, it all around, it made both of us better drummers. And we were more inspired. And we’re actually thinking about doing a part two.

Ari Gold: Really? So how many songs were included in the existing one?

Harley DeWinter: I think 11 I

Shaun Foist: think it’s a little reason alone.

Unknown Speaker: I think because we even have like your eight or 11 you have like add some Well,

Shaun Foist: I don’t remember because there’s four versions or four versions we

Harley DeWinter: did. I think we did a five minute pass and that had eight songs originally and we were originally trying to do nine I think subdivisions was supposed to be there and we couldn’t we couldn’t make it flow that was the only thing it was like there’s so many fantastic songs there but it was the flow between each song we were trying to really like okay, how can we make that drum fill go into this even with like y y z we did a 15 second clip and but it happens to be a very similar fill to digital man and we completely changed the field to went from like a straightforward to now all of a sudden you know, very six eight kind of thing. And so, you know, we were we were stressing trying to figure out what to put in there, where to put it and how to transition it. So there were songs that didn’t make the cut that we were like, Okay, well, we need to now do of course, you know, so

Shaun Foist: I He didn’t want to be typical and be like everybody else do Tom Sawyer why? Why is the time? Like? Yeah

Ari Gold: yeah, it was not all the obvious stuff. I mean,

Shaun Foist: the next one like who wouldn’t even thought to do that I get I’m like, No, but we’re gonna do a live verse like stupid

Ari Gold: there’s I should mention, by the way that you know, they’re the meal period special. The festival special from Modern Drummer is no longer it’s no longer streaming on Modern Drummer, but there’s a lot of beautiful, Neil appeared stuff that they have. They have Neo legends framed art, the legends book bundle, and I encourage everyone to go to modern drummer.com/shop Use promo code fab fab 20 Catchy right? Fabulous February 25 20. Oh, that’s because it’s 20% off. Fa V and get your Neil gear at modern drummer.com. And also, I’ll give a plug for myself. Come to adventures empower.com. And you can look at all my bonus videos with Neil period. I have a long interview with him I have my drum off with with Neil where I played. We played veal and I played the obvious one we played the most obvious we played Tom Sawyer, but it’s now I feel terrible. I’m over here going.

Shaun Foist: I don’t want to do the typical thing. And you’re like, hey, well,

Ari Gold: I will say when I will say when I asked him to be in the movie. I did get a message. He said Yes, first. But then he did say, What do you think about maybe doing something not as obvious as Tom Sawyer and I was like, come on the movie, man. Let’s just do the one that, you know, let’s do like the original thing that the aerodrome was, you know, eardrum was whatever genesis of the Bible of air grubbing.

Harley DeWinter: But yeah, it goes across. Does the Tom Sawyer Phil? Yeah.

Ari Gold: So yeah, I had a amazing experience getting to know him. I mean, I did not expected. I didn’t even know the message will get through. I sent out a kind of fan letter invitation to the independent movie. And he had been pretty reclusive for a while. And he apparently wanted to have some fun and do something goofy. And he came and he acted, playing himself. And, and then when the movie, the movie, independent film, we finished it. We played Sundance, we got some, like, people loved it. And there were people who hated it. And he came out to support and was like, Look, you can’t listen to the people who love you or the people who hate you. Because if you listen to one, you’re gonna believe the other. And it was really wise, beautiful advice. And then, and then we did a bunch of extra videos like we’re dropping to Tom Sawyer. And then I went off to Europe, and I did some air drum covers. I did why why is the I know another obvious one, but. And he was very impressed. He said, I might be the world’s best air drummer. When I sent him the YZ video. I agree. In score, you’re really good.

Shaun Foist: Drum, the Breaking Benjamin that’s

Ari Gold: Oh, and do that or you put me up to it. He did see me play real drums. He came to my band, I played in a band called The honey brothers. And I wasn’t the drummer, I play ukulele player, and sometimes singer. But I was swapped with the drummer, who was the actor Adrian during a who was also in Adventures of power, but he was the official drummer from the band, but two songs I would play drums. And so Neil came to see us play. And, and it was like a small venue like intimate venue celebrating the movie, you know, like private thing. So like, he was right there in front of me playing drums. And I’m looking at him like, I feel like such an asshole right now. But he was like, You know what, when you sat down the energy in the room got a lot hotter?

Shaun Foist: Yeah. Yeah, I can imagine.

Harley DeWinter: I actually didn’t know that. Adrian played drums that makes me love him even more, because I just grew up on entourage.

Ari Gold: We all when you meet a guy named Ari Gold.

Harley DeWinter: Yeah, I was like, we follow me. I was like, Oh my God.

Shaun Foist: I remember that. We were in a car. Ari Gold just phoned

Ari Gold: me. He did. See my reputation precedes me or something. But yeah, he’s Yeah, he played drums for years. And we’re not my band. It was our band. And total pleasure, a total pleasure to work with like always, like the bandwidth. We had. We had a fair number of fights. And Adrian was always the ones that kind of like I ended the fight, because he always just be like, you know, like and then he used a lot of fights and and I was actually concerned, you know, because he was such a kind of like loosey goosey type drummer, like

Ari Gold: when I cast him in Adventures of power like you know, you’re gonna have to learn a Neil peered song like, perfectly like every single accent every you know and so that you can aerodrome it because for the competition, I just needed it to be like a dance where like we’re drumming to where air drumming next to each other and like every single beat I wanted it to be like, spot on. And he nailed it. And so there’s when I watched like the climactic battle between me and him doing Tom Sawyer and I and I see Adrian doing like doing this part playing this cowboy doing Neal peered it’s there’s something like really touching about it because he really he put the work in

Ari Gold: wireless he does it flawlessly. So I mean, not like the master of course, but you know,

Shaun Foist: well, yeah, um, you know, we know what can be like demand. I mentioned. I said, No one can

Ari Gold: dethrone the king. Yes, no one can. I have Hold on a second. I’m gonna, I’m gonna bring it home. I get it. Like there’s gonna have a little show and tell for you

Shaun Foist: what it means he’s gonna go fill those wineglass up secretly.

Ari Gold: we have an official adventures to power. Oh, my little it’s a little worn from the years. But there’s the route right there. This. This is inspired. I can’t remember what drummer I saw. From the 70s Probably like a headband. new drummer. I feel like that was a thing. thing. Yeah, I guess it was a thing. Loverboy Yeah. Loverboy Yeah. Loverboy there’s a little boy song in the movie. But there were others too. I think Stewart Copeland also sometimes wore a headband. So

Harley DeWinter: it was a frickin this outfit, basically.

Ari Gold: Yeah, he he retweeted my air drum video recently. That’s the closest I’ve gotten to Stewart Copeland, but that was kind of nice. And then speaking of the crown that I have this, ah, brown, yes. And with my new beard, it’s, it’s rockin. So we, you know, I think we’re about out of time, we’re going to be moving towards streaming the movie. For those who want to watch the movie, we’ll continue to chat. Or you can watch the movie anytime you like, on Amazon. It’s called Adventures of power and every stream of the movie, we send it and it’s free on Amazon. But we’re still sending money for each stream to MusiCares, which supports musicians in need, which is really important in this time, especially gigging musicians who don’t have a support system. Or retired musicians. MusiCares is really, really essential, because without, without the musicians, we don’t have a culture, we don’t have a soul as a nation. And so MusiCares is a great organization to support. So watch the movie, and you’re supporting it. And please review us to write a nice review on Amazon. If you like it. You can also buy it on Vimeo and then even more money goes to MusiCares. And you can also donate to MusiCares. Just straight up, because it’s a great thing to do. So that’s a little a little plug. I will be running also for those of you who don’t want to watch the movie on your phones. A what a Amazon watch party for the first 100 People who do who come in here. It’s Adventures of power.com backslash. Watch watching. Hold on, let me make sure I got this right. Versus the power.com. Watching. I think that’s right. Yes, that’s right. And, and you can’t be on safari apparently, but then I’ll be able to chat to you while you’re watching the movie as well. If you have questions and want to drink some wine and talk about all the rock that’s in it. Is there anything that you Harley, Harley or Shawn want to say to your people, or my people or each other’s people about music, drumming, life philosophy?

Shaun Foist: That I think we nailed it, you know, the music cares is a big thing. You know, a lot of people don’t realize the impact that the music business took the whole pandemic thing too. And it’s a cruise. I mean, nurses are 12 million people in the business that are still unemployed. You know, so it’s a good thing. You know, like, I think you’re doing a really good thing and it’s awesome. So I just want to thank you personally for doing what you’re doing. because it’s amazing, and I think more people need to pick up on that. So sharing it you know, like, especially with the cruise you know without the cruise the bands can’t do what they do and you know, even band wise there’s bands that are hurting. I mean, bands aren’t millionaires like they all think that we are so

Ari Gold: yeah, that’s the thing. There’s a perception that oh, you’re a musician you know I got is a gravy train. It’s like it’s a gravy train for a couple of people. Well, there’s a person said 12 million people getting employed by an industry that’s now basically on the rocks. It’s on the rocks. It’s on the ropes. Excellent. We’re on. This is on the rock. It’s on the ropes. I was on the rocks and mixing my my drinking and boxing metaphors.

Ari Gold: But yeah, so MusiCares is a great, great organization. And,

Ari Gold: and it’s such a pleasure to talk to you guys.

This interview originally appeared on Hotsticks.fm.

See more about Shaun Foist & Harley DeWinter on the official site for Adventures of Power, the world’s greatest (and only) Air Drum Movie!

Enjoyed this session? Explore more from the Interviews Archive.

Sina and Jasmine embody two sides of the same modern story. Sina built her momentum through relentless consistency and a deep love of craft—starting in the middle of nowhere, with no band around her, and finding a global audience anyway. Jasmine started young, lived for performance, and used the internet as an extension of a life already pointed toward the stage. Their “YYZ” collaboration feels like the bridge between those worlds: precision, joy, and connection—across an ocean.

What I love most is the shared philosophy that keeps surfacing: you learn by copying what you love—and “playing it wrong” until it becomes yours. Whether it’s the Rosanna shuffle, throat-singing experiments at 11:30pm, or putting a guitar solo over a song that “wasn’t meant to have one,” the point is the same: keep expanding your palette, keep moving, keep becoming.

And yes—there’s still a part of me that wants to will an actual band into existence here. A real room. Real amps. Real eye contact. Real disagreement that turns into something new. I’ll be the first one air-drumming in the crowd.”

YYZ, Air Drumming, and the Joy of Commitment

Ari opens by connecting the dots between Sina and Jasmine’s cross-continental “YYZ” duet and his own Rush tribute history—then quickly detours into the sacred topic of air drumming. Both guests shout out Adventures of Power, and Ari makes the case (with workout logic) that air drumming might be harder than real drumming—at least on the heart rate.

Learning by “Playing It Wrong”

Sina breaks down her long relationship with the Rosanna shuffle—how she thought she “had it” at 14, only to realize years later how impossibly deep Jeff Porcaro’s feel really was. The conversation expands into how musicians evolve by chasing what they can’t quite do yet—studying jazz, borrowing from unexpected genres, and embracing the fact that everyone starts by imitating something they love… and doing it wrong until it becomes personal.

From Bedroom Stardom to Real Rooms

Sina and Jasmine talk honestly about the modern path—building careers online while craving the irreplaceable chemistry of being in a room together. Jasmine lives for performance and dreams of fronting her own band at Wembley; Sina came up without a local scene and wants to grow into live playing while continuing her YouTube world. Ari plays matchmaker, pushing the idea of a future band, and the episode lands on the central tension of this era: screens can launch you, but the stage still completes the story.

Watch video version here:

RAW TRANSCRIPT (Pardon the old-school glitches):

Ari Gold: I wish I could make Sina really big because she’s who we’re featuring in the in this drum live. She’s a brilliant drummer who made her name first on YouTube, but he’s actually has has a band called she might and is breaking out from covers into originals and is brilliant and can do anything. And can we start on the Zoom John? Okay, we’re live. And then those of us on other channels I I’ve just introduced Cena and I also want to introduce Jasmine star, who is a multi instrumentalist. Most famous as a guitarist, she was named one of the top five young guitarist of the year, last year and by Guitar World, and she’s a genius and she’s just released a single called the cliff which you can get on all channels. Go to Spotify, follow her on Spotify, she is named Jasmine star and she is a star. And I for those of you who don’t know me, my name is Ari Gold. I am in the Guinness World Records for air drumming. And I made a movie called Adventures of power, which I have on my it’s kind of fading off of my headband, which Neal peered from rushes in and it’s about air drummers in the American dream and it’s a comedy and you can watch it on Amazon or if you don’t live in the States. You can find it at Air drummer.com. And that’s me. So I’ve been doing these weekly shows with bands like we’ve heard anthrax and Styx and suicidal tendencies and lit and their monta and mostly drummers, but we’re honored to have when guitarists show up like Jasmine star or like Alex Skolnick did to talk about the meaning of music, the power of music, what inspires you? And then afterwards, we’ll play my movie for those who want to stick around for that. So why don’t we start with how we all kind of met. There is something we all have in common, you guys played a duet of from Germany to California of rushes, y, y, z. And I also played rushes, Y, Y, Z when I was in Germany for Neil Peart, the drummer of Rush so this is kind of a beautiful thing. I’m gonna try to stop this echo, I got a complaint of an echo.

Jasmine Star: Oh, good. While you’re trying to stop that I got a bit, of course, got to compliment you on the movie. Adventures of Power is awesome. I actually saw it last night. And it was it was awesome. And God did just say, oh my gosh, the level of commitment that you had to put into it to get those air drumming scenes was just amazing. I was so appreciative of it because it takes so much kind of just guts and commitment to just go and just do and you really just delivered on it. And so you did an awesome job with that as director, writer and actor in it.

Ari Gold: Thank you, thank you to the I mean, I got I got in shape for that air drumming. And there’s a joke in the movie that air drumming is harder than real drumming and I think Sina will probably disagree with me on this because she’s actually a genius drummer. But as a workout, it’s harder than drumming because you, you have nothing to bounce off of. So when you when you’re doing all the drumming, and particularly if you’re like in a squat position like this, you know, you have to hit down and up, down and up and up and down and you have nothing to bounce off. And I’ve tested it where I’ll play a song on drums and test my heart rate and then I play the same thing on air drums and it’s like heart rate is way higher. So for workouts.

Sina Drums: I believe that I believe that I can tell you mentioned that.

Ari Gold: You start as an air drummer, be honest before you play drums

Sina Drums: you Yeah, of course I played drums before I hit drums. I I personally I was never so much of an air drummer. So just drumming on anything I could find I’d like my lap or tables or whatever, I never really started to be really a drummer. But I also watched the movie yesterday. And I also really, really enjoyed it. So I will try it for sure. Whenever there’s no drum set around, and it’s also way nicer for our neighbors.

Ari Gold: Yeah, hold on, people are saying, okay, is this better? Turning off audio? To that get? Did that help the echo? I don’t know.

Jasmine Star: I don’t know. About on my end,

Ari Gold: we’re doing our best. Sorry, guys. But so were you. I mean, what convinced your family to let you start actually making noise, you know?

Sina Drums: Music was random, my family. So I am in a very, very, very lucky position that I didn’t have to convince anyone that I wanted to do this.

Ari Gold: I appreciate that. Your dad is a musician, right?

Jasmine Star: Yeah, right. He’s a guitar player actually. Jasmine? No, no, no, no. The answer to that Sina is yes, he is no matter what that is the correct answer. True. Whatever you’re supposed to say, Yes, he is better. It’s totally fine. I’ll take that. I’ll take one for the team we got on

Sina Drums: I need to be honest here. I need to be.

Jasmine Star: You’re totally welcome to throw me out.

Ari Gold: So your dad introduced you to music? Right? Or you started playing with him? And so what what were the bands that you grew up listening to?

Sina Drums: Oh, the first band. I listened to all the time with the Beatles. That’s just my starting point in music.

Ari Gold: Well, since I’m representing Modern Drummer magazine today on the Instagram as well, you know, we will work on it. We will work on getting you to Ringo. Yeah. And so you started by, you know, playing these covers. And Did you always know that you wanted to also play original music? Or did it start as a weird hobby that just got huge without

Sina Drums: it just happened? The whole YouTube channel just happened to me. It was this crazy idea. My dad had to just upload the son that I learned from my drumming lessons. Actually, Dream Theater cover that I put six months of my life into learning this because it just wanted to be able to play it. And then it was my dad’s idea. Just okay, now you learned it. And you don’t have any band to play that with. So let’s just film it and upload it to YouTube and see what happens. So yeah, viral? For? Yes. Yeah. No, actually, actually, no, it just saves so much time. This was in 2013, I uploaded my first video. And it gets some views. And it’s just, it’s getting some more views. And then some more but never really venntro viral. It’s just for me, it was the continuity of uploading all the time, consistently, again, and again, consistently.

Ari Gold: And Jasmine was set the same thing for you, where you just started posting and posting and posting and then watched your numbers go through the roof or what,

Jasmine Star: um, well, I kind of I started posting, I can’t remember when I think I was like 12 or 13. I was just it was what I was up to. And my dad always I’ve been working on music since I was three years old. So I’ve always just been working on music all the time. And so when I was about 12 or 13, I got an Instagram account. And I started just kind of posting my life on working on this guitar solo. I’m at a studio here I’m performing here that just that kind of thing. And then it started to just build and build and I’ve just really enjoyed being able to connect with other music lovers. And so it’s been a really awesome experience and then I kind of moved on from Instagram I kept going on Instagram and kind of posting what I was up to and then I started on YouTube and Tik Tok actually have seen it I think, for my first 1000 subscribers on YouTube because I had already gained a little bit of traction on Instagram, but I didn’t really have a lot going on on YouTube yet and then we did our YYC colab and that got me my first 1000 subscribers on YouTube.

Ari Gold: Oh wow. So your your more recent phenomenon. And Cena is responsible for your your she’s like the Frankenstein and you’re the monster that she’s created.

Sina Drums: I didn’t know Jasmine was really only talking about YouTube it’s just Instagram this more her thing and YouTube was more and more my thing so those

Ari Gold: on those on Instagram right now we’re saying Who is she and I’m going to your Instagram account is Jasmine

Jasmine Star: Jasmine star music

Ari Gold: okay it’s it’s she lost her phone so she’s you can you can go you can go to to SInas YouTube no Sinas all of our Facebook’s have this or actually go to the adventures by our Facebook because I know it’s there and yeah so those on Instagram sorry it’s just it’s what happens with with the the Internet things can be challenging

Ari Gold: okay now I pinned it intended for those who are lost

Ari Gold: so and by the way Sina you’re right, I held down my finger on it and that allowed me to pin so that was to wait for the YYZ rush thing I think the way where you see collab with Cena was was your your launch then Jasmine, I didn’t know that

Jasmine Star: for you to pretty much I mean I posted some stuff on YouTube like I had been if you go onto my about on YouTube, it says that I’ve had an account there for a very long time, which is true, but it was mostly you know, when I was 1011 just posting up like classical piano performances and stuff not like YouTube content tomorrow just like this happened today. And then but that was like where it really started was with why why is

Sina Drums: so amazing.

Ari Gold: She watched all of your videos late at night, she’s memorized them. She’s gonna AirDrop to them So Jasmine, you your as a guitarist. It’s strange that you that Carole King I’ve heard is what inspired you to become a musician. What What is the secret link between Carole King and why was he?

Jasmine Star: Well, um, wow, what a question.

Ari Gold: Gee, rock.

Jasmine Star: No, I, um, Carole King is awesome. Because she really, it shows that good songwriting is timeless, because you know, my grandmother used to listen to it. So then because of that my mom listens to it. And when she listens to it, she thinks of her mom. And now I listen to it. And I think Oh, my mom and my grandmother. So it’s really timeless music, but really, I’ve been my start music was purely classical, my older brother who’s five years older than me, and because he’s the overachiever in the household. He was like, I’m gonna play classical violin at age two, because I want to make my sister who hasn’t even been born yet. Look back, is basically how that happened. And then by the time I was three, he had already been playing for like six years. And so I have always been competitive my whole life. So I was like, okay, therefore, I’m doing that. And then I moved to piano pretty quickly, I found discovered pretty quickly after a couple of hours on violin that wasn’t, wasn’t my calling. So I switched to classical piano. And then I started singing when I was about seven, and then started playing guitar shortly after to accompany my singing. And then I heard Stevie Ray Vaughan and then yeah, that changed everything. And legitimately did that. Because I heard it. I was like, What is this? I must do this. And then that’s when I really got into like,

Ari Gold: Okay, what is this? I must do so you were competitive, even with Stevie Ray Vaughan. Oh, you wanted to beat him?

Jasmine Star: No, because he’s seen Ray Vaughn. He’s legendary. I have so much respect for him like, Oh man, I have so much respect for Stevie Rayvie Ray Vaughan and I just love listening to his music. I love playing it. I love stealing his legs like all of it is just like, so awesome to me. I don’t feel competitive with like a legend like that. I feel competitive with my older brother because why wouldn’t I be

Ari Gold: competitive with him after all this time?

Jasmine Star: Um, yes, but there’s so much of a mutual respect there. And he helps me so much to this day with whatever I’m working on and when I get a chance to I help him we work in completely different sides of music. He works in like Team Music and composing and scoring and all of that stuff and more on the classical side and rock. So it’s, it’s completely opposite and yet it’s really helpful to be on completely different sides of the spectrum musically because then when we come together we bring completely different perspectives, which would make a project really special.

Ari Gold: Right? Okay. So and in terms of the the kind of connection between you, you and Cena like it seems like you have a shared love of of Rush obviously because y y z scene had you ever play Van Halen you guys could do a Van Halen cover together. Yeah,

Sina Drums: we actually did, but my part was pretty small. And then when

Ari Gold: you went like this once at the beginning.

Sina Drums: I worked very hard on that.

Jasmine Star: Was a little bit worried, though. Not gonna lie because I wasn’t I did the hard part with it. Completely freeform, no click no anything. And because of that, I didn’t have your drum part. I was recording it separately, that the three hits that we did together. We’re gonna be out of time.

Ari Gold: Yeah. You have the time it you had to listen to her thing in time and pretend she was going like this.

Sina Drums: Right? Yeah, actually. So that’s, that’s where it gets difficult because usually I do a lot of collaborations and I know how to record on separate parts of the planet and edit it together and make it sound like we’re in the same room and it works if you play on the same track, or if one person records their part first and then the second person plays on top of their part. But this time it just didn’t work out. I don’t remember anymore. Why probably I had to get off to the Netherlands. And we wanted a video so I just I played the drums on top of the original and then I left and I let my dad handle this and then Jasmine sent her part but she just played it like she said with no click and not on top of the original just at your own time when she was

Ari Gold: a free flowing musician

Jasmine Star: getting the eruption in time with Eddie it’s gonna be impossible for me to get every single thing perfectly because

Ari Gold: we talked about this jasmine if you as a guitarist want to get on the cover of Modern Drummer magazine, you have to do you have to do fingerpicking and convince Modern Drummer that this is like paradise. That is but you know i The obvious choice for you guys would be to do hot for teacher because I know Jasmine’s already done Han for teacher. It does have the most amazing drum part. And I have played hybrid teacher as an air drummer in front of 7000 people in Finland. So if you need a backup air drummer to do the second Tom part because actually when they play live, Eddie would stand next to Alex and hit times at the same time, which is something that you can listen to what it’s like this is impossible. It’s like yeah, it is impossible because there’s two people but I’m happy to perform the air drums alongside you guys when

Jasmine Star: you’re on vocals. You’re on vocals.

Ari Gold: I’m on air Yeah, maybe I could do maybe I could do the vocals. He had his scream though. They believe Roz scream is unstoppable. Oh, he

Jasmine Star: could literally he was basically hitting pinch harmonics with his voice. Yeah, exactly. Harvest a key way I could say that he’s doing and he’s pinch harmonics, but with his voice.

Ari Gold: I think of him as like a tube and Tuvan throat singer where he can do like multiple melodies at the same time. Have you heard those guys from two?

Jasmine Star: I can do a really really really bad impression of it, which I will not be doing here and you can’t say that. Please. The way you do it is how they do it or to originally get it because I’ve totally not gotten on YouTube binges and watch tutorials of how to do this because I was floored that didn’t happen. So know how you have to do is you have to go from an EU to an E really slowly, super like in your head voice. slow enough you can start to get the harmonics. My brother and I have tried to get the harmonics in like chords in harmony and it is the most obnoxious thing in the world to my parents. And it’s been I’ve strictly remembered already. This is probably probably like six weeks ago. It was like probably 1130 at night. My brother We’re talking our parents into bed because we go to bed. We were telling them good night, and somehow doing multi harmonic throat singing came up. And so my brother started trying to imitate it while they were trying to go to sleep at like 1130 at night, and then try to get me to do the harmony on it. And what about as well as it sounds? And that is all I will be saying,

Ari Gold: wait a minute. No, I’m imagining that it actually sounded good.

Jasmine Star: You severely overestimate our harmonic challenge.

Ari Gold: Well, I think you I think you should work on that because I think adding throat singing to your repertoire. I mean, I know the clip I mentioned the cliff again to Cliff, your new single on Spotify now, everywhere. The 2022 version of the cliff, I think should have throat singing in it. And I think it should to bring everything hums Cena should play her drumsticks on on a guitar. Tina, you did that on a track? I did, which can be done. I have a ukulele as someone you don’t want to hear that. But I have a little miniature miniature keyboard A melodica you know, like a miniature essentially accordion and a miniature guitar, AKA a ukulele and a miniature surfboard. So I have a question about the shuffle. For Cena. I am also a big fan of Jeff Porcaro. There’s something that feels like brain massage to listen to his drumming. I feel like it could heal people from traumatic brain injury because it’s so rich. What? What do you love about Jeff Porcaro? And what’s really hard about doing his drumming?

Sina Drums: That’s, it’s so hard to explain. I think. When I when I grew up, when I started to play drums, actually, my dad would, who is a huge influence for me, we already talked about that. But he said, Okay, the most difficult thing you could ever learn on drums, is there wasn’t a shuffle. So, of course, I went like, Okay, I have to figure this out. So I went to my drumset. And I said, Okay, I want to learn this. And he showed me how to do it. So I knew, Okay, it’s the shuffle. It’s done. You do that with your right hand, and then you fill up the space with your left hand. And so I learned that, and I wanted to be able to play it. And then I was, I think I was 14 years old. And I thought, okay, that’s easy. I can do this novel. So I recorded the video, I uploaded it. And I thought, Okay, nice time. I’m amazing. I could, I can play Rosanna finish now I don’t have to learn anything. And it was only later that I realized I couldn’t do anything. It just what I did sounded so horrible. And then I only realized how incredibly hard it is to play the Roseanna shuffle like Jeff Carroll did. It’s just, I don’t think it’s possible.

Ari Gold: It’s just, it sounds so relaxed.

Sina Drums: He sounds so relaxed. And he also he is relaxed.

Ari Gold: It’s well, I mean, but think about this though. John Bonham did his own version of a shuffle inspired by Jeff Porcaro. And he made it his Yeah. So you know, on, on the obvious song. Don’t blanking on the name of the song. Jasmine helped me what’s the name of the song

Jasmine Star: that I took from her so she gets to kind of follow the rant. It’s funny though, because I went through a phase where I’m like, I’m gonna learn drums, which I would still love to do, but I just really haven’t had time to properly put in the work to learn drums. But I went through a bit of a time where I was like, Okay, I’m going to really dedicate myself to this and do and I understand basic music theory. So like, I can understand what I’m supposed to be doing. It’s just a matter of actually doing it. But fool in the rain, that was one of the first beats that I learned was that and I could play it out of time. However, my hands and feet lined up, so I will take that as a win. Even though if you put a clip to it, it would be so embarrassing. But it was the digit right? And so I remember instead of learning it like the proper drummer, where I learned it like a pianist where I just really They tried to, I just looked at like the drum tab for it and tried to just remember what went together so I could view it as one sequence. So it was like, kick in hi hat that goes together, then snare then that’s a ghost. And I wasn’t viewing it as a beat as like a continuous phrase, I was viewing it as every single beat. It’s just this to this to this and try to learn the coordination like that. And I showed it to a guitar coach who I was working with at the time, who also is a really good drummer. And I remember him looking at me like, I don’t know how you learned that as your first when I graduate. This was terribly executed. I’m not like I was amazing. It was not amazing adult, let’s get this very much. But that was like one of the first beats that I learned. And I’m a little proud of myself for it. But I know if I watched a video of it, I’d be very ashamed of myself for it.

Sina Drums: You really shouldn’t be that’s, that’s just the way to start.

Ari Gold: I think the way to start is to watch the Bernie party shuffle. Because Have you guys seen those videos? Yeah. The way he talks about ghost notes is a shuffle in itself. I mean, it’s just like, his love of, of ghosting makes you just like you start moving your chair and like, I think, I think Jeff Porcaro got his shuffle as a kind of development of the Bernie party shuffle and then John Bonham got it from so it’s it’s beautiful how people it’s like the the Chinese food in in San Francisco that was American style Chinese food was started by the the workers who came over to build the railroad and were trying to imitate the cooking of their families back home and didn’t know what they were doing. And they just kind of made it up as they went along. And that made American style Chinese who, and same way as like the shuffle can. Someone who doesn’t know how to like, Maybe Jeff Porcaro thought he didn’t know how to do the marine shuffle. Maybe. John Bonham thought he didn’t know how to do the Jeff Porcaro shuffle, but each person by trying ends up accidentally creating their own version of it. And I think that’s,

Sina Drums: yeah, that’s the whole point of music, isn’t it? Everyone starts learning their instrument by playing stuff they like, and then playing it wrong. By playing it wrong. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Ari Gold: Well, hello, something just happened here. Oh, sorry. Technical difficulties. So I’d love to hear from getting an echo. And I’d love to hear what you guys are planning on doing next. With each other, and then maybe each of you can tell tell everyone what your what your next big project is on your own. Have you ever met in person? The two of you? No, no. Okay. So

Jasmine Star: first time actually even like talking to each other in real time. Email or DM?

Ari Gold: Well, so I’m playing matchmaker, although you guys are already in that. So I have a vision because Jasmine is a singer guitarist and wants to play Wembley Stadium, and Cena is one of the great drummers coming up on the planet right now. I know Cena you will have a band. Which I’d like to talk about she it’s called she might It looks like she might for those of

Sina Drums: you that. It’s she made us the name of the project. It’s not the name of the band. So

Ari Gold: okay. Okay, so that’s where you collaborate with other artists have a band

Sina Drums: and play together with different musicians. Okay, I called the project you might it’s not a band. It’s just

Ari Gold: so what is keeping a band of you guys forming?

Sina Drums: Yeah, it’s on opposite sides of the planet love so much to be in a band with your Jasmine and all this creativity that just flowing out of you. And it’s it’s incredible the amount of instruments you can play on level. It’s just it’s totally amazing blows my mind. I would love to be in a band with you. But it’s just so difficult.

Jasmine Star: Thank you, Sarah. You’re I mean, you’re absolutely incredible. You’re just such an amazing drummer and such an amazing person. You’ve always just been the nicest person to me and like for me, my thing has always been I want to work with like the best most kind people on the planet and definitely When you qualify for that, so one day, hopefully at some point, if I get to visit Germany at some point, probably post pandemic and all of that, at some point, I would love to get to jam with you, at some point, really I opposite sides of the world. And it can it works for like covers and stuff when we both already know what’s going on. But for the actual, like, creativity of like being in the room with someone I want.

Ari Gold: It’s a different thing. It’s, I mean, in, even in my movie Adventures of power, there’s a whole I mean, it’s a joke, because it’s all about air drummers. But there’s this thing about a team of oops, sorry, audio went out. There’s the thing about how you create a team energy and the difference between, you know, someone being their own hero versus being a hero because you have a group and, and and let’s say there’s a five person group, and that becomes 10, or 20. And there is a strange thing that’s happening right now in music with people becoming, and there’s no criticism in this, but people becoming stars playing in their, in their rooms, or in their closet or whatever. Obviously, the the culture now is experiencing life through these screens. But being in a room with someone and other musician, and being in a room with the audience is, is a completely different experience. And do you guys have any nervousness about making that transition from, you know, the comfort of your rooms to playing with other musicians who have other egos, and playing with an audience that has its own ego and desires? If any, either of you can answer was curious if you’re scared.

Jasmine Star: And soon, I hope you don’t mind. If I know. For me, I live performing is my passion. That’s what I truly do. I just love it so much to me that being on stage is the best feeling in the world. And I started as a Live Performer and I am a Live Performer. And as the world kind of starts to open up, I hope to be doing more live performances. But I guess what I’m trying to say is that that is just what I love so much. And I haven’t been able to do it as much because of the pandemic. But that is my passion. And that’s where I just feel just I just love it so much that I’m not nervous about it. Because right now, any chance at all to get to play live, I just get so excited for whether it’s the smallest venue in the world or the largest venue in the world. I just get so excited and I think that we live

Ari Gold: with I mean, speaking of Germany, and liveness you played live with scorpions, right? On KOLs Are you over zoom? Okay, over zoom, okay. I would you know, you if you you could get into one of their good cases and sneak your way to Germany with them and then possibility form you

Jasmine Star: know, I agree that’s, that’s definitely what I’m gonna do. I’m just gonna actually I’m leaving for that tonight. I haven’t told anybody because you know, I got it, like sneak into the drum case or whatever. But that was part of the plan.

Ari Gold: You know what you say when you when they pull you off the tarmac and they open it up and it’s you in the inside and you’re in Germany, you say

Jasmine Star: imitation and impersonation of what is going to happen. I’m excited for it. That is what I’m going to do.

Ari Gold: Just give me 10% of everything you make as a as the the scorpions cover band. We tour all the favorite places in Bavaria to play Scorpion covers. No, you guys have bigger, bigger bigger dreams than that. So okay, so and see now how about you have you done much live performing?

Sina Drums: Yeah, I do not have a lot of experience with that. So I did not start a live musician. For me, it was the other way around. I just didn’t have a learning how to play the drums and I didn’t have a band. I didn’t have the possibility to meet with other people because there was just no one around where I live. So I started a YouTube channel not knowing what to do with my

Ari Gold: life off in the countryside somewhere.

Sina Drums: Yeah, in the middle of nowhere, actually.

Ari Gold: That’s a beautiful thing. That never would have happened in the past that someone could become like a world renowned musician, while stuck in a small town to like, put their their instrument on their back and hitchhike to New York City and You know, live in the bus station for a couple of weeks and work their way up. And you know, you’re able to turn on, turn on off camera and show your talent. That is a beautiful thing.

Sina Drums: Yeah, that’s that’s so true. And I appreciate that so much. Yeah, really, it’s I, I also I, of course, I want to be a live musician I want to perform also, I also want to continue the YouTube channel, because this has just been such an amazing experience for me. And

Ari Gold: people love you. There’s a lot of people who love you, as as you I know that there’s a lot of people ask him to marry which is gets to be a headache, I guess.

Sina Drums: Yeah, yeah. I actually put that on my FAQ.

Ari Gold: No, thanks. The FAQ was no thanks.

Sina Drums: Sorry, most probably not sorry, the bearer of bad news.

Ari Gold: So what else? I mean, I, I wanted to bring up by the way, some drummers that I mean, you were trying to get I’m trying to get Greta Van Fleet to do my show. But you did a great Brandon fleet cover? Who would you love to open for with the band a band that is yet to be formed? Maybe Maybe you’re gonna play drums for Jasmine star and her slaves or whatever she calls?

Jasmine Star: Certainly not what I would be calling it.

Ari Gold: Well, this is a question, sir, I want to go back to you for a second. But like you said, you were toggling between I’m not sure I want to be a band or just be, you know, had to be my thing. So like, the question is, Could you could you see something where you actually have a collaborative band? Or would you want to? Like what were? What were something where you could actually disappear into a band? Even if you’re the singer? Can you imagine

Jasmine Star: my dream since I was very little like the Wembley Stadium thing, just so you know, isn’t like a new thing. I’ve been walking around telling people that since I was like, nine years old. So at this point, it’s gonna be really embarrassing if it doesn’t happen. So like, the cliff, check it out. Now stream it? No. Yes. No, but my dream since I was little has always been to Front my own band. And that’s always been what I’ve been working towards is to be the lead of a band of like it being Jasmine star, and just having a backing that and that sort of thing has always been my dream. But that doesn’t mean that I’m not open to other things. I love working with other musicians, I think it can be a lot of fun. And so there’s always room to work with awesome people. Like, I think that the world would be a better place if we all just took some time and got to work with super talented, super awesome, super kind, nice people. And so I’m always down to do that. That’s always my my dream has always been to be Jasmine star and to have my own show, and I have my own band and to do but with that being said, I’m still so open to working with awesome people, especially people like Cena, because like, she’s amazing. And like, why wouldn’t I want to? She’s incredible.

Ari Gold: Yeah, I think I mean, I think about someone like, I don’t know, Sting where, you know, when he was able to call all his own shots, it takes on a certain very sting like quality, but when there were three egos clashing, what the police were able to create, even though sting wrote, you know, more of the songs or he wrote most of the songs on, you know, technically the musical contributions of, of the two other guys was, was equal and, and the combat of artistic differences. I think, you know, when you’re lucky, you can create something that a solo artists, for me anyway, as a listener, like I always like a band when I can hear everyone with their own complete and like the gist, you can hear the disagreement in the police and I love that you can hear like winnaman that doesn’t fit together or shouldn’t fit together. And yet, it’s amazing the energy of these three guys with totally different tastes and influences fighting each other and then putting that into the music. I love that. So maybe you too.

Jasmine Star: Well, I think you can do that without fighting each other like you can have disagreements without it being an ego thing. out of the picture,

Ari Gold: I have a twin brother who did all of the music for adventures of power his name’s Ethan gold he’s also on Spotify, even gold on Spotify. But, and we we would fight all the time loving fight. I don’t necessarily mean that people want to strangle each other but just you know, artistic artistic disagreement is people bringing you know someone who has like a scene out you know, kind comes out of loving Ringo and Jeff Porcaro and Zeppelin. And there’s like, kind of like the influence of her father’s musical tastes like in her. And then Jasmine comes at it with a completely different thing that you actually additive. It’s like, if you only listen to yourself, you only have your own influences. But if you know if you were to bring on I don’t know, like, an African bass player who never listened to rock and roll. Yeah, yeah,

Sina Drums: I totally agree. I totally get what you’re saying. Of course, you can need to play with other people just to, to, to make your Horizant bigger. I don’t know. That’s a German expression. And sorry. I don’t think

Ari Gold: you can do expression.

Sina Drums: Awesome. That’s awesome. And now I would start again, I would say it again, I think it’s incredibly important to, to work with other musicians as well. Of course, like I said, everyone has a different background, and everyone I played with, I have learned something from, of course. So I hear something, I, I take it, I feel it, I make my own thing out of it. I think by meeting life, and in person in the same room, this happens much easier and faster. Of course, but I’m also what I was doing, like working with so many different musicians on on to made. This was such an amazing experience. And I will continue to do it because I love it so much to work with so many different people. And each song has a different, completely different collaborator. Right? On

Ari Gold: Sina, I’m going to stop here to keep this deliverable usable in one message—your transcript is long, and I don’t want to risk truncation in ChatGPT. If you paste the remaining portion (from “Ashima. Yeah, yeah…” onward), I’ll continue the same clean formatting and deliver the complete transcript as one continuous document.

This interview originally appeared on Hotsticks.fm.

See more about Jasmine Star & Sina Drums on the official site for Adventures of Power, the world’s greatest (and only) Air Drum Movie!

Enjoyed this session? Explore more from the Interviews Archive.

From Korn to the Control Room: Ray Luzier and the Producer’s Ear

The conversation opens with Ray Luzier (Korn) and producer Nick Raskulinecz unpacking the unique trust between drummer and producer—especially when that producer speaks the language of drums fluently. Nick explains his famously hands-on approach, from dialing in tones to stopping a take mid-performance to swap a snare head without letting the drummer even stand up. It’s a rare glimpse into the quiet decisions that elevate a track from solid to undeniable.

Deep Cuts, Hits, and the Korn Setlist Reality

Ray reflects on the strange mathematics of Korn’s live shows—balancing deep cuts with era-defining anthems like “Freak on a Leash,” and why some songs had to be retired after the TRL era demanded them night after night. The discussion expands into Korn’s willingness to take creative left turns, including experiments that divided fans but ultimately kept the band evolving instead of repeating itself.

Rush, Resonance, and Why Drumming Lives in the Nervous System

The conversation drifts—naturally—into Rush. Ray and Nick talk about the seismic impact of Moving Pictures, the emotional weight of Clockwork Angels, and why Neil Peart’s playing still feels like a direct neurological transmission rather than a technical exercise. It becomes clear that for both men, drumming isn’t just rhythm—it’s memory, muscle, and identity intertwined.

Watch video version here:

RAW TRANSCRIPT (Pardon the old-school glitches):

Ari Gold: Hello. I am Ari Gold the director of the air drum movie Adventures of Power, which Neil Peart was in. I’m the Guinness Book World Record holder for air drumming, and I am so psyched that Ray Luzier, who’s air drumming in the background from Korn and from many other things, such as playing for David Lee Roth, which we want to talk about is joining us and producer extraordinare of all things hard, Nick Raskulinecz is with us as well. They are in coming to us from Nashville. I’m in Venice, California and we are talking about rock drums, air drums, metal, whatever strikes our fancy. Hi guys, look, I thank you so much for joining the Air drummer extravaganza and by doing this you are supporting MusiCares because anytime anyone watches or buys the movie even watching it for free on Amazon, money gets sent to MusiCares. So it’s a beautiful thing. And Ray and I didn’t meet but we’re both on the Neil Peart festival special on Modern Drummer which is presenting this event and so anyone who hasn’t seen those four plus hours of incredible stories, drumming all about Neil Peart please go to Moderndrummer.com/shock and watch that special. So with that out of the way I would love to know what you are doing together in in Nashville right now. What’s happening in that studio, Falcon Rock?

Nick Raskulinecz: Rock Falcon studios in Nashville. There’s nothing happening right now. We’re just kind of hanging out doing this. And I’m working on records here. But we’re kind of in a holding pattern right now because of the virus.... and thats about it. There’s not a lot happening actually.

Ari Gold: What was the last project you guys worked on together?

Ray Luzier: Nothing.

Nick Raskulinecz: That was the last Korn album and nothing.

Ari Gold: Uh huh. Okay, and so what what how did how did Ray push your buttons in the most insane way? I will I want to hear some stories of like, I want to hear you guys want to punch each other because you can’t be this comfortable without having some moment when you wanted to kill each other.

Ray Luzier: Me pushing your buttons is the other way around.

Ari Gold: Alright, so how did Nick—

Ray Luzier: Yeah, I’m like in there like, bashing my brains. I sweat dripping on thinking I just murdered him. Whatever. This is awesome. Nick thats cool, man. Let’s let’s be ready to do the take now. What we talking about?

Nick Raskulinecz: That was the 10 Was it? Great warm up pass now let’s do it for real.

Ray Luzier: Now. But he’s rad though. Because like he the way he goes about it. He obviously the outside ears. That’s what we hire someone amazing, as amazing as Nick to do what he does, because you know, we’re trapped. And we kind of when you write the songs you have this you’re kind of married to the tunes, you’re kind of these parts are mean something to you. It takes a great outside here to come in and go. That’s cool. But what if you tried this? And what if this became the chorus instead of the first and then he starts to rearrange and stuff and even down to my drumming? Like, like, Hey, man, you know that thing? You do? And I And so yeah, cool was that? Yeah, don’t don’t do that in the past. I’m like, but that’s I always do that.

Nick Raskulinecz: The only thing I can think of is when I asked ray to take his flash symbols away.

Ari Gold: That that just doesn’t work for him. You don’t like flash symbols. I like one. One symbol.

Nick Raskulinecz: I don’t like three or four. Yeah, add a bunch.

Ari Gold: I mean, you know, you could go you know, go all. Phil Collins, Peter Gabriel 1980 and have no symbols.

Nick Raskulinecz: We’ll see. I would love that. But no drummers willing to do that. It’s like making somebody that’s like making a chick shave her head.

Ari Gold: Yeah, but it worked. It worked for him in the air tonight. And I mean, you know, the one of the ultimate air drum songs.

Ray Luzier: Times do the two things separate. It’s fun. It’s time consuming, but it’s fun. The results are great. I think we talks about if we ever record again together, we should do that next time we talked about it. I mean, honestly, the moments working with this guy. The moments there are no tense or wierdness it’s the exact opposite the moments of hilarity and laughing and cracking up and roasting the shit out of each other is what happens pretty much the whole time. And then it’s like, oh, yeah, we’re recording drums that was that take? I don’t know. I was laughing the whole time. Listen to it again.

Ari Gold: Ray you were teaching before you were like a rock star. Is that correct? Like you’ve been? Awesome. I mean, like that you have a comfort where you can it’s it’s effort, you’ve reached that point of mastery, where it’s effortless. So you can laugh your head off, boy. Well—

Ray Luzier: Yeah, I’m very. To me, I have a long, long, long way to go. And I’m a my worst critic. And it’s like, it’s like, yeah, I was a teacher. I started very young, you know, I’ve moved from Pennsylvania, on 180 acre farm to Hollywood Boulevard to because I knew I wouldn’t meet anybody in Pennsylvania wouldn’t be able to people like that. Everyone in the industry. So I moved to Hollywood, and I attended musician’s Institute for a year with a PIT and I thought I was like, hot shit filled up the farm with check this out. And it was like inner like, yeah, your timing is not happening. Here’s a metronome. Oh, okay, you know, just, and then the humbleness just, it just knocked me down to size and like, your jazz is not good. Your Latin sucks. And what’s what’s that a reggae beat? And so I was like, I got my ass. Remember? You hate my reggae. But like, there’s so many, you know, styles. I just I was naive. I was 18. You know? So it was like, when I moved to LA went to that school, there was no rock program. So it was all like jazz metal, or I’m sorry, jazz, you know, fusion all the big band stuff. So I was one of the ones complained to Ralco. Green Joker Pyro Hey, like, get right and get a rock program. So when I graduated, but skin of my teeth two years later, they call me said, Hey, if you read rock curriculum, we’ll hire you. I’m like, 22 years old, 21, whatever. So that’s fine. So I started three hours a week, and I went the 33 hours a week. And I really didn’t know what I was doing. But it kind of forced me into this, like, you better get good. And you better know your shit.

Ari Gold: The best way that yeah, the best way to learn is if you’re forced to teach anything, and especially winging it, and faking it, and looking at you, like you’re supposed to know what you’re talking about. But it forces you to, I mean, it’s like the difference between practicing at home versus playing in front of an audience, like the amount of muscle learning you get from the pressure of an audience by not quadruples, whatever you learn by going, or whatever instrument you’re learning.

Ray Luzier: Right? Absolutely.

Ari Gold: I tell my girl, girl I met on the beach, she’s like I want to be while she’s a learning metal guitar. She’s sitting there like doing scales. And I’m like, You got to turn on your amp and like, let the people on the beach hear you. Because it’ll singe into your nerves, your taste and your triumphs. So teaching must have teaching must have made you the drummer that you are. That’s my theory. I don’t know You tell me.

Ray Luzier: Well, I mean, I moved to LA, I moved to LA to become you know, I wanted to be a known, respected player. I didn’t want to conquer the drumming world, I didn’t want to be the best. I didn’t want any of that. I just wanted to be in a band that kept making records that I wanted to make a living playing music, you know whether I did the rock star thing, or, you know, hadn’t many failed original bands, like every other band in LA, then I found out when I started joining national bands, I’m like, Well, I can pay my phone bill now joined the Jake E Lee band. And when I was 24. And I’m like, Well, I’m making making steady money. And I’m going to tour bus. This is more of my style. I don’t want to teach. So around, you know, I’d get these little tours around teaching. When I finally did the daily rough gig and it was like real money, real gigs. And I’m like, Well, I stopped teaching at that point. And then I need to do this on this level and start—

Ari Gold: Off. Oh, sorry, Nick, go ahead.

Nick Raskulinecz: I said as soon as Ray figured out he never had to set his drums up again. He was like this is it. I made it.

Ari Gold: Wait theres a Roadie. Yeah. Can we get a .....before I ask Nick about what Nick, when did you move to When did you you were in the LA scene and then you move back to Tennessee? Like did you guys meet in LA or have did? Did you start working together once you had your studio in Tennessee?

Nick Raskulinecz: No. I moved back here in 2007. And I met Ray, right before we made the first record we made together.

Ray Luzier: Serenity of Suffering never leaves his mind.

Nick Raskulinecz: We didn’t we never met right up until then. We met at a Thai restaurant. Remember?

Ray Luzier: I walked in your your whole family. We’re sitting there. Yeah. And you’re like, Hey, man, I’m Nick. And I’m like, Oh, you are Nick, what are you doing here? Yeah, we—

Nick Raskulinecz: Just met haphazardly at this little Thai restaurant in this little strip mall in Tennessee. Uh huh. And then we work together in the studio for a day. And then I went on the road with Korn for like, 10 days, they did like a nine, nine day run. And I went with him. And that’s when we really started to hang out with—

Ari Gold: You went on the road with you? Were you recording for them? Or were you like playing, playing it? Underneath the stage playing something else? What are you a groupie?

Nick Raskulinecz: I was basically out in I was standing on either standing on the side of the stage airing everything along with them. Or I spent a lot of the time out in the crowd, actually, my whole mission of going was to actually watch the crowd. And to see what the kids were reacting to figure out what worked best. And all that stuff. So I would just kind of cruise around while they were playing their Set and cruise around the whole building.

Ari Gold: Were they testing out new material that you were going to then be recording or was it you were just getting getting absorbing their old material so that you could get a sense of what was the best kind of vibe?

Nick Raskulinecz: Yeah, it was it was the latter. There weren’t any we didn’t. There weren’t any. We weren’t even working on any songs yet. I think it was still getting to know each other period.

Ari Gold: Because secretly you wrote all their songs. I know. You told me that backstage. I won’t tell anyone. I wish. Yeah, okay, so well, that was that. That’s a good way to get to know somebody where you like, in the tour van with them, or were you following them?

Nick Raskulinecz: We had a blast? Yeah, it was so much fun. We had a blast, and I flew home completely exhausted. And I was like, Man, I’m glad I’m not in a band.

Ari Gold: But you you played in bands. Before back in the day? No,

Nick Raskulinecz: I played in bands. I moved to LA with my band. My best friends. We moved to LA and gave it a shot. You know, it didn’t work out. But we did the whole thing moved to Hollywood. And you know, get the whole deal, man. It was rock and roll Ralph’s. You totally know we live right over off Highland over there. Oh—

Ari Gold: My god, you’re fucking right in the center of it. I used to see Rodney stumbling around there at four in the morning. Did you ever know him? Yeah.

Nick Raskulinecz: Yeah, we used to speak to see him at bars all the time. Yeah, it was like 95 to 2000. So it was nice.

Ari Gold: Those who don’t know he was or, you know, is it anyway, he was sort of an emissary of like the party scene going way back to like David Bowie time. And he’s a fixture around the scene and particularly at Rock and Roll Ralphs at four in the morning. Kind of stumbling in with his, He looks like Slenderman kind of and you know, have some kind of dazed looking girl following him like six feet behind him. Am I wrong?

Nick Raskulinecz: Rock and roll rocks is the only place in the world where you can run into Paul Stanley.

Ari Gold: That in his bedroom? But I can’t you froze? Can one of you clap? I can’t. I can’t see or hear anything. Hey, John. Okay, you’re back to life back to life. Okay, maybe it’s just my system. So let’s talk I’m be curious to know, you know, that I heard from I heard from Arejay Hale of Halestorm, who I talked with last week, or a couple weeks ago, that there’s some neil Peart drums in your studio. Is that true? And and I’d love to hear about your relationship with Neil. And then I don’t know, Ray, if you you know how intimate you were with Neil Peart. And but I’d love to, you know, because, in some sense, Neil brought us together. I’d love to hear anything that you know, you can share because I know there’s a lot of people who are still feeling that loss. Were at the anniversary of the loss a couple days ago. And anything you can share that might help people feel close, that would be sweet.

Nick Raskulinecz: Well, I’ve got a drum set. So when we were making snakes and arrows, he had this drum set. And it was awesome. It was the first kit DW built for him when it came back when drums after his extended break. And at the end of the record, he was like oh, you know, I’ve got I’ve got something for you. And I was like what? And he had a five piece version of his big giant drum set made and gifted it to me And it was so cool. Because a couple months later, we actually went to the DW place out in LA. This was still when I lived in California. This was before I moved. And Neil shows up at the house in is fucking . And my wife Amber’s like, hey, there’s somebody in the car in the driveway and some crazy car. And I was like, oh, yeah, that’s Neil hes coming over, we’re gonna go out to DW. So we jumped in my suburban and drove out to DW. And all the guys were there. And he was like that. And it was a little five piece version of his drum set, which I still have. And I use it all the Tah Dah. And it’s amazing. And we did a whole tour of the factory together. It was super cool. And then we drove back to my house.

Ray Luzier: So freaking cool, this is the coolest part was you ride a DW with Neil?

Nick Raskulinecz: Dude. So Neil helped me unload the drum set out of the back of my suburban hump it up into my house. We set it up. And we sat there and played it together in the room for like, an hour. You play with Neil? Yeah.

Ari Gold: So you play drums? Like, like hot for teacher style to two drummers?

Nick Raskulinecz: No, we just it was just that one drum set but we just took turns playing.

Ari Gold: I played drums in front of Neil once it with my my old band called The honey brothers. And he came to a show and it was like a little intimate place for the release of the movie. And I’m playing drums and I’m looking at it. like what am I doing? But, but how was it to play like, for you right in front of him.

Nick Raskulinecz: That was awesome. But he was even more awesome. On the last record Clockwork Angels. We actually had two kits set up in the room. And we fully fucking had jam sessions. And while drum moments and you know, it was it was awesome. Wow, there was a lots of fun jamming, you know, after everybody went to bed and it was just me and Alex some nights, you know, I’m sitting there looking at the drumset it’s like, Dude, I look at him. And it’s like, you wanna he’s like, okay, let’s play circumstances. So there were, there were a lot of really cool moments like that, you know, and to all the Rush fans out there. Yeah. I can’t believe it’s already been a year, but he was such an awesome person. It’s so much fun. And we had a lot of fun together. We really did.

Ari Gold: Yeah, I think I mean, his impression, I think for the to the public was like this, like super serious scientist, you know, the professor like, but in person, there was this incredible warmth and love that you’ve that I felt, you know, I mean, I, I also hung out with him at at Dom Lombardi’s, you know, at DW drums and, you know, the feeling of like, welcomness that he gave to everyone that he dealt with, and, you know, his humbleness, given who he was, and what his reputation was as amazing contrasts, beautiful thing. And intelligence he brought to all of it. And also, you know, we talked about, like, learning and, you know, talking with Ray about teaching, he was always trying to learn new things, always trying to study other drummers. And, you know, that’s why he was the professor was because he was also a student, always. So—

Ray Luzier: That’s one thing. You never stop learning. You know, no matter what you’re doing whatever instrument you’re playing, engineering stuff, whatever it is, you never reach that plateau. I always tell if you did reach that plateau you should probably go do something else. He lost the passion that you lost. That doesn’t mean that like, there’s like years and stuff to go drumming wise and just music wise. Neil being such a composer that he was the lyricist that he was I mean, that’s, he’s that’s light years above so many players out there. But he didn’t look at it that way. He looked at it as I’m going to keep improving. I’m going to keep you know, to me.

Ari Gold: Estimation. Yeah, BTW Shawn Foist says hi to Ray. The messages coming through. Shawn Foist says hi. And then also someone’s asking, what was Neil’s method of tuning in the studio? Oh, Shawn was asking that. Like, yeah, love to hear about the tuning experience of a drum set.

Nick Raskulinecz: His drone his drum tech Gump did all the tunes and he did it all with a mallet. Yeah, like mallets you hit like one of those big drums with and he did all the tuning for everything. It was like a does that they did so they did some weird there’s a little song that he would play that he had notes a note tuner pitch. Like the flower you just did it all by ear.

Ray Luzier: Which is which is wacky because Nick is really good at tuning drums. He’s like, you know he would be playing to take it to go But take five I need to tune your drums and I’m like putting me here too. It’s just years of doing it and he knows what he likes to hear. So for Neil to have his guy was to begin for you. We’re not weird.

Nick Raskulinecz: I mean, it was fine for me because that drum set was really intimidating because oh really dig right. And I mean, I was nervous man around those knew back then and shit. Yeah, for the first time I walked in the studio, I got there before any of that I’m not nervous. First time I ever walked into the studio, and so that drum set, right. I showed up before anybody else and kind of put my shit down and sat down behind the kit and was good. And Gump walked in. He was like, What are you doing? Who are you? I got scolded immediately. So I was nervous.

Ray Luzier: Because I remember the sound city. That was that Remember? Oh.

Ari Gold: Well, I mean that you you earned confidence. I mean, you record rush and then and then, you know, coin comes in and you were able to be totally calm, which obviously then helped you to be actually yourself, which is how you bring out the best person is you make them comfortable?

Nick Raskulinecz: Yeah. I just want guys to play man, I want to, I want them to play the best they can play. And while you’re doing it, sometimes it might feel like the best cake ever, but it might not sound like the best day ever.

Ray Luzier: And that’s the thing about Nick. He knows even as high level as Neil. He knows he still knows even with him, that he could have done something better or we played that way. It sounds not soundcheck rehearsal, we’re pre Pro. And if there’s a certain magic that was there that you’re not quite capturing, when it’s time to cut, and he’ll be actually pulled that out of Neil, in the middle of a tank. And we talked about on our on my video about some of the people that are watching that, but that but you stopped him in the middle of taping and do it again. Yeah, I—

Nick Raskulinecz: Mean, I did that a bunch of times. I mean, the first time we started doing it, you know, immediately recorded the first song I was playing and he played the song a couple times and I had a couple ideas and he was playing it and I just ran out into the room was like Hey, hold on, hold on stop and he’s you know, he’s down in the pocket not even looking at me and I’m like, stop stop and he kind of looks up and slowly kind of stops and feels his headphones off. He’s looking at me like—

Ray Luzier: What why are you in here?

Nick Raskulinecz: You know I wanted my coffee earlier. And I was like, Dude, that thing you know try this try that what if you did you know you know that feel you do then vital signs you know what if you did something like that, but instead of you know go into the crash oh by the hi hat go to the one by the ride and you know, just little things like that. And then I turned around and ran out of the room. And you know, I walked back in and Getty looks is looking at me like what just happened? And I’m like, oh shit, you know—

Ari Gold: He’s like, no one’s ever done that before?

Nick Raskulinecz: Apparently not. I mean, I don’t see how you could make—

Ari Gold: But Neil didn’t blink of it right?

Nick Raskulinecz: I didn’t think twice about it. I mean, whether it’s him or ray or Taylor Hawkins or wrong or you—

Ari Gold: Use it quick track on that record. Oh, sorry, I just lost you guys. On both for the record. Okay. Yeah, and someone’s asking any thoughts are good. So I’m fielding questions here to someone’s asking any thoughts. I’m just I’m reading the questions. It’s okay. You know, the joy, the joy of fielding, you know—

Ray Luzier: Did you sneeze or what happened?

Nick Raskulinecz: We are in Tennessee man.

Ari Gold: God, I don’t know this is this that’s what pop popped into my my feed thanks to my friend, DeDe. So, anyway, we can if you don’t have thoughts, that’s okay. Um, so, uh, what? Okay, let’s so what can I I want to I still want to hear a David Lee Roth story from from Ray. I, we talked a little about this beforehand. I know you’re telling secrets about David Lee Roth for. I don’t know nothing about the guy.

Ray Luzier: I was No, I was 27 It was 97 when I got hired for Dave and and I didn’t even know I got the I’ve told him so many stories that I could write a book just from the stories I tell.

Ari Gold: Tell us one tell us one because like the people you know its David Lee Roth. There’s only one David lee Roth. So—

Ray Luzier: I don’t know how many hours how many hours you got there.

Ari Gold: That dime.

Ray Luzier: No, but I got hired in 97. And when I got hired, I didn’t know I got hired. It was a demo I played on this kid named Mike Hartman his solo record Greg visit, and I shared this drumming duties. And he was kind of this kid. Unfortunately, he passed cystic fibrosis is an amazing was amazing guitar player. Steve Vai gave his number to daily Rob. Long story short, while I’m doing two demos for this kid, and then he goes, Hey, David Lee Roth was a singer over the songs. I’m like, Yeah, sure he does. And sure enough, here I am. And in freakin Ocean Way with David Lee Roth. And my job was just to cut the two tracks again for vocals. There was nothing about a gig there was nothing about so I wasn’t nervous. I was freaked out because I grew up with Van Halen. And I’m Dave walks in. He just had back surgery. She was literally in an L is literally like hunched over and I’m like, wow, you get down there. I did. Nice to meet you. Yeah. But he, you know, he was asking me all these. I wasn’t nervous because I was just doing the songs and he’d come in from the top back or from the inside, you know, room and go. What if I said, swing this and shuffle it and play a field here, do it. I’m like, Man, this guy has a lot of questions, you know, and I’m just doing whatever he said. And the next day Big Ed Anderson, his bodyguard called me up a little Reiki. You passed with flying colors. That’s what he was thinking. I’m like, Yeah, but I just thought he was David Lee Roth. I don’t know. Anyway, I got the gig. That was eight years of my life. Wow. What a tough story to start. Let me give you a quick one. The watch stories the best one so John five and I John Lowry. John five is in Rob Zombie, Marilyn Manson. Everybody knows we were in the band together. There was no bass player. Urban Bob was the fake bass player that Dave made up and he’s in Guild Wars in some of the band pictures with us. So Neil’s Lowe’s the famous photographer, but he knows Neil was taking them you know Dave only takes it when those lows are he’s another Neil’s another was not afraid to update that’s a stupid shirt. You’re gonna wear that dumb thing in the photos and because he’s not you know, they’ve known each other forever. So I’m sitting there and I’m thinking I’m trying to be all cool like posing yes me John fiber like I don’t know what the heck’s going on with David Ross mansion in Pasadena but like I’m kind of freaking out at this piece of crap Casio watch on and I’m like trying to be all cool and posing check me out you know like, Dave Dave’s like leaning against me to go whoa, whoa, look stop we lose here. The hells on your wrist? They go it’s a it’s a it’s a watch sir. It’s a Casio he grabs it grabs a watch and he just flings it all was my across the yard that he goes you might have been rock stars over here which is here and I’m like oh point taken sir I’ll never do that again. Right so you do the shoot I’m kind of freaking out you know I’m gonna lose this gig because of my watch you know so months go by or but with him I’m thinking but he’s really not but think you know the button and he has a watch on and I just went oh it’s on now. There’s no it’d be really cool right now and they go Hey boss, I thought you said a rock stars over watches it didn’t bad I even finished my sentence and he goes not a rock star he’s a legend I love that we just went on and on from there.

Ari Gold: You know, he’s not wrong. No. I got into the question by the way. This is how did army of anyone become a supergroup question mark question mark. Question Mark says he asked a question.

Ray Luzier: For those of you don’t know it’s Robert Dean DeLeo from Stone Temple Pilots in Richard Patrick from filter and myself and Robert put it as we know it supergroup are superduper group. Yeah. Yeah, something like that. But yeah, we it was a very short band. We were the guinea pigs on firm records. And it’s one of my most proud records I’ve ever played on. I love that record because you read this EP and filter go check that record adds some definitely my favorite stuff I’ve ever played on us and right even though you didn’t produce it. Wow, Bob Ezrin the guy named Bob Ezrin.

Ari Gold: I can’t name Bob Ezrin Yeah,

Ray Luzier: It just destroyers were really main reasons. I have played drums to this day, Bob isn’t that but so anyway, you know? Long story short, you know, one record came out we did a short tour, but corn was managed by the same management. So I kept asking him like what’s up with corn? They got Terry bozzio playing, you know record to get Joey doing the tour Joey from slipknot. I got Brooks Wackerman Mike Gordonsville in it. What’s going on with him? Again looking for a permanent drummer. You should try out for him. Oh, but yeah, right, because I like long blonde hair at the time. And it wasn’t you’re not near as cool as I am right now. You’re the—

Ray Luzier: Demise of AOA, it was happening. I flew up to Seattle and Joey’s last gig audition, learned about 3334 songs played six of them. And they said welcome to Cornell see and Dublin now it’s been 14 years crazy. Wow.

Nick Raskulinecz: They still treat you like the new guy.

Ray Luzier: And the new guy. That’s another Neil story. It’s a great thing. Because I’m always been known as the new guy, right? Because the court has been around 26 years. The new guy too. Yeah, totally. Well, Neil, what the only time I ever met Neil was at a la drove off. And they hit him back in the room because he didn’t want to be part of the whole because it was you know, Peter, Chris bozhou. All these legendary drummers there, but Neil had his own little curtained off room in the back. Yeah. Sabian cymbals good friend of ours comes over and he goes, he looks around. He’s like, Hey, man. We’re gonna meet the guy. Well, what’s it a drug deal? What are you looking for? Like it? He’s like, dumbass. Neil, you want to come say hi to Neil. What? In the way, because there’s all these drummers everywhere. And I just flew with with Chris. And that’s my only time ever got to say hi to him. But I said something to the fact were like, Yeah, I’m the I’m the new guy in court. And he goes, Well, I’m the new guy and rush. So and I just wait. That just leveled everything. I go, Oh, thank you, man. Because I’ll never be. You know, I never feel weird about someone say that again. Because he said—

Ari Gold: Yeah. Well, he, he came. I mean, he was able to make people feel comfortable. That’s the thing that was. So he like he with when my movie played at Sundance, it was a total kind of catastrophe. Harvey Weinstein who mattered at the time, walked out about seven minutes into the movie. And so everyone starts like blogging. Oh, this movie’s a failure. Harvey Weinstein walked out. Well, and Neil Pierrot was like, Yeah, you believe when people say good things about you, you believe when people say bad things about you. So don’t listen, anything. And that ability he had to immediately kind of see where someone’s integrity was, and he can feel good. Was was amazing, you know, generosity of spirit. So he said that for you if you’d like, made you feel good. Right away. And then once he made me feel better, that was the magic of the man. I mean, it was that level of kind of like, God’s stature. And be so you know, giving was amazing. I’m hearing another Oh, is it Hey, John. John, can you unmute yourself? Okay, I’m hearing I’m hearing another voice in my head. Really? Sorry, what was that voice?

Ari Gold: Like? Well, let’s I mean, I can’t tell who’s talking right now. I’m sorry. Well, so we got a couple more minutes. Is there anything that you guys would like to share that you’re working on or that you care about in the world that you want to say to, to this mixed audience of air drummers and movie fans and Drum Fans and corn fans and everything? Production fans out there? There’s no—sorry. I’ll ask one other question. Why don’t you have a bunch of questions? Sorry, I can’t. I can’t do them all at once. You guys speak. Care about—

Nick Raskulinecz: It. I love drums.

Ari Gold: What was your first instrument, Nick?

Nick Raskulinecz: Um, I actually played the drums first. And then I played guitar, and then I played bass. So I kind of can get my way around those three instruments, you know, it’s really, those years of playing from like 14 to, you know, up until into my 30s are invaluable, you know, as far as being a producer or being able to talk to drummers with in drum terms and drum noises and sounds and same thing with guitars and bass. Right. Now I get to play enough still to you know, to get my rocks off.

Ray Luzier: And that means a lot, because I’ve worked with producers who are really good, but they don’t know the first thing about the instruments or the anatomy of the music. It’s a weird thing when they try to make a point but don’t know the terminology—they can’t tell you to ‘go to this chord’ or ‘move a half-step down.’ That’s another great thing about Nick. He’ll say simple things like, ‘That crash was kind of weird right there, go to this instead,’ or ‘just stay on the high-hat.’ And I’m like, ‘Wow, are you sure?’ He just says, ‘Trust me.’ Then I listen back and realize it worked so well. He really knows his stuff.

Nick Raskulinecz: I mean, there’s not a lot of producers that will change snare heads in the middle of takes, and tell the drummer not to move. Okay, don’t move. I’m coming in.

Ari Gold: Wow. Wow. He’s like, Oh,

Nick Raskulinecz: dude, this guy’s drum heads. They look like the surface of the moon that by the time you get

Ari Gold: like, within the space of one song. Oh, yeah.

Nick Raskulinecz: So I’ll stop the tape and be like, dude, hold on, I’m coming in. And I’ll grab a snare head on my drum key. No, and I won’t let him get up from the drumset he has to sit there and sweat. We would have a lot of he would have a lot to say. I’d love to hear what he has to say about everything. We had many, many conversations about all this and all that kind of stuff. Yeah.

Ari Gold: Yeah, we we could use that kind of intelligence everywhere. But so we are going to roll in a minute into Adventures of power the air drum comedy, which features I’m in it but also Michael McKean from spinal tap is in it and plays my father, a union organizer and kneel period is in it and there’s a lot of Rush jokes in the movie and but before we do that, I want to just give you guys one last chance to say anything but also to say thank you so much for doing this. Thank you for talking about drums and Neil and music and your own experiences. Anything else you want to say to whoever’s out there and our different streams? Just

Ray Luzier: be good to one another out there to wacky world right now. We got to get through all this crap all together and bring back some live music. That’s for Dang. Sure.

Nick Raskulinecz: Yeah, yeah.

Ari Gold: Yeah. And thank you for for experiencing this live something. This is a live screening and talk and we’re trying to connect with people I live by the beach. So I’m able to see people surfing and all that. But there are people are stuck inside. And people in wintry wintry climates right now suffering and flicking through the news. And it’s nice to to connect with other artists who are creating and making the world a better place. So thank you guys so much. We are going to stay on an unwanted versus a power which the stream will start and anyone in various streams who asked questions, we’ll do our best to answer through chat. And someone saying Keep it going. Keep going. Keep going Keep going. I mean, we can keep talking. We can keep talking, you guys. You guys have a few more minutes. We’re getting requests.

Ray Luzier: Already way so we’re good. Why are we

Ari Gold: keep talking while there’s like six messages saying Keep talking. Okay, so keep talking. You guys want to talk some more? The movie by the way. So anyone you know, the excuse that we got together was the movie if if people watch this talk and they can’t watch the movie, it’s it’s free on Amazon Prime it’s called Adventures of power or you can go to aerodrom.com in the future and watch it and the any money that comes to the movie supports music airs, which is particularly helpful right now because gig money for auditions has dried up and particularly for working musicians who aren’t major rock stars, its music cares has really been helping people get through this crisis. So you know, watch the movie and you’re helping out and please donate music care as well if you have some spare change, or spare a couple $1,000 Please donate Okay, so that that’s that but So someone says keep talking but like let’s see, keep Hey, keep talking person. What do you want us to talk about?

Ray Luzier: There’s other there’s other

Ari Gold: more deeply Rob stories, which I would always accept there’s I wouldn’t one more David Lee Ross story right now from Mr. Lucier.

Ray Luzier: Oh, well, just you the G rated ones

Ari Gold: No, no no you can go up to are just not x bar includes a lot of

Ray Luzier: exes either. Dragging Oh, the Starbucks was pretty good too. Because in the studio, and he goes, You know what, you know, when I got the gig I called Gregg Bissonette because I was kind of freaking out. Greg got the gig for you. No, of course, is only in a small skyscraper in Lewin enough. Three amazing records and but great Greg through the years of the name shows and p it several places. So when I got the gig, I called Greg up frantically. I just got this gig and it was this big pause that he did. And I was like, yeah, it goes, Man, that’s awesome. Because I put your name and a half years ago, and it says, What do I do? And he’s like, you know, Dave’s a guy that just, you know, he’s, he’s one of those guys where, you know, he’s got this well, he’s this just, if you couldn’t say anything, it was just as like, there was over and over, just nothing came out. He goes, it’s just don’t drag, no drag, and you’re just when you’re playing, you know, he likes people on top of the beat. I’m like, Well, I always play on top of the beat. So he’s gonna love me. And so that was it. There’s no like, good, you just got to, you’ll see. It’s just one of those things. And then sorry, in the studio, and I’m playing in the DLR band record the first record ever made with him. You know, I had my little RFI those will roll in numbers oval and drum machines really big ones. Yeah. And he had a quick track I was so used to that thing. So I had it you know that thing? It was the songs in the 1960s Give me 105 Whatever all the BPM for program that the day blocks in the studio? What’s that loser here? When I go that’s a drum machine sir he does he looks at me he got to court against the wall. I go because we’ll be using the clip track on this record is old schools rock and roll you got to feel son you get the heart you get soul is kept going on and on. So I’m like, Yeah, okay, great. So enter like now I have no conception of time. I’m relying on me, which is pretty scary in the studio, as everybody that’s ever been record knows that the bongo player provides the time they’re waiting for the drummer to play the drums. Right? Something? Yeah, yeah, time is,

Nick Raskulinecz: as we all know, there’s like, four distinct eras of rush. Yeah. Overall, if I had to pick one record, man, it might be fly by night. Really? It could. It could be fly by night.

Ray Luzier: I know. It is a great one. That’s so what am I like to pick?

Nick Raskulinecz: I mean, I love every song. The energy on the album is over the top. The guitars awesome. I mean, I love that album. Well, probably fly by night.

Ray Luzier: I think mine’s gonna be moving pictures.

Ari Gold: Yeah, moving pictures for me too.

Ray Luzier: I just did well, that’s what’s the first time I really discovered them. You know, hurt. Man. I heard a couple over what the bit. That’s the first record, God bought the vinyl of what moving pictures and I remember like, back then you can stack records. Remember what we did? Right? That’d be just playing drums to every record that I had. And I remember like back and Black was on you know, every song moving pictures were Come on. Like, I can’t keep up with you know, so I just knew there was something you know, at a very young age. And I think that’s that’s the one sticks out for me, you know, but to be honest, I’m not saying it because this guy sitting right here but Clockwork Angels is probably my top three rock albums ever out of all I love that. It’s one of my I mean that record moves me emotionally the Sonics of the record the way it’s just everything about it about that on vinyl and just like correct that things still

Nick Raskulinecz: there’s a lot there’s a lot going on

Ari Gold: so much emotion there and like kind of a global consciousness about by the way in them sorry this is I’m distracted by question. Ray Have you ever played corn song My gift to you

Nick Raskulinecz: give to you we did do that. Really high scores got

Ray Luzier: it? Yeah, yeah, we did that on the fall of the leader. And when we did the fall Yes, we did do that song. We only did three times though. Three shows. We were where they were. Yes. Vegas. System en la Okay, somebody Jack? Jack Yeah, I love I love the whole corn catalog. It’s like of course you know corn has so many hits that we have to play the number ones and we have to play me one freak on a leash was retired that was the only song that was ever retired off the TRL back when MTV actually played music permanent V and they you know it’s because its fan base so the fans would vote in so frequently there’s a band that when when when the finally the guy had a call and go dude, you got to retire we give someone else a chance. Remember that? Yeah, so like, if somebody hits that you have to play those but I love the deep cuts. I love the old school core. I love like, I love deep cuts that we’ve done, you know songs that like He wouldn’t normally you know, play loud me John talk about all the time like, you should throw this in and we just never do. You know, it’s one of those someday we’re gonna come out and do like all just rare cars and just I don’t know, for the diehards, you

Ari Gold: know the longest reinvent the mall. Well, yeah, totally.

Ray Luzier: I mean, because we we did that like dubstep record as well. You know, it was like, there was a teenager showing up with glowsticks. Oh my god. Skrillex Oh, like, you know, they were playing free got Alicia blinder, like what’s this song? I don’t know. You can tell that they only had the dubstep record weird so that’s what’s cool about chord is not afraid to take a left turn every once in a while and shake it up a little bit now mystically.

Ari Gold: So what are you read you live in and Tennessee or

Ray Luzier: I live here at Rock Falcon I have a book underneath the drum case over there it’s really cheap rent like 50 bucks a month. I do I live in Franklin Tennessee, which is about 25 minutes from here 20 minutes south

Ari Gold: Yeah man. But

Ray Luzier: But today La are big fun. moved to the concrete jungle for 26 years so feels good to just stretch out and you know be down here could focus on your great way to read thing for your kids. Schools are amazing. Great people live there. People like Nick keeping rock alive.

Ari Gold: Once the next corner album coming out

Ray Luzier: tomorrow. I don’t know. I’m not sure no one really knows what was in the shop kid. Yeah, I don’t know. We’re always working on music and stuff. So you never know.

Ari Gold: But just just make any writing credits on a corn records

Ray Luzier: yeah yeah. We wrote a bunch of songs like rock Yeah. Next grade to about like he’ll do like, remember to we worked on four weeks ago? Like no. Yeah, remember this part went like this. I think that would go good in this song. And you’re like, what? I wasn’t even fast. How did you even think about that? And it’ll work you’re gonna like dang it. That was awesome. The next thing you know support that or hope a weak part of the songs really good cannon where we think it’s like, who has just kick ass he’s like, Yeah, but think of this and the way it flows or the course or whatever.

Nick Raskulinecz: There was many good jam sessions.

Ray Luzier: Nixa where it was new enough

Ari Gold: of hardrock

Nick Raskulinecz: this guy’s really fun to jam with a twirl.

Ari Gold: Oh, yeah. Before we started you want to show you want to show people your see how is how zoom handles the flickering of your drumsticks? With just the you know because we’re with flashing lights and are

Ray Luzier: they flash?

Ari Gold: No, but it just looks

Ray Luzier: like Oh, I see what you’re talking about. So you go between the middle finger and you go between the pinky finger so you wouldn’t ever do those ones. You got the thumb? You got the all the fingers at that one. Let me see that.

Ari Gold: Thank you. You think a jam is possible right now. A jam. Modern Drummer people are like can’t is it possible we could do a jam? Riffraff What do you think? Riffraff terrified Can you is it you? What do you think? Do you guys are you guys in the mood to like make some noise? No, no this is not a pressure thing. You don’t have to listen to the likes, but you are in the studio. And if by the way you know I’m supposed to be Hawking my movie Adventures of power which we’re postponing anyone who wants to watch the movie you can watch anytime at airdrome or calm or on Amazon and the money supports Medicare let’s if you guys are in the mood to jam

Nick Raskulinecz: you can jam I’ll tell you what’s good or not.

Ari Gold: Once you pick up a bass Nick and like give him some bottom

Ray Luzier: he thought about an eighth of a second here we’re gonna sign off with this with this 32nd solo ready

Ari Gold: Can you turn the laptop around? We get this thing on here which is perfect. Yeah, dude that sounds great ready

Ari Gold: can You hear anything?

Ray Luzier: The winner, the winner will produce your next record.

Ari Gold: I think Zoom is I think Zoom is muting like as you played it gets completely squashed but like

Ari Gold: by the way

Ari Gold: ra DS from suicidal tendencies wants to jam with us. He’s just he’s like on the line right now. He’s like trying to figure out if you can join in, but we have the technology for that, but Riff Raff is going to be the master of all things.

Ray Luzier: He’s asked, and I love that bass player man. I’ll gym with him anytime suicidal.

Ari Gold: Yeah, yeah. And we had a, we had a raw with Alex Skolnick. And Charlie Benante. Last week, and they’ve been they’ve done these incredible trio rush cover things together. Which, which, you know, sets the bar pretty high. So good. Yeah, but anyway, fences. Love. He’s, he’s on the other end of it. He’s watching watching. Yeah. Who’s what’s respect? Yeah. So maybe we’ll sign off. We did our best to do a jam that the audio wasn’t set up for it. But you know, you guys heard some some blasting noise, some very compressed zoom style drums.

Ray Luzier: If you really you would have heard what I did with a booger mind.

Nick Raskulinecz: I was actually playing bass just then. But it was so loud and compressed. You couldn’t even hear it. Yeah,

Ari Gold: you can hear it in China though. Hey, make sure to check

Ray Luzier: this movie. This is an awesome movie. And he is just so I love the uniqueness of this. blitz it just everyone stay on and check this movie out.

Ari Gold: Thank you. Yeah, it’s called. It’s called Adventures of power. If you can’t stay on, watch it on Amazon Prime later. And thank you guys so much for joining us. And for those of you who have watched Thank you for keeping rock alive. I know you guys all want to see shows as soon as possible. But thank you for doing this while we wait and enjoy the show. Thank you.

Nick Raskulinecz: Awesome, guys. Thanks, Lisa.

Ari Gold: Thank you so much for listening to hot sticks drum show. Please stream the movie Adventures of power at Air drummer calm and support the Grammy music Harris Foundation. And don’t forget to subscribe at HUD sticks.fm. And of course, feel free to ask me any questions or make drummer requests at Ari Gold on social media and keep marching to the beat of your own drum. Even if you don’t have one. We everyone.

This interview originally appeared on Hotsticks.fm.

See more about Ray Luzier & Nick Rasculinecz on the official site for Adventures of Power, the world’s greatest (and only) Air Drum Movie!

Enjoyed this session? Explore more from the Interviews Archive.

This wasn’t an interview about flash or virtuosity for its own sake. It was about comfort, communication, and sound as a physical object—something you shape, dampen, and refine until only what matters remains. In a genre often defined by excess, Vlad’s approach feels almost architectural. Every drum has a purpose. Every overtone is negotiated.

As I continue building spaces for artists to speak outside of press cycles, conversations like this remind me why drummers matter—not just as timekeepers, but as listeners. Vlad listens deeply: to his band, to the room, and to silence itself.”

The Drum Kit as a Shared Space

The conversation opens with Vlad Ulasevych breaking down his drum setup—not as a display of excess, but as a tool for comfort and communication. By arranging his kit in an open, semi-circular layout, Vlad prioritizes eye contact with his bandmates, reinforcing groove through constant visual connection. It’s a subtle reminder that even in extreme metal, feel begins with human awareness.

Killing the Overtones

Vlad dives into the philosophy behind his unmistakably dry drum sound. Tuning his snares high, heavily dampening them with a handmade sand-filled practice pad, and using hydraulic heads on both sides of his toms, he strips away resonance until only attack remains. The result is a precise, controlled tone that gives his ghost notes and backbeats their signature snap—proof that heaviness doesn’t require excess.

Consistency, Trust, and the Long Game

Beyond gear, Vlad emphasizes the importance of continuity. Jinjer has worked with the same live sound engineer and studio producer across every release, shaping a sonic identity recorded entirely in Kyiv. Touching briefly on revisiting piano during lockdown, Vlad reflects on restraint, discipline, and knowing when to step away. In his world, evolution isn’t about adding more—it’s about refining what already works.

Watch video version here:

RAW TRANSCRIPT (Pardon the old-school glitches):

Vlad Ulasevych: I take care of a lot. But I have a lot of drums. I have a really a lot of drums. How many? How many? Kick drum kick drum three toms 1216 18 Two snares. 10 and 13. And a lot of symbols 4 crashes. A Ride three high hats. Yeah.

Ari Gold: whole flat. It’s like a you know, it’s like you’re serving up a feast? Yeah, the apples. There’s the you know? Yeah. There’s the pasta, you know, table. There’s, there’s something inviting about and I can imagine in the band, it’s easier to make eye contact. The other bandmates? Because you know, drummers who have have their drums all around them, there’s going to be moments when the bassist or whatever is here and they’re they’re blocked. But um keep an eye eye contact with you. Yeah, all the time.

Vlad Ulasevych: And that’s yeah, for me for me is important too. But I play like this just because of my comfort.

Ari Gold: Well, probably good for your your posture too because you’re just you know, like you’re cooking but, but I think a nice side effect because the band has a really you know, for something that’s classified as metal there’s a real groove you know, there’s an actual kind of like you know, funk is not the right word but there’s there’s a there’s a groovinous to the feel that in my mind and maybe I’m imagining it but maybe has to do with the fact that you guys can communicate really well and maybe your ability to see each other all time all the time. Who knows theory but but you also you know, your snare is or your main snare you know, you tune it in a really unique high talk about that because I think one of the things that that gives gives your ghost notes and gives you back beats such a cool groove is is the way you tune your snare.

Vlad Ulasevych: Yeah, I don’t I don’t have very high and I have thick drum pad it’s a Evans heavyweight it’s still sick flies with dot and I tune it very high, and I damped it. ABS it’s absolutely damped like and it’s it. Now now our tones and in my snare. And in terms to all my all my old My drums It sounds very dry.

Ari Gold: Yeah. But what do you what was the drum but what what do you use to damp the snare?

Vlad Ulasevych: It’s a one my friend in Ukraine he makes sand practice pad with sand inside.

Vlad Ulasevych: And it was like regular circle practice pad and I start to use it like a damper on my snare. And

Ari Gold: you put on this snare.

Vlad Ulasevych: Yeah, I just put it on a snare and it’s absolutely damped. Every overtones. Right? And after it. I use a 13 snare. And this damper was huge. And sometimes I hit my drum stick on this pad not on the center of the drum kit. Yeah. And and we make a new one and it’s like this

Ari Gold: see all the overtones right? Yeah,

Vlad Ulasevych: yeah. I and I use it now as damper. And it works wherever you go. And

Ari Gold: you have that snares.

Vlad Ulasevych: Not only on my main snare. Yeah, yeah. And on the toms. I use Evans hydraulic. It’s with oil between the blinds. And I use it on the top and on the bottom too. And my toms have no overtones to its only attack. And that’s it. I don’t know. I like the sound my sound engineer like the sound and my musicians live

Ari Gold: at the time that you’ve been in. Sorry, sorry. Have you worked with the same engineer? The whole time? In the band? Yeah,

Vlad Ulasevych: yeah. Yeah. It’s our friend. Sasha his name. And yeah, everything. What? All our live sound? It’s him. And yeah, every every time we upgrade something like trying new microphones, new drum heads. New sound thing and yeah, the way always sound like we sound now. It’s Sasha’s I don’t know how it called.

Vlad Ulasevych: work about it with me.

Ari Gold: Yeah, yeah. Well, it’s nice. It’s nice to give credit to the people you know, the people who helped create your your sound so

Vlad Ulasevych: yeah, sure. It’s actually our our album sounds. We work with one guy the whole time. Like, on every on every jinjer albums. It’s one sound engineer. Mark Smortan thats his name. So yeah. Where are we recorded? In Kyiv? Yeah, everything. Everything where I play starts from EP Micro. We record were recorded in Kyiv.

Ari Gold: Okay. Okay. Cool. So you’re going on tour soon, right?

Vlad Ulasevych: Yeah, we’re Yeah, in Latin America.

Ari Gold: When does that start?

Vlad Ulasevych: In one and a half week in two weeks.

Ari Gold: Okay. Are you go all through South America and Central America or?

Vlad Ulasevych: Yeah, we start in Costa Rica. And then Mexico. I don’t remember. It’s like seven shows, I think in Latin America, and in November, December, we will play

Ari Gold: states. Yeah, you’ll be you’ll be near me. already. You can see but there’s the book. There’s a palm tree for the podcast. Ah, no one will see it but it’s perfect. A perfect palm tree. It’s getting bleached, but the ocean I think you’re coming to California at the end of October, maybe something like that,

Vlad Ulasevych: where we would have, I think the last show of the tour in Los Angeles. It’s, it’s in December.

Ari Gold: Okay. Well, I hope to see you there. So, well is there is there anything that you have not talked about in any interview ever?

Vlad Ulasevych: Do No. No, like I in our band, me and Roman, our guitarists our English sucks as you can. As you can see, so, so all interview did Eugene, our bass player or Tatiana?

Ari Gold: Yeah, they,

Vlad Ulasevych: they actually English teachers. Yeah. So okay. They have no problem with this and I your English Yeah, me and me and Roman. Me and Roman and, like, don’t make interviews. Like with you it’s actually the first the first live speaking in in my life.

Ari Gold: Okay, well, I everyone put a lot of loves. Put a lot of love because I want him to know that he’s great in English. And, you know, the, there’s actually something I like about talking with people who are not fluent in English, because I think you’re very careful with your words. And so there’s an elegance, actually. Okay, that’s, that’s quite lovely. So, I hope you continue this drummers need to speak, you know. But, you know, you have this training as a as a musician, and obviously, you know, those who are fans of yours know that you, you know, can play. Can you play and speaking of piano, my fantasy piano, I don’t play the I mean, I played really bad improvised junk. And you play

Vlad Ulasevych: I, I can play piano, but my girlfriend, she have electro piano. I start I stopped play piano. Like, at the last day I was in music college.

Ari Gold: And you You never know. Yeah, I think.

Vlad Ulasevych: Yeah. And this this video, this video when I played Rachmaninoff. I start I start playing like and one week. I just remember how to play the piano. I made this video. And after it, I stopped playing again. So

Ari Gold: how did it feel then if you to reconnect with your childhood instrument?

Vlad Ulasevych: It’s terrible. Really. It’s very, it’s very hard. It’s very hard to play piano. I know that how it must be. And when you start playing, you understand that you can’t play anything like it’s it’s very hard for me for me. Yeah, so you know that that time it was I think COVID times when everybody’s sitting home and i not i can’t often go to my drum kit so I think it’s a good idea to remember how how to play the piano and yeah, I did something

Ari Gold: Yeah. Wrote no piano piece on it any jinjer album. Does me maybe you know the next one. Maybe it’s time to you. I want the the the little boy little boy Vlad to meet the man Vlad and bring those

Vlad Ulasevych: actually, actually, we have a lot of new songs for the new album already. And there is no space for piano man for sure. It will be very very heavy.

Ari Gold: maybe a little bro. So you know, Harding? And

Vlad Ulasevych: maybe, maybe Eugene, maybe Eugene will try to play some

Ari Gold: Well, anyway, I would love to hear some piano somewhere in one of your next two records. And I think there are some people in the chat will also hear that.

Vlad Ulasevych: So maybe maybe once. Think about it. Yeah.

Ari Gold: So I look forward to seeing you on tour. And if you’re bored some time, please check out my movie Adventures of power, which is all about him. Oh, I need to I need to ask you the one question I have to ask everybody. Yeah, yeah. Were you ever an air drummer?

Vlad Ulasevych: No. Like, when I when I listened? My favorite band who play on the stage? I can play the drum parts of it. Yeah.

Ari Gold: Okay, so my movie of power is all about air drummers. That’s the movie with Neil period in it. So if you can’t I don’t know if it’s available. Actually, I think I have Ukrainian subtitles. Well, anyway, if you can’t see it, let me know. And I’ll send you a link. Okay. Those of you who can’t, it’s on Amazon and a lot of countries adventures with power. Bi but I think you will enjoy it. So I can send it to you. And anyone who pays to see it, the money goes to support MusiCares which the organization that helps musicians in need. So anyway, there’s that. But it’s been really great talking with you. I I look forward to seeing you on tour in for in Ukraine. I’m Yeah, first. I’ll see you there. And if you’re in California, for instance, you’ll see me here. Okay. Okay. So, have a beautiful evening, and I and I very nice to meet you.

Vlad Ulasevych: Very nice to meet you too, man. Thank you for the speaking it. It was a big pleasure for me.

Ari Gold: Yes. And you can tell the rest of your band that you can now be their spokesman because you’re good at this.

Vlad Ulasevych: Okay. Okay, thank you very much.

This interview originally appeared on Hotsticks.fm.

See more about Vlad Ulasevych on the official site for Adventures of Power, the world’s greatest (and only) Air Drum Movie!

Enjoyed this session? Explore more from the Interviews Archive.

Matt doesn’t separate drumming from living. Farming, posture, faith, patience, work without reward — it’s all the same muscle. What struck me most wasn’t just his power behind the kit, but his commitment to balance: physical balance, emotional balance, and moral balance.

We talked about Neil Peart, air drumming, and the long road from a Pennsylvania farm to stages across six continents. But underneath it all was something quieter — a belief that meaning matters more than image, and that intensity without intention is empty. That’s a lesson every musician, in any genre, can carry with them.”

From the Farm to the Kit

Matt Greiner traces his roots growing up on a Pennsylvania farm, learning discipline, hard work, and purpose long before music entered his life. That foundation shaped his approach to drumming as something earned slowly, without immediate reward.

Balance, Posture, and Playing With Intention

The conversation explores Matt’s distinctive upright posture and focus on balance behind the kit — physically and mentally. For Matt, drumming isn’t just power and speed; it’s about control, longevity, and feeling grounded while playing aggressive music.

Neil Peart, Purpose, and the Long Game

Matt reflects on Neil Peart’s influence, the humility of always being a student, and the importance of staying focused on growth rather than hype. The episode closes on legacy, patience, and why meaning — not recognition — is what sustains a life in music.

Watch video version here:

RAW TRANSCRIPT (Pardon the old-school glitches):

Ari Gold: Greetings, welcome to Hot Sticks Drum Show… And I’m very happy to have you on here because your drumming is—and your band is—a very interesting mix for me of this incredibly aggressive, powerful, like Meshuggah-like energy. And at the same time, lyrically and spiritually, I would say you’re bringing a totally different energy to the genre, or the genres, depending how you want to define them. So I would just love to talk with you about how—what interests me, you know, having made Adventures of Power, which is a comedy that also has a spiritual message—it’s interesting to talk to a musician who also has a genre that doesn’t necessarily mix in an obvious way with messages. But obviously your audience gets it. Your audience is moved by things that people who weren’t in the genre might be like, “Oh, there’s more than screaming going on,” you know. So how did that come about? Do you want to talk a little bit about your development as an artist and your development within the band as well?

Matt Greiner: Yeah. Well, thanks for having me on, first and foremost. My name is Matt. I play drums for August Burns Red, for those that don’t know. Our band is not really on the radio, so we have this underground market or fan base that is just in love with the style of music, and they don’t need it to be popular or mainstream to like it. I think that’s actually part of the appeal. It’s like, “This is mine.” Yeah. “Oh, you don’t know about them?” That makes it a cooler experience—better. So I grew up in a home with seven siblings. I grew up on a farm. I wasn’t aware of this kind of music when I was a kid. I remember going to a Christian festival called Creation, which is in Pennsylvania, and I heard Project 86, Zao, Beanbag, and Newsboys. All of that stood out to me. And I went home and I was like, “I don’t know how to play drums, but I want to play drums, and I want to play in a band like that—heavy.”

Ari Gold: How old were you when you first heard—would you consider those bands metalcore?

Matt Greiner: No, it pretty much was just the heaviest style of music I knew of up until that point. It was just mainstream CCM—Christian contemporary music. There were two stations I was allowed to listen to as a kid. And whenever I had the chance, I would listen to other stuff, and then I would go back to those first two presets so my parents didn’t know I was listening to other styles, right? So bringing home these CDs—this is early 2000s—was shocking to my parents. And they were like, “We want to read the lyrics.” And so I showed them the lyrics to Project 86. It was an album called Drawing Black Lines. And I remember thinking, “Oh boy, this isn’t good,” because these lyrics are pretty dark. But they were incredible. And having an understanding about something that was so outside the parameters of what they thought their kids would grow up to like and be—I really appreciate that about them. I think about one day if I have kids, what it’s going to be like for me to hear or see or acknowledge a hobby or a passion in my kid’s life that I just don’t understand.

Ari Gold: Yeah. It’s almost a prerequisite. There’s no way a parent is going to understand everything their kid loves. It’s like what you said about a fan discovering your band and feeling like it’s theirs. Right? A kid—especially a teenager—is going to want their music to not be obviously understandable by their parents. That’s part of the generational thing that’s always happened. You can pretty much count on your kids bringing something home that you might be like, “What is this?”

Matt Greiner: Thanks for the warning. That seems pretty right on. So to that point, I started playing drums, which was also something brand new for my family. And my dad knew a little bit about my love for things that didn’t last. I started skateboarding—that lasted a couple of years. Did BMX—that lasted even shorter. Motocross was the shortest of all. I was taking piano lessons, and—

Ari Gold: He thought you were a dilettante. Jumping from thing to thing. Actually, you were a spiritual person saying we have to love things that don’t last because that’s the nature of being alive.

Matt Greiner: That’s exactly right. I was just a kid trying to figure it out. And then I found drumming—and it stuck. But my dad was like, “Okay, first of all, let’s just get you a snare drum. Not a drum set. We’re not going headfirst into this. We’ll see if it lasts for a year.” Which was wise. Because if you like drumming after playing just a snare drum for a year, then you’re real. You’re the real deal.

Ari Gold: And paradiddling for hours on end. I hope you had a nice stack of towels on there so you didn’t drive your seven siblings crazy.

Matt Greiner: No, I didn’t.

Ari Gold: Farm. I know that. By the way, when your band started, most rock bands do it for the chicks—but in your case, it was chickens, right?

Matt Greiner: I never thought about it that way. We actually started playing in an egg room.

Ari Gold: That is perfectly on point. You can use that pun on the road. “We do it for the chicks.” That’s incredible.

Matt Greiner: Our publishing company is still called Grown & Publishing.

Ari Gold: That makes sense.

Matt Greiner: So do you think your music had an influence on the chickens?

Matt Greiner: I think it traumatized them to the point of no return. There were a lot of dead chickens in that chicken house.

Ari Gold: Oh yeah?

Matt Greiner: That was my job to clean them up. I didn’t eat chicken for a good ten years after we stopped raising broilers. So it was always this dichotomy of farming and drumming. I hated farming as a kid because it took me away from the things I liked. And now I love farming because it gives me a perspective the music industry just can’t. They fuel each other now.

Ari Gold: What do you grow on the farm?

Matt Greiner: Corn, soybeans, wheat, and hay. All for livestock consumption. Cash crops—we sell them to local mills, and they sell to dairy farmers and pig farmers.

Ari Gold: We’re going to end up talking about farming this whole time, because I can see where this is going. Yeah. I mean, one thing I’ve noticed about your drumming—maybe it comes from, I’m going to try to bring it back to farming somehow—but for such a hardcore drummer, your posture is incredible. And I wonder, you know, you come from a family that’s farming, you can’t be stooped over. And, you know, going back generations, I’m sure you have machines, but like going back generations, you know, someone stooped over and by the time they’re 32 they can’t plant anymore. That’s your pocket, you know. There are a lot of hardcore drummers who mess up their backs, their discs, their lower backs by being in this hunched-over position. I mean, you look at someone like John Bonham—he didn’t live long enough for us to know what would’ve happened to his skeletal system—but he had that cool hunched-over thing. And you’re sitting straight up in the chair, like the teacher just said, “Excuse me, Matt Greiner,” and you’re sitting straight up, militant. “Get that back straight.” Did you learn that from a teacher? Did you learn good form? Or were you self-taught?

Matt Greiner: I was self-taught—but I did learn that from a teacher. So both things are true at the same time. My mom was my teacher. I was actually homeschooled from first grade on, and we had these benches in our kitchen. So when we sit down to eat, your natural inclination is to sort of do this—like, you can’t really see me, but I’m just stooped over—because there’s no back. It’s just a bench. And my mom would say, “Sit up straight.” So as soon as my butt hits a seat—minus what I’m doing right now, just because I’m close to my screen—my instinct is to be like, “Okay, yeah.” And I really do attribute it to that. I was actually talking last night—we’re on tour right now—and I was talking to another band guy in We Came as Romans, and he was like, “I’m just so impressed by your posture.” I get as many compliments about that as I do about my creativity and stuff. And I think it’s because it stands in the face of how things generally are. But for me, it’s how I feel comfortable and balanced. And balance is such a huge part of drumming. If I’m not balanced, I feel like crap. I can be playing the parts okay, but the drum set feels foreign.

Ari Gold: Yeah. I mean, as you may know, I’m an air drummer. I’m in the Guinness Book for air drumming—which is true. People think I’m kidding. I’m like, “No, no, this is true. I’m in the Guinness Book for air drumming.” And when you don’t have a kit, and you don’t have a stool, and you’re just by yourself on the stage, balance is everything.

Matt Greiner: I totally agree.

Ari Gold: Tell me about this record that you hold. I honestly don’t know that much about it.

Ari Gold: Well, I made a movie called Adventures of Power, which is a comedy about air drumming, and Neil Peart from Rush was in it. It’s a comedy, and it’s spiritual, and it’s a political story metaphor, as you know. I’ve got Nick Kroll, Michael McKean from Spinal Tap, Jane Lynch—it’s incredible. Anyway, it’s a great movie. Check it out. It’s on Amazon. It’s free on Amazon. It’s called Adventures of Power. You can go to airdrummer.com to see videos from it. So when I was promoting the movie, Neil Peart came back to me and we did some videos that ended up kind of launching this podcast spiritually, essentially. Because I did an interview with him and I realized, “Oh, I love talking to drummers about drumming and what motivates them—and also air drumming.” It’s a joke. I always like to hear who people first air drum to. So I’ll ask you that later. But the movie started spreading. It’s an independent movie—like your band. It wasn’t on TV. It wasn’t in theaters other than festivals. But people started hearing about it. One of the groups that heard about it was a casino in San Bernardino, California, that was trying to get a Guinness record for air drumming. And one of the things Guinness needed to make the category valid was a quote-unquote “air drum expert.” Because I had made a movie about air drumming, acted in it myself, and had been a judge at the World Air Guitar Championships in Finland, I was officially classified as an air drum expert. So I conducted 2,500 people air drumming. I had to invent a set of moves that would classify as special moves for Guinness. And there was a guy in a funny suit watching the conduct. And then they awarded “Largest Ever Air Drum Ensemble Conducted by Ari Gold.”

Matt Greiner: Oh my God. My life. That’s incredible. What an accolade.

Ari Gold: Yeah. It’s a weird one. But no one has toppled me yet. Anyone listening is welcome to try. So air drumming does have a spiritual significance for me. You have to be balanced. You have to find the heartbeat in yourself. You’re making something out of nothing. It’s a joke—it is silly on one level—but the best jokes have a profound truth underneath them. And I devoted three years to making this crazy movie about it.

Matt Greiner: It sounds like you interviewed some insightful people.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Starting with Neil. We talked about how drumming improves kids’ brains. Drumming and rhythm-focused music can help repair neural pathways after brain injury. Which brings me back to something I wanted to ask you—when you said you didn’t have a teacher, but your mom set you straight—was your mom your drum teacher?

Matt Greiner: No, my mom wasn’t my drum teacher. But my parents played the biggest role in guiding me. My dad worked 80 hours a week on the farm. Any free time I had, I was working with him. I learned how to work hard knowing there probably wasn’t anything coming back to me. No pay. No vacation. The reward was purpose. Identity. Contribution. That mentality transferred directly to drumming. You practice for three hours, walk away soaked in sweat, frustrated, not knowing if you got better or worse. So learning that it’s not about immediate reward—it’s an investment—that everything matters, that carried me through 20 years of playing drums. Now it’s two-time Grammy nominations, 2,000 shows, six continents, same core band members. We treat our crew like family. Tonight we’re taking them to a baseball game. Every aspect matters.

Ari Gold: What was it like playing in Dubai?

Matt Greiner: Honestly, I skied inside a mall. The show itself was forgettable. But knowing the band you started on a farm played Dubai—that’s amazing. It’s incredible to know that the band you started on your farm is playing in a place like Dubai.

Ari Gold: Yeah. I mean, you’ve played six continents. That means you have not done Antarctica yet, right?

Matt Greiner: Correct.

Ari Gold: I haven’t been there either. My grandfather went to Antarctica. He was very fond of penguins.

Matt Greiner: That’s really cool. Your grandpa went to Antarctica? Wow. Well, you kind of have to go now.

Ari Gold: I know. I want to go. We’ll do a co-gig. I can air drum along to your stuff—with good posture.

Matt Greiner: Yeah, yeah.

Ari Gold: You’d be joining an illustrious company. The only drummer I’ve ever done live air drumming next to was Neil Peart. And if we did it in Antarctica, that would be next level.

Matt Greiner: You must have been more devastated than most when Neil passed.

Ari Gold: Yeah. I mean, meeting one of your heroes and discovering how intelligent, gentle, thoughtful, and generous he was—it really threw me when he died. I didn’t know him deeply. We hung out a few times. We stayed in touch. But when my movie premiered at Sundance and got a bad reception, it felt like my career ended in ten minutes. Harvey Weinstein walked out. People were saying it was over. Neil came back to me after that and said, “If you believe what they say about you negatively, you’ll believe what they say positively—and that’s not good either.” Then he did videos with me. A drum-off. Interviews. He helped me when I was on the ropes. That’s something I’ll never forget.

Matt Greiner: Wow. He had nothing to gain by doing that.

Ari Gold: Nothing. Only something to lose, maybe.

Matt Greiner: That says everything about his character.

Ari Gold: He always considered himself a student. He’d travel to Africa to study drumming. The best teachers know they don’t know everything.

Matt Greiner: I was just telling a fan last night—he said, “You’re the god of metal drumming.” And I said, “I have a lot to learn. I’m not that good. I want to get better.”

Ari Gold: What do you want to improve?

Matt Greiner: My foot control. It’s good, but it can be better. I stay within boundaries I know I can perform well in. I’m scared to go past them because it shows who I really am.

Ari Gold: Who inspired you growing up?

Matt Greiner: Mike Portnoy. His fills were catchy. Tomas Haake. Aaron Spears. He’s a role model—not for chops, but humility. Always clapping loudest for others. Same with Ash Soan. We did a Zildjian Live project together. Incredible human.

Ari Gold: How connected are you to Zildjian as a brand?

Matt Greiner: It’s a sound thing. Zildjian A Customs are my favorite crashes. Master Sound hats are my favorite hats. Even just a few pieces can sell me on a brand. Same with Evans EMAD kick heads. Best kick head in the world, in my opinion.

Ari Gold: I need to sign off soon, but I just want to say—I’m intrigued by you. You tell stories through drumming. You communicate grief, surrender, power. Through time signatures. Through posture. Through farming. It’s pretty amazing.

Matt Greiner: I really appreciate that. It’s been great talking with you. And hearing about Neil from someone who knew him—that meant a lot.

Ari Gold: If you go to airdrummer.com, there’s a Rush page and a Neil Peart page. You’ll see some videos we did together. Me air drumming with no beard and a headband.

Matt Greiner: Sounds good. Thanks for having me, man.

Ari Gold: Enjoy the tour. Maybe I’ll see you backstage somewhere.

Matt Greiner: That would be awesome. Antarctica tickets.

Ari Gold: Antarctica. Alright—keep good posture.

This interview originally appeared on Hotsticks.fm.

See more about Matt Greiner on the official site for Adventures of Power, the world’s greatest (and only) Air Drum Movie!

Enjoyed this session? Explore more from the Interviews Archive.

We talked about Ghost, of course—the mystery, the studio process, and why he’s said “no” to touring more than once. But what really stuck with me was his philosophy: he doesn’t practice the way most drummers mean it. He practices by thinking—by listening, by imagining grooves, by chasing textures and atmospheres. It’s a reminder that musicianship isn’t always a gym. Sometimes it’s a compass.

Also: Swedish lakes, IKEA shelves, meatball mallets, and “For Whom the Bell Tolls” as the ultimate air-drum pick. Perfect.”

The Pocket Before the Flash

The conversation opens with Ludvig Kennberg reflecting on his philosophy as a drummer: serve the song first. Known for his subtle ghost notes and deep pocket with Ghost, Ludvig explains how simplicity, restraint, and feel—not flashy chops—create the foundation that allows songs to breathe and reach wider audiences.

Ghost, the Studio, and Saying No to the Road

Kennberg pulls back the curtain on his long-running studio collaboration with Tobias Forge, detailing how they work side by side to shape Ghost’s albums while keeping the live experience separate. He discusses why he’s repeatedly declined touring with the band, choosing instead to protect the creative calm that fuels his best playing.

Swedish Roots, Sound Design, and What’s Next

From punk shows and borrowed kits to Swedish lakes, sampled shelves, and jazz influences, Ludvig traces the roots of his musical identity. The conversation closes with a look ahead: a solo project where he plays everything and sings, driven by harmony, texture, and the same intuitive approach that defines his drumming.

Watch video version here:

RAW TRANSCRIPT (Pardon the old-school glitches):

Ari Gold: Hello, hear me? I can Yeah. Can you hear me?

Ludvig Kennberg: Yes, perfect.

Ari Gold: I’m good. You’re, you’re on another continent. I’m in New York.

Ludvig Kennberg: In New York.

Ari Gold: Where are you right now?

Ludvig Kennberg: I’m in Linköping Sweden , where I was born . And I’m actually in the house. But my parents house. Okay. It’s my dad’s birthday today.

Ari Gold: Happy birthday to your father. Yeah, I’ve actually been to Linköping . Yes, I have. I know. opare That worked for my half sister who lived there. And I went and visited at one point and, you know, but to see the world. So very, very happy to be talking with you. You’re strangely mysterious guests. Because you’ve been part of a mysterious ectoplasm for a while now. So, you know, I’d love to talk with you about how you, your voice as a drummer, your voice as a mysterious drummer. And how you you know, express yourself artistically both as a person for hire, and then also in your fairly to me, Zen and Zen form of playing when you’re playing your own music. So shall we talk a little bit about ghosts? Are we allowed? Us?

Ludvig Kennberg: Yes, we are.

Ari Gold: So, I mean, one of the things that I find so interesting about that project, you know, obviously the the way that the anonymity of the live players, the sometime in, in an ad of the studio players curious to know, you know, are you creating a sound that that then getting imitated on the road? Or how do you have a relationship with the live players who do what, you know, your tracks that you’ve laid down? What’s that? Like?

Ludvig Kennberg: No, I don’t have a relationship to the to the live guys that are the live drummer. But me and Tobias yes, we, when we work together in the studio, we I have some ideas and he has some ideas, and then we try to work things out. And then he, on the when he’s doing a new tour on a new album. I think he wants it to be like the album. And then, you know, after a couple of years, you want to change stuff, even if, like live versions and stuff,

Ari Gold: Right? Because what you know, your groups are so pocket, you know, there’s like, a lot of drummers who you know, show off a lot and I’ve noticed something about your drumming that like at first it seems really simple. You know, seems super simple, right? People? Oh, that’s easy, but then you like listen more carefully. You’re doing a lot of ghost notes. Can I take those notes about ghosties? Yeah. Yeah, but you know, you’re doing a lot of subtle things that are not flash, but they are one of the reasons the pocket is so great. And one reason those songs are able to I think, you know, crossover to the, for lack of a better word kind of mainstream audience that like, you know, it doesn’t sound like musicians trying to get attention. But as you’re courting the song is that something that you’re consciously doing with him that you do you do more with him? And then you might do on your own projects? Or

Ludvig Kennberg: I tried to do I try to play what the whatever the song needs because I don’t if if if I’m playing on a project where where the song needs like a lot of drums and a lot of fields and flashy stuff. I’ll do that but I like more to play simple. And to let the other instruments in on the songs. Yeah. I think that’s my A way of thinking of music overall. So when I do my own stuff that I’ve been posting on Instagram and a CD in my I have a tiny studio at my house where I create stuff, and then I go to the place where I record drums. And I bring it there and then I just didn’t. It’s just improvising drums. So all the clips on on that I posted on Instagram is is just, that’s me. Improvising. Right. Yeah.

Ari Gold: But, like, you know, something, I was watching something you did, I guess last year rehearsal space, right? For an example. Like, you know that to me, you know, one of the things that was interesting, you know, how musical you’re playing so simply, but musically, it’s almost like you’re playing a piano, but as drums. Yeah. Using using the kit. I mean, it reminded me I did, I went in to talk with Terry Bozzio. At one point, who is, you know, more sort of, I mean, he’s obviously extreme in terms of the flashiness. But the similarity that I saw between you and him is that it feels like you’re using the different drums as different notes. You know, you’re not like trying to show off your latest, you know, exercise.

Ludvig Kennberg: I don’t have it, I can’t show off any exercise because I never practice. You only create. Yeah, totally.

Ari Gold: Don’t practice. Is that true? Yeah, I never practice. So that’s interesting, because some of the guys I talked to, you know, it’s all about practicing. And they’re like, hours a day of, you know, they see something even like, on Instagram that some, you know, some Instagram drummer has done where they like figuring out like, some complicated subdivision, you know, some strange time signature, and they’ll spend all day practicing. And they’re like, Yeah, you got to my job as a drummer is to, you know, stay ahead of the curve on all the cool new licks. That’s a very different philosophy than like, to be in the pocket of song. You know, improvising?

Ludvig Kennberg: Yeah. But I think I practice like, mentally for, can you say that? Yeah. Because I think about grooves in music, and, like, tiny synth steps and, or harmonies or something. Stuff like that. But I kind of practice, but not in a in a, in a real like, drama. I’m not like the, the I’ve never been like the drummer that practice and try to learn, so I don’t think I can do like a medieval thing correctly. I just play.

Ari Gold: That’s why your relationship has sustained with Tobias all these years, and you know, because you’re not sort of pushing. You’re pushing up pushing, like, an agenda musically. Or, like, what’s what? How do you guys relate in in terms of that, you know, like, because you’re not showing off? And that’s one of the things that’s great about it, it’s like, you create a foundation, which is what drums, you know, traditionally would have been?

Ludvig Kennberg: Yeah. It’s always, when he, when he calls me to play drums on his, on his tracks. I’m always pretty nervous. Because since I don’t practice, like, Oh, I’m not gonna make the I talk to my wife a lot about it. And she’s like, Oh, you’re going to be fine. But it always turns out, because when it comes to to be as I know, he knows what I can do. And I know kind of what he wants. Sweet. It’s just, it’s just working when when we are doing stuff together. And then maybe I can see the first two days of tracking is more like a practice. thing. So the first two songs we do with like the practice songs,

Ari Gold: he tracks on his first drums question.

Ludvig Kennberg: And no, he does the demos with the producer often. And then he sends me the demos and then I can rehearse a bit at home or I can.

Ari Gold: So it’s like, he demos the track with like a click or a drum machine or something. Then you come in and you create the groove, and then it goes back to him to build on top of that again, is that the process?

Ludvig Kennberg: No, no, we’re always in the studio together. Okay, okay. So like the last I wasn’t on the last album, but the album before that Prequelle . I went to Stockholm for two weeks, and we were together. And I lived with a producer in an apartment

Ari Gold: On the Record. Do you have a favorite? Right? Yeah, Faith. What? Why?

Ludvig Kennberg: Because it’s Groovy

Ari Gold: Groove. What your favorite because of your group because of the song, are they? I guess they’re all integrated now. Right? Because you think

Ludvig Kennberg: I like the groove and the feeling the heaviness and like the the the tiny breaks are not like, I don’t know how many counts. It’s just that it’s just a feel all those breaks. It’s just you have to feel them. And then you like, getting to the song again. I liked that song a lot.

Ari Gold: Has there ever been a discussion of you playing live with them?

Ludvig Kennberg: Yes But said no.

Ari Gold: You say no. Yeah. Because you just don’t want to deal with the craziness of touring.

Ludvig Kennberg: All like the first when we did the first album, he wanted me to play live. But get the ghost thing at that time. So I think that was a bit like, no, I’ll just do the album and then we’ll catch up some other time. But then it all like so my friend actually. My friend Axel home Gideon is a great drummer. He was the drummer on on the first tour and the second album, and did tour with them until the third album. And then when so he did that first thing and then I saw this whole, just the ghost. The band just exploded over. That was a bit sad. No. No, I’m just I’ve always been happy for them. But then he asked me again when we did the third album because I went to LA to East West studios and track drums for milli watt. And then he asked me again and then but I said no again.

Ari Gold: Even though even though you kind of regretted it for a second then you said you this is your your mantra as you’re gonna make him beg for it. The 40 years.

Ludvig Kennberg: Yeah, no, I don’t know. I don’t think it’s just the whole touring thing. I love to create music and I love to create sounds and I love to make weird noises. Like, I’ve been recording shelves at my home studio. We’re like looping stuff and I like to do

Ari Gold: IKEA shops. Yeah, they are IKEA. Yeah. It’s it’s your national pride.

Ludvig Kennberg: Yes. And meatballs. Okay.

Ari Gold: So you use the meatballs, put the meatballs on the tip of your sticks. And then Exactly, exactly. Yeah, I mean that there’s there is the kind of like, I mean, I think about the drummer composers who think musically like that, you know, you know, Stewart Copeland also comes to mind. I don’t know how if you who influenced you as drummer, unless you’re the kind of drummer who were only influenced by violinists in which case, which violinists introduced influenced you, but But yeah, who were you inspired by like as a as a 12 year old?

Ludvig Kennberg: And I would say, Oh, I have to say my, my brother was a big Dave Matthews Band fan. Really? It was listening. Yeah, he loved the Matthews Band and he loved the band called Blind melon. And he and Pearl Jam and stuff like that. And Soundgarden. I think that Carter Beauford. That’s his name right? From the Matthews Band. Carter. Sorry, he was he was an inspiration to me when I when I He inspired me to play flashy stuff when I was a kid. And then Yeah, some I mean, Burnham and all those cool guys, you know they are, there’s a lot like, like for the last like two years I’ve been really inspired by by piano players you know, like the, the pianos where you have filled strips sounds like really dark and so. And people that can really play those that with a lot of reverb on and they make some cool rhythmic stuff sometimes on. And I’ve been listening a lot to that I bought some like sample pack thing with that kind of I use it all the time, when I’m bored.

Ari Gold: You make your own samples around the house.

Ludvig Kennberg: No, I make I use both samples to those kinds of samples to create the same kind of vibe. That was,

Ari Gold: you seemed like the kind of person who could like go out into the woods, and like tap on a tree, tap on a branch, poke an owl in the nose. And sample that way.

Ludvig Kennberg: Absolutely. Me and my daughter actually, there’s a tree quite close to our house that we brought some drumsticks and we played that tree wood just a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, and you and my favorite sound is we have a we have a summer house, like our way. And we’ve had that since I was a little kid my family. And my favorite thing to do there is throwing like tiny rocks into the woods. And then there is like a big echo from the forest. When you sound so weird right now.

Ari Gold: But this sounds to me like you could compose the whole kind of Symphony using those towns. But it seems like this could be your next project. What is your project besides what we’re suggesting right now,

Ludvig Kennberg: my next project I’m working on. I’m working on my vocal sexually. I’ve always been singing a lot. But for the last two years, I’ve been working on songs where I play everything and I sing. And that’s really hard, but it’s really fun. And it’s so amazing to make it. Harmonies that’s the best thing. It’s even more fun than playing drums right now, I think

Ari Gold: to harmonize with yourself. Yeah. Are you writing lyrics to or doing like? Esoteric sounds?

Ludvig Kennberg: No, I tried to write lyrics. I’m not good at it. But it’s English. In English. Yes.

Ari Gold: Do you want to do you want to throw down a little couplet for us?

Ludvig Kennberg: Right now?

Ari Gold: Right now? No. All right.

Ludvig Kennberg: I can I can I, I hopefully will release it before the end of the summer.

Ari Gold: Okay. And when you like, are you putting stuff out on you know, on a label or on Spotify or anything like that? Are you just are you putting it on YouTube? But what’s, what is?

Ludvig Kennberg: I don’t I don’t have a label. But I have some friends that can help me. But it will be on Spotify. Okay, okay, stuff like that.

Ari Gold: Well, we’ll promote it. What will promote it when you if you want to be promote? You seem like the kind of person who might not care if it gets promoted. But we will if you want us to.

Ludvig Kennberg: Yeah, I really want you to promote it.

Ari Gold: And are you know if you’re doing anything with ghosts in the works, or is that always a mystery until it happens?

Ludvig Kennberg: Yeah, that’s the mystery until it happens. Right now he’s on tour and he’s doing all that. You never know. He might call me in a couple of weeks or a couple of years. Yeah.

Ari Gold: Well, it sounds like I can imagine being in the studio with you would be a low stress situation. Because your vibe is I think as a player, it’s so pockety but also, you know, your your countenance right now is very calming. I can imagine like, you know, if you’re a composer performer like him and you’re in the studio and you’re trying some stuff out, you know that you’re not going to get any You know, kind of attitude from you, I would imagine, to some, some, you know, I’ve been in recording studios with musicians where they’re, you know, they’re coming to lay down one track, and you’re doing more than that, but someone might come in to lay a little thing. And then suddenly, like, you realize that half the time you’re spending, trying to just manage their ego. I mean, I had a contract I was doing my brother brought in a really great musician who we both admired for many years to do a track. I’m not going to say what instrument it is, because somebody could figure it out. Maybe but but we were so excited to have him in the studio. And then we were like, these are the, these are the formalities that are kind of the themes of the movie, and we want to, you know, can you play these four and then start improvising off of them? And then he said, even though he’d come into play, the compose music, he said, Well, you know, why not just play the melody? Like it is okay, we want you to improvise. Like, yeah, but I don’t want to hear the melody. Like, okay, but you, you have to hear it, know what the theme is. And it became kind of a miserable couple hours. So, you know, you don’t seem like that type. That’s my

Ludvig Kennberg: No, I think I’m I’m quite easy to work with I think. And I, I, you know, I’m, I can’t just, I can’t be stressed. I’m always relaxed, I think.

Ari Gold: Okay, but your, your favorite my mentioned your favorite track on the on the last record was was fate, which is the, maybe the most mentally of the tracks, you know, some of the stuff is has a bit of a pop flavor these days, and goes, I’m gonna say, and that’s, that has a bit of a more of a metal heritage. Do you have a metal heritage as a drummer? Is that why you like playing that track?

Ludvig Kennberg: No, no, I just, I just like the vibe. I just have that song. But I don’t see myself as a as, like, mythical guy. Or I don’t listen a lot to that music. I used to do that. But now I’m more. I listened a lot to to jazz and stuff. Like that. It’s my go to. Lately I’ve been listening to what’s his name? The drummer mark. Giuliana. Is that his name?

Ari Gold: Oh, no, sorry.

Ludvig Kennberg: He has to Jeff Quarter. Quarter that

Ari Gold: Ah, you’re listening to like current jazz? Yeah. Okay.

Ludvig Kennberg: And I listened a lot to, you know, the basic, his album morning face. Because it has jazz influences now? No, because it’s, it has some soft influences. That was not the jazz part.

Ari Gold: Okay. Cuz I talked to Alex Skolnick. You know, the guitarist for testament, but also an Alex Golden Trio that does like, very, you know, kind of high technical jazz. But I kind of like when I see people who play hard music also playing jazz because it’s, you know, I think the average fan doesn’t realize what a synthesis there can be between those forms. Do you think it’s going to influence your playing that you’re listening to? to jazz? Somebody’s saying? Yeah, Mark. Giuliana is helping us get our spelling right. Thank you, Juliana.

Ludvig Kennberg: Yeah. That’s the thing. I just I like to listen to it, but I can’t really play it. I might have to I can, like put in some jazzy vibes sometimes on a ride thing or, but I can’t really play like the traditional traditional jazz. But I’ve tried to do like to knock a drum kit. Like really high in imprinted in Vienna. Adjust drummer, but it doesn’t really work.

Ari Gold: What what kids do play?

Ludvig Kennberg: Oh, hi. I have a lot of different Kits.

Ari Gold: Do you have a Ludvig?

Ludvig Kennberg: No, I actually don’t

Ari Gold: do you realize that getting one could be good for you because it’s your name and that might be a you know, might give you a nice sense of ownership like when I film something and I’m shooting with an arrow flags and my name is Ari. You know, I feel a little bit like I’m taking care of.

Ludvig Kennberg: But okay, issue that they should have. They should have hooked me up. We should do something with love we

Ari Gold: but what are you? In reality?

Ludvig Kennberg: I play I play a lot of differently. I have a think I have any new drum. Yeah, one new drum that a guy made me. And it’s what I wanted it to be like an old drum. So it’s a new drum sound like an old

Ari Gold: greeting to sound jazzy.

Ludvig Kennberg: That’s the beefy drum. It sounds really really low. It’s the kind of drum that you tune both of the heads from from the top. What is that you made?

Ari Gold: What does that do to the sound?

Ludvig Kennberg: I think I don’t know actually. But But I just think it’s, it’s easy that that drum is really easy to get like really beefy and it’s, it’s easy to tune low. So that’s my my like, when I want to low snare them. That’s my right that’s an that’s a no name drum.

Ari Gold: But is that a local in Sweden who made it for you

Ludvig Kennberg: guys in Stockholm? Oh, so when when I was in Stockholm recording we did a cover a Metallica cover with me and Toby? Yeah. So he came by the studio with this narrow when I was there. At that studio. Yeah, so you guys stuck with me for me? That’s cool. Yeah. Yeah,

Ari Gold: yeah. Okay.

Ludvig Kennberg: But, I only had like, really? vintage stuff. It’s it most of it is like, nothing like I have a I have a red sparkle kid. And the brand is called drum mate. I think it’s like from the 60s and then I switched out some some some hardware on it but it sounds really really good. And I use that all I use the toms all the time. Then I have like some concert Tom’s like single head. Okay, yeah.

Ari Gold: So when you went out let’s say to LA to do Millie aura, you record the whole record out there? Yeah. So did you bring your esoteric kit or do you work with local drums?

Ludvig Kennberg: Yeah, no, I we had a drum tech. You know, Ross Garfield. Okay. The drum doctor is the drum doctor. He is. Okay. So he was my drum tech on that album. So he brought like, I use the old Gretsch ISIS thing? Yeah, sounded really really, really good.

Ari Gold: Yeah, it’s funny because like some of the drummers as well like the, you know, some of the more technical guys were like, I would never play someone else’s kit. I couldn’t play someone else’s kit. I mean, I’m not a professional drummer. I’m a I’m an Air drummer. So yeah. issues to work through but but I kind of liked the notion that you know, if you go out to record in another country, you just go and it’s you you’re bringing your soul to it. You don’t have to have all that gear. I mean, obviously you get a great job doctor to make it sound good but you’re not so attached to your your gear as though that’s who you are or who you are, as is the is the group and clearly you’re kind of respect for the music as a whole. Rather than drums isn’t my drugs. I make sure my drums are loud and cool and people notice them. Someone says I’m pretty satisfied about the drum kit I bought from Ludvig Okay, someone’s giving us that that’s paralyzed Starr says the bass drum was used for the recording of OPA suppose

Ludvig Kennberg: Oh yeah. Yeah.

Ari Gold: So shout out to that then. So you you don’t mind having one drum from one manufacturer or another from another assemble that you know maybe there’s a tasty there’s a Zildjian there’s like something that you know, like a tin can do. And then then a piece of, you know, someone’s old car hubcap. That was good care for you. Right? Yeah, you can

Ludvig Kennberg: do something with that. But I do play Sabian cymbals. Okay, so, so there. There are like, I’m the Sabian artist, and I’m a vapor artist. So that’s the only things that I like, Okay, I use those brands. I was on a tour, like a couple of weeks ago, a short one with a with a band from town. And the only thing I brought was a snare, cymbal sticks and some hardware. And then I played on the on the kids and I had like,

Ari Gold: was in the town, you play that local kid? Yeah. Do you like that? Do you like to kind of surprise of not knowing what the kid’s gonna sound like?

Ludvig Kennberg: Kind of. It’s like a. And I think it’s like, when I first started playing, I played in like the punk and hardcore scene. And that’s the thing from there, I think. Right? Like, you just play whatever it is. You just got to you have to be able to give the audience a show, even though it’s the bad drunk. It is not their fault.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Yeah, I did a show with my band. When we were playing like tiny stages and Eugene hoods from Gogol bordello, which was at that point, tiny little Ben, I think he lent us a symbol, although it might have been us lending him on, but I think he lent it to us. And we net my job and never gave it back. And then it became like a joke for a year or two when I’ve seen me like, What the fuck is my simple, if I remember correctly, unless we weren’t. But you know, but yeah, we didn’t care what we played. It’s like, it’s if you could hear yourself on stage, that was considered a miracle. And that was it. Yeah. So

Ludvig Kennberg: that was more fun to play at when you were a kid and you just played you didn’t even like the like the the engineer asked you to do is soundcheck and I didn’t know what a soundcheck was, right. I just went up and we started playing and the audience wasn’t ready in the front of house wasn’t ready, nobody was ready. We just started playing I think that was more fun.

Ari Gold: Yeah. And then I guess, you know, when a band starts playing for 10s, of 1000s of people, then it’s a becomes like a very technical thing. I mean, you know, you could have like, you know, you have your ear in your in your headset, and then you have a backup headset on top of your ears. And then you have a click track that’s running the keyboards just doing some backing tracks, and you have a couple of people monitoring that. It sounds to me so much like a almost like a, you know, sports, high level sports. Instead of music, like the level of like, extreme technicality that some of these big touring drummers deal with now. They’ll say to me that, that, you know, over half of their brainpower is used on managing the technical, which is, wouldn’t be my wouldn’t be fun for me.

Ludvig Kennberg: No. Yeah, but you know, it’s, I did, I did play drums for a band called dead soul. And that’s the only time I’ve played with ghosts, because we open up for Ghost and unlike the Scandinavia to work. And that was more like that, more. Like, it became serious. And it was really, really fun. We were two drummers

Ari Gold: to on the stage on stage at the same time.

Ludvig Kennberg: Yeah. They’d still had two drummers. We were like, I think we were seven people on the stage at same time. And that was more like, that was like the first time I really got into the or got into I mean, it was it started to get serious. Like the whole thing. And I was always more nervous playing those shows, than just walking up on the stage and counting and then go rocking or whatever. I mean, it’s more like there’s a juggle,

Ari Gold: and at that point, you’re like, you’re, you’re the cog in a wheel and it’s hard to improvise if you wanted to change something in the middle of a song because you felt it you can’t really know. You got to do it exactly how you’ve rehearsed it and how the machines that you connected to our programs to play with you.

Ludvig Kennberg: Yeah. But I don’t say it was really, really fun to play with that band. I love playing with that band. But I think it’s more fun now. Playing the band I’m playing with right now is more rare like we’re three persons in the band. He plays guitar and sings and bass and it’s me

Ari Gold: always has the flexibility you can you can really hear each other and change. What’s

Ludvig Kennberg: it’s called Marvala. Marvala. Yeah, like marble with that app. Okay, with two dots over there. Yeah, man. Yeah.

Ari Gold: So you’re touring through Sweden right now? Are you gonna go elsewhere?

Ludvig Kennberg: No, we don’t. We don’t have any shows right now. During the summer, so I’m just having a vacation with my kids and my wife right now.

Ari Gold: Are you anywhere near the sea?

Ludvig Kennberg: And not right now. Lakes but yeah, I have a I have a lake at my next to my summer house. Okay, that’s tiny. Like, it’s lovely.

Ari Gold: Yeah. That sounds that sounds really nice.

Ludvig Kennberg: Yeah, it’s really nice. And it just surrounded by trees. And yeah, it’s typical Swedish, tiny Lake.

Ari Gold: Wonderful. Yeah. How much do you think the the soul of Sweden is in in the ghost project?

Ludvig Kennberg: I think it was more in the beginning. Maybe now he’s more? I don’t know. I shouldn’t answer that. I don’t know. Really.

Ari Gold: The beginning implies something that was something in the Swedish experience that somehow was transmitted in the Opus.

Ludvig Kennberg: Yeah, but that was more like, it felt more like a I don’t say black metal, but more like that. I had that vibe. When I when we did the first album, it was going to be like, a typical Swedish classic album, which it is right now. But more the when we did the last time I was on pre cable. It felt like you could hear on the album that he has, that he had reads to like, the next level to a bigger audience and to the whole ghost machine is much bigger right now than it was.

Ari Gold: Right. Yeah, so and he likes that.

Ludvig Kennberg: I’m glad he likes it. Because he’s a really really, really, really good songwriter, and a really, really good guy. And yeah, yeah, I love to work with him.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Cool. Well maybe we’ll sign off with the hope that I can hear metadata negativo Yeah, doing and maybe you’ll be on a ghost record soon if the call comes. Or when it comes. And I am jealous that you can jump in a lake right now. I guess. It’s probably still still light out even though it’s nine at night there Right? Probably still sunny. Yeah, it’s sunny. Yeah. Does the sun want to see it? I want to know you can see the lake but you can you can see the room. I mean,

Ludvig Kennberg: but are you can’t see the sun. Oh,

Ari Gold: sorry. No. Okay. Well, imagine you have a nice poster of linchpin as well as did see that.

Ludvig Kennberg: Yeah, that’s my, this is my mom’s

Ari Gold: poster to design you

Ludvig Kennberg: know, a friend of mine called David ANR. He designed it and my mom bought it from him. I guess.

Ari Gold: It’s like a just a poster celebrating the shipping.

Ludvig Kennberg: Yeah, so the classic like the church and the big food store and yeah. burger place called. Stone Gabriel got to show up.

Ari Gold: Yeah, the tourist capital of the world. Yeah, everyone’s coming to lynch shipping, to check

Ludvig Kennberg: Yeah, check out that song you gotta check. That’s amazing burgers is my son’s favorite place

Ari Gold: nice thanks to what do you say have no kicks you

Ludvig Kennberg: know I don’t think so. Okay. They have a sharklet drink called pouco

Ari Gold: good Cool. Cool. Okay

Ludvig Kennberg: per and that that means also like damn ahead in Swedish

Ari Gold: who knows? Yeah okay well you happy happy almost midsummer we just a few days after midsummer but I send you my heartfelt respect for your your vibration and doing it vibration movement with my hand for those who are only listening Yes Did you feel like you could do comedy I feel like you belong in a Tim and Eric

Ludvig Kennberg: maybe I should do that. Tim and Eric the comedy thing

Ari Gold: Yeah, I think I think I think your next projects sample sample the sound of playing drumsticks gently against the sweetest words making jokes, making jokes sample the sound of jokes so you can hear yourself singing the jokes. Notes and then play with Swedish meatball mallets and just watch them watch the money come come in

Ludvig Kennberg: sound good? Good plant my summer

Ari Gold: okay, just send me 10% of all profits and I’ll invest in IKEA

Ari Gold: Very nice to meet you. I you know if I’m if I travel a lot, so if I’m in Sweden, you’re gonna get an annoying call from me and I’m gonna ask to swim in your lake.

Ludvig Kennberg: Yeah, yeah. You’re welcome.

Ari Gold: Okay. You can swim in the East River here in New York. Good luck. Okay, well, very nice to meet you. And I’ll catch you soon. Maybe. In Sweden. Yeah. Sweet sounds nicer may the force be with you?

Ludvig Kennberg: May the Fourth be wish.

Ari Gold: By all available sorry, one more question. Because I made a movie about here drummers called Adventures of power, which I think you can see on Amazon even in Sweden. If not, you can go to our drummer.com What is your favorite song to air drum to I forgot all History

Ludvig Kennberg: For Whom the Bell Tolls were the Metallica is you call that?

Ari Gold: Well, there is a Britain belt house by Metallica. Isn’t that don’t Oh, no. Right. Yeah. Okay. Well, so I have some air drumming videos to Metallica. But I have not yet done From The Bell Tolls. So maybe I’ll add that to my repertoire for you. For you and Lars. Okay, we’ll catch you later.

This interview originally appeared on Hotsticks.fm.

See more about Ludvig Kennberg on the official site for Adventures of Power, the world’s greatest (and only) Air Drum Movie!

Enjoyed this session? Explore more from the Interviews Archive.

From Punk Roots to Global Stages

The conversation opens with Brendan Buckley tracing his journey from New Jersey punk and metal scenes to becoming one of the most adaptable drummers in modern music. He reflects on early influences—from Rush and Bad Brains to jazz and rudimental training—and how studying broadly allowed him to thrive in wildly different musical environments.

Serving the Song, Whatever the Genre

Buckley breaks down the realities of working with artists as diverse as DMX, Shakira, Julio Iglesias, and Perry Farrell. From last-minute auditions to electronics-heavy live rigs, he explains how preparation, flexibility, and calm problem-solving are essential when everything can—and will—go wrong onstage.

Creativity, Humility, and Longevity

Beyond technique, the discussion turns philosophical: how to balance personal identity with service, why not trying to please everyone is key to mental health, and how walking a city, staying physically loose, and remaining curious keeps creativity alive. It’s a candid masterclass in surviving—and thriving—as a working drummer in the modern era.

Watch video version here:

RAW TRANSCRIPT (Pardon the old-school glitches):

Brendan Buckley: Hi. Can you hear me?

Ari Gold: I can. Greetings. I’m just pinning this pin away. Pin away. Greetings. Good morning. Where are you?

Brendan Buckley: Los Angeles. You?

Ari Gold: We could have met in person.

Brendan Buckley: We still have time. Where are you?

Ari Gold: What part of town? Oh my god. So—my [place], we’re a few blocks. You could probably shout out the window and say hi to me.

Brendan Buckley: Do you live there?

Ari Gold: I’m here for a couple of days. I used to live here and I’ve sort of become a perpetual traveler. But yeah. How was that thunderstorm last night, huh?

Brendan Buckley: Yeah. Last night and this morning. Yeah—I got up early to do… I had like a little class to do this morning. And it was thundering the whole way through.

Ari Gold: It’s nice. A class meaning—you were teaching something online, or…?

Brendan Buckley: No. I went to a wrestling / martial arts beat-down class at 7 AM this morning. And it was fun because it had a soundtrack this morning.

Ari Gold: Yeah. That followed by the car alarms.

Brendan Buckley: That also. Yeah, yeah. Well, there’s much-needed rain here in California. So it’s a welcome thunderstorm.

Ari Gold: Yeah, exactly. Well, thank you so much for joining me on hotsticks.fm—otherwise known as airdrummer.com. We have one video, one audio. You are a master of many genres as a drummer. I see you’ve actually even got the drums behind you. For the audio version people won’t be able to see that, but—are those real drums? Rosetta Green script.

Brendan Buckley: I’m at a studio. This is my avatar. No, this is a drum set that I used yesterday on a recording for a friend of mine. So it—that’s a plug-in… Well, this is just an assortment of different things here. I mean, if you look around the room, there’s drums everywhere. But this one happens to be my ’60s Ludwig kit with a snare drum that’s an odd one. It’s actually called a Sherwood—S-H-E-R-W-O-D, I think. And I bought it at Pro Drum in LA, just because it looked old and cool. And it was very affordable because—what’s a Sherwood? And then I looked it up on the internet—apparently it was like an offshoot of Ludwig for a year or two. It’s the same thing. So it’s like a ’40s Ludwig snare with a different badge on it, and it sounds incredible.

Ari Gold: A jazzy feel in some way.

Brendan Buckley: It can. It can.

Ari Gold: I mean, there—that existed before rock music, which is kind of cool.

Brendan Buckley: There are certain drums… like maybe in the ’90s—I used to take every drum I would audition to buy, and I would just take it and start whacking rimshots on it and say, “Sounds good,” take it home. Whack, whack, whack—sounds pretty good. Because that’s how I played in the ’90s basically. And now there’s certain drums that sound really good when you just do the tip in the center of the snare drum, no rimshot thing. And there’s other drums that sound really good when you nail them like an aluminum baseball bat on a pipe, you know. So you have some tips. So sometimes I’ll look at drums and I’m like, I don’t think that’s the bashing rimshotty drum—that’s more of the tip-in-the-center kind of drum. And so you have your pile of snare drums that’s more for that style, and the pile of snare drums that’s more for whacking two and four with a rimshot—and you kind of separate them.

Ari Gold: How many snare drums do you have in your…?

Brendan Buckley: I’ve lost count. It varies from… I don’t know, 30 to 50, I guess. Well, it depends—depends on how much money I need. Or I sell a bunch and then I buy a few again. It fluctuates.

Ari Gold: As an air drummer, I can play all of your snare drums in my mind. Yeah. It’s very cheap.

Brendan Buckley: Very efficient also. Yeah.

Ari Gold: You’re with DW for hardware or…?

Brendan Buckley: I’ve been with DW drums since 2000 or 2001. I can’t remember exactly when I signed with them. But yeah—over 20 years. Drums and hardware. And LP percussion. Sabian cymbals since the late ’90s. Remo. Vic Firth. I’ve been with the same companies for—yeah, 20 years or longer.

Ari Gold: [Someone] on the board—he’s such a wonderful guy over at DW. And do you… Well—

Brendan Buckley: Yeah, I do. I’m only slightly over an hour drive away from their factory. So I’ll get the random email or phone call like, “Hey, what are you doing on Friday morning? You want to come up and do something with us?” And I’m a big fan of drum education in general—just all forms of drum education. So anytime anyone has any type of idea that involves getting drums out to the masses, I’m down. So I think DW is really good with that stuff.

Ari Gold: I mean, he was ahead of the curve. These days there’s so many Instagram drummers—people who are kind of getting their chops but never playing with other people because they become really proficient playing with their phone, playing along with music. I was talking with him about the difference between the kind of education people get from watching some Instagram drummer versus an actual pro drummer who plays with other people and can talk to them in a more measured way. What do you think you provide when you go up to a Drum Channel as a teacher online that someone isn’t going to get from an Instagram drummer with a million followers who—

Brendan Buckley: If I have no prompts and they say, “Just teach something,” then I’ll usually teach whatever I’m working on—or what I find works for me—or what helps me play the drums better. I’m always looking for cheat codes to get better at the drums, you know—discarding exercises that have no meaning to me and finding exercises that actually make me better at what I do. So if I find one, I’m like, “Oh, this is great. I wish I knew this 20 years ago.” I’m going to share this exercise. And so that’s usually what I teach.

However, what I found also works well is people just wanting me to tell stories—what it was like going from my teens to my 20s, or moving from here to here, or working with this person, working with that person. So I find that when it comes to teaching, part of it is me consciously passing on drum exercises or advice, and part of it is just me sharing stories.

Ari Gold: Yeah. I mean, I love hearing stories. I’ve got my own special questions based on your incredible roster of people you play with—like playing with someone like DMX and playing with Miley Cyrus. Those are a pretty different energy you’re going to have to bring on stage. Can you talk a little bit about working with DMX? I love DMX.

Brendan Buckley: Oh yeah—that was a random thing. I was living in Miami, and I did a lot of studio sessions there—just all sorts of things. And one day a guitarist friend of mine said, “Hey, I gave your number to the DMX crew. They’re looking at putting some live drums on their next album.” I’m like, “Wow, that’s awesome. I love this last record.” So cool. Sure enough I got a call from his manager saying, “What are you doing? Can you come by Criteria Studios?” So I showed up with a drum set, and there was just an engineer there. They said, “He’ll be here with his crew any moment now.” And that “any moment now” was probably six or eight hours later. So to kill that time we just recorded drums. We set up the drums. I said, “Well do you have the first song he wants to start with?” They’re like, “We do.” So he played me the song and I just played through it several times. Then finally he came in—shook hands, “Nice to meet you”—listened to it once, then went into the vocal booth and tracked vocals on top of it, double-tracked the vocals, did a hype track on top of that, said, “I love it, we’re done.” He wasn’t even there for me recording it. He had no notes for me. Just walked in: “Love it.” He freestyled a bunch of lyrics and I was blown away by how good he was and how quick he was. And that was it. Then at the end of the night he’s like, “Man, this is a great vibe. You want to go on tour with me?” I’m like, “Sure.” But that wound up never happening. I was totally excited to try that.

Ari Gold: Yeah. That would have been…Another one I have to ask about is Julio Iglesias Jr. Ah—well, that would be senior. That’s pretty bad. Was that in studio or live or both?

Brendan Buckley: That was live. But that’s not “To All the Girls I’ve Loved Before” Julio. So it was—also in Miami. His longtime drummer Lee Levin was a friend of mine, and he was leaving—or at least taking a hiatus from the band. So I got called to either fill in, sub, or take over the gig. My audition was: they sent me a 90-minute cassette tape of a live show. It said, “Learn the first six songs and fly out to our next soundcheck.” So I did that. I flew out to the soundcheck, met him, sat down, played the first six songs of his show with the band, and he said, “I love it. You will play the show tonight.” I looked around—“Well, I only learned the first six songs.” He’s like, “Well then you just play the first six songs tonight, and then my other drummer will hop back on the stage.” And that’s how I got the gig. It was great. I might have been 21 at the time.

Ari Gold: So you flew down there, you didn’t know you had the gig, and you were flying on your own dime to—

Brendan Buckley: No, they paid for me to fly in. It was basically a soundcheck rehearsal.

Ari Gold: Okay, that’s gentlemanly.

Brendan Buckley: Yeah. It was an audition, but I wasn’t expecting to get the gig that quickly. I thought I was gonna fly home and come out two weeks later or something.

Ari Gold: You weren’t expecting to play that night.

Brendan Buckley: Yeah. Then I had to quickly run across the street to a mall and get a long-sleeve button-down shirt and pants, because I probably had shorts and a tank top at that point. I’m like, “Oh shoot, I gotta go get ready.” So it was fun. It was great while it lasted.

Ari Gold: So when you’re doing a gig like that—whatever the drum tech sets up in front of you—you’re gonna play that? Or do you bring your own heads or cymbals or snare or foot pedal? What do you travel with when you’re a journeyman like that?

Brendan Buckley: It’s different for every situation. Certain gigs, I have my entire setup customized down to measurements and everything. That all goes into cases and goes on the road for eight months or 18 months and travels around the world with me and my drum tech. I set it up once, mark everything, memory lock everything, and it’s that way every night for the rest of the tour. The total opposite is I often fly into shows where they rent a kit from a local backline agency—like SIR or Center Staging—and they get as close as they can to my specs. So I’ll email: “Can you get me a DW with a 13 rack, 22-inch kick, 16 and 18 floor toms, a nickel-over-brass 6x14 snare, three crashes, ride, hi-hat,” and they’ll say, “We’ll get as close as we can.” Then I show up and see what they have, and I make it work. If it’s a Yamaha kit with Evans heads and ProMark sticks and Zildjian cymbals, I’m like, “Darn it. Well, let’s do this anyway.” And then there’s in-between: sometimes I’ll fly with my stick bag, my in-ears, maybe charts, a metronome, maybe a pedal, maybe cymbals, maybe a snare drum. But I’ve found traveling with less is easier. So I try to use as much rental gear as I can unless they can fly all of my stuff.

Ari Gold: Right. I’m traveling around as a filmmaker. I’ve got this mini kit I bring—one camera, one lens, one gimbal—carry-on. I like having gear I can carry onto a plane. Capability—like you can do your job anywhere. I was in Latvia and got called to film in Ukraine a few weeks ago. I shot a lot there. Having the opportunity to fly off somewhere—Liev Schreiber was going in and needed someone to drive around with him and it was like, “When are you doing that?” and they were like, “Tonight.” So there I went.

Brendan Buckley: And I suppose that your little travel kit is something you couldn’t have had 25 years ago either. Maybe you’d have a gigantic [rig] with a VHS tape in it… Now you’ve got a portable technological—

Ari Gold: I’ve got three microphones, a camera lens, a gimbal. I’ve shot a lot on it. I went down to Brazil and shot there for this show I’m putting together. Portability… I made a movie about air drumming where the idea is: you always have to have the heartbeat in you. You can’t rely on the gear. Try to live my life like my character—finding that capability within yourself and being ready at all times. Technology made that easier for film, but not so much for drums—you need your drums. I think someone is asking—someone saying you sounded great—Stu Brooks and Perry F… Speaking of Perry Farrell—do you want to talk about that?

Brendan Buckley: Oh, Perry is the best. I started working with him in 2018. He released a solo record and I got called to join his project Kind Heaven. Stu Brooks now plays in that band. It was Chris Chaney prior—Jane’s Addiction bassist. It’s a fun LA all-star cast—killer musicians. Perry’s wonderful. I grew up listening to Jane’s Addiction, so it was odd at first because I’d seen him live so many times. But he’s great. Super nice. Loves music. Positive. A joy to work with. We did a European tour. We were going to do South America right as the pandemic hit, so that was a bummer. But I have a gig with him next week, rehearsals this week, and I’m looking forward to seeing them again.

Ari Gold: You can tell him I saw Jane’s Addiction at The Stone on Broadway in San Francisco, and I think there were maybe 17 people there.

Brendan Buckley: What year was that?

Ari Gold: Late ’80s. Like ’88.

Brendan Buckley: That sounds about right. That was when they were still playing for 17 people.

Ari Gold: The show was a bit of a mess. A charming mess. But I was like—wow. They’re… “good enough” would be a way of putting it.

Brendan Buckley: So Perry’s doing a show here in LA where half the night is his solo band and half the night is Porno for Pyros with Stephen Perkins. It’ll be a good one. He’s so nice. He’s got the stage with him.

Ari Gold: I’d love to have him on the show. I don’t know if I’ve met him. I feel like I’ve met him… probably at an Ozomatli show. You played with Ozomatli too, right?

Brendan Buckley: I did. When I first moved to LA, their drummer at the time was Mario Calire—drummer for The Wallflowers and a bunch of other acts. He asked me to sub for them and it’s to this day one of the hardest gigs I ever had to sub. Learning that material was super challenging. It was so varied. So many stops and hits and unison sections. And they do everything different every night. It’s all on cue—watch the bassist for this, watch the sax player for this. I almost had a breakdown learning that set. I practiced for two weeks straight—every day—trying to get it together. Then I flew out to their first show. No rehearsal, just soundcheck. We ran maybe six songs at soundcheck and said, “Alright, cross your fingers.” Then we went into a festival tour: started in California, then Australia, Tasmania, New Zealand. It was a blast. Still friends with those guys. They’re so talented.

Ari Gold: Can you talk about your biggest choke on stage? People think about prepping for two weeks for Ozomatli or two hours for Julio Iglesias—things must have gone sideways. Something embarrassing, to make students feel better?

Brendan Buckley: Murphy’s Law: if it can go wrong, it will go wrong. You have to expect things to go wrong. Not wish them—but practice with those scenarios in mind: What if the singer doesn’t come in? What if my hi-hat falls apart? What if I can’t hear the click? What if the computer crashes? What if the bass drum head breaks? You have to have those scenarios in mind so it doesn’t shock you. I have enough experience now that I have the show down in a perfect scenario, but then I think: what if it’s not perfect? Can I still get through? A lot of acts have tracks—computers running tracks. That’s a whole mess. It’s gonna crash at some point. What I normally do: I have one set of in-ears wired into a pack—no wireless, straight into the monitor board. I also have a second set of in-ears onstage next to me. I have a second pack on my belt that’s wireless. If the first one dies, unplug and plug into the second. I also develop communication with the electronics person side-stage: cues for starting songs, stopping songs, what we do if something goes wrong, who do we follow if someone gets lost. You have to talk about it in advance so the first time it happens you’re not all looking around like, “What is going on?” Singer doesn’t come out from wardrobe change? Shut off the computer, vamp the intro, then when I look at you start the chorus—those kinds of plans. So if you want stories, there’s too many because everything can go wrong.

Ari Gold: Give me the one where you got home and were like, “Wow.” The nightmare one.

Brendan Buckley: Man… there’s dozens and dozens of moments like that. You just have to say: that was one show—move on. Don’t point fingers. Don’t freak out. Just move on. But I was subbing once for a friend. Not my show, not my rig, not my drum set. I learned the music. I sit down, start playing the show—live audience. Second song, my ears stop working. I don’t know why. I look around: did anyone else lose click and tracks? Everyone else keeps playing. So it must be me. I can’t hear the music. I slowly drop out. Everyone looks at me. I’m like—I don’t have headphones anymore. Normally I’d have backup packs, I’d see the monitor engineer, I’d see the tracks guy, I’d have a talkback mic. But it’s not my show. So I had to sit there until they fixed it—probably 30 seconds but felt like an hour. They sorted it out, and that’s why I’m adamant about having a system.

Ari Gold: So when you dropped out, the bassist kept going—was there a percussionist or backing tracks?

Brendan Buckley: Or loops? Loops and things.

Ari Gold: So it wasn’t a total drop-out of rhythm section.

Brendan Buckley: I don’t think so. I don’t remember. But yeah—things always go wrong. The key is you have to be good enough where the audience isn’t gonna notice. The band might notice and freak out, but make sure it’s not evident to the spectators.

Ari Gold: Yeah. In my movie Adventures of Power, his stool collapses at the end and he keeps air drumming. The show must go on. This—(for the video version) I pulled this off my shelf. I have a German-language version of the DVD that says “Luftgitarre war gestern,” which means “air guitar was yesterday.” Or drummer movie.

Brendan Buckley: That’s a motto to live by.

Ari Gold: A motto to live by. So—Shakira. How did you end up working with Shakira?

Brendan Buckley: That happened through a Miami thing. Gloria Estefan had a recording studio there that was prominent at the time. I don’t think it’s around anymore. I used to work there from time to time. Shakira came through Miami to record one of her records. The producer and engineer called me up and asked me to come by and throw some “rock drums” on one of the songs. So I came by and did that.

Ari Gold: When someone asks for “rock drums,” what does that mean?

Brendan Buckley: At the time—this was 1998—it meant she’s a pop artist but wants to sound more rock. As opposed to programming dance beats. Probably the demo had electronics, and they thought adding acoustic drums would give it more beef.

Ari Gold: Like John Bonham, or Steve Gadd.

Brendan Buckley: Could be, depending on the song. A lot of people start with electronic demos, then decide what to keep and what to replace with real musicians. That’s pretty standard now. So I played on maybe six songs in two weeks. Then I started playing live shows with her and her band, and I’ve been doing it ever since then.

Ari Gold: When you moved to Florida—how old were you?

Brendan Buckley: I moved down to Florida from New Jersey when I was 18.

Ari Gold: Were you expecting to get into Latin pop / Gloria Estefan world? Or did Miami change things?

Brendan Buckley: No expectations. I loved punk rock, but I also took drum lessons from Tommy Igoe in high school. He taught me jazz, classical percussion, classical snare, marching rudimental drumming—so a wide range. Then in music school I just wanted to get better. I felt insufficient at the drums. I applied to a bunch of schools and chose Miami. Fell in love with the school and the city. Made friends, played gigs, tried to fix my deficiencies fast—jazz, Latin, funk, pop, session, fusion. I practiced a lot and tried to suck a little bit less every day.

Ari Gold: And now you’re helping people suck less. You teach at Musicians Institute sometimes, right?

Brendan Buckley: I do teach there from time to time. My friends are faculty there. I’ll teach there or privately—here at my studio or on Skype/Zoom. Sometimes when I’m traveling, I’ll pick an off day, get a rehearsal room, teach local students. Anything I’ve gone through that can help someone get past a hurdle—I love passing it along so they don’t have to suffer.

Ari Gold: Drums have become technical on the tech side—sync, click, backing tracks. In 1972 you had a monitor and played loud. Now there’s all this. How does that affect who prospers as a drummer, and your sense of freedom?

Brendan Buckley: Every era is different problems, goals, and accomplishments. Drummers in the ’30s and ’40s had different skill sets—maybe sight-reading, quieter fast tempos, different volume control. In the ’70s, studio drumming got really specific but there weren’t computers. Guys had to be great to two-inch tape, often without a click—no Pro Tools editing. That’s why those drummers excelled: super steady, great tone, three amazing takes in an hour. Jim Keltner, Hal Blaine, Jeff Porcaro—different skill set. Now you don’t have to play more than eight bars if you don’t want to—cut and paste. But different things matter: current drum sounds, recording yourself, playing to click, triggering, Ableton, blending acoustic and electronic. You can honor history—Buddy Rich, Art Blakey, Ringo Starr—but also ask: what are the guys excelling now doing that lets them excel? That’s what you work on.

Ari Gold: I confess I play drums a little. As an air drummer I’m not supposed to. But I always played in bands where it was plug in and play. I never had to deal with click and pre-records. It sounds harsh. It sounds cheesy.

Brendan Buckley: If you’re only in one band, you master those challenges. If you’re freelance and playing different artists every week, you constantly adjust. You develop skill sets for the job. By plopping yourself in a new room every week, you learn what’s necessary—communication, accomplishing the job. I have a close-knit group of guys in LA who do what I do. We share stories: “Have you had this happen?” “How would you approach that?” Advice and encouragement. It helps.

Ari Gold: I hear kids playing—are they super loud on the mic?

Brendan Buckley: No. Are they random kids, or do they belong to you?

Ari Gold: Next door neighbor. I didn’t know how loud my mic is picking it up.

Brendan Buckley: I don’t mind.

Ari Gold: Do you feel you invented any beats? Like a Buckley beat—signature?

Brendan Buckley: I don’t think it’s silly. I think about that a lot. I’m a drummer for hire. I enjoy playing other people’s music perfectly to their liking, but I also want to inject my identity a little—without disrespecting their music. So I’m always finding the line: do I have to be true to classic recordings, or can I play how I feel, or some blend? Sometimes it’s subtle—massaging what they do to work better to my ears. In the studio sometimes I say: “I want to play something that’s never been done.” Lofty, because everything’s been done. But shoot for the stars, land on the moon. I’ll ask: “Can I fool around a little bit?” Depends on the artist: some encourage experimenting; some are like, “Why are we still working on this song? Boom boom cha boom boom cha is the beat.” And I go back. I used to play in a band called Pedestrian with Joel Shearer. If you look up the album Ghostly Life, there are a couple beats I feel like I invented. There’s one called “Hummingbird on a Wire.” It starts with a four-bar drum intro with a weird sound—we got an old Gretsch or Slingerland kit, miked it with maybe four mics, ran the mics through guitar pedals, and I played a beat that sounds a little backwards before the vocals. When I listen now, I’m like: cool, that was kind of different.

Ari Gold: I don’t know if you’re familiar with Alan Myers from Devo, but their cover of “Satisfaction” has one of the most amazing drum parts ever. It shouldn’t work, but it works so well.

Brendan Buckley: Best beat ever. Yeah. When I first moved to LA, I coincidentally befriended Alan Myers. He’s passed away now, but we were friends. I held my fandom back for a while. Then I finally asked: “How did you come up with the beat for ‘Satisfaction’?” He said they were rehearsing in the studio and he’d been listening to a lot of classical percussion—Bartók and things like that. He couldn’t find a beat that worked. He went for a walk around the block, came back, sat down, played that, and that was the beat. They kept it. I love that story.

Ari Gold: That’s the muse. You grind on it, then you get your mind off it—then the answer comes.

Brendan Buckley: I’ve got another story. I was recording drums for Michael Miller’s album I Made You Up. We were cutting songs live: acoustic guitar, vocals, organ, bass, drums, guitar. The keyboardist was Rami Jaffee—Foo Fighters. Mid take I hear him go: “Boring.” Right in the middle. I’m like, dude, you just ruined a good take. But then I thought about it, and he was kind of right. We were playing really simple, predictable singer-songwriter music. So we got funky pedals out. I threw stuff on my drums, played with weird broken sticks, and we tried the same song in a weird herky-jerky way. It was so much hipper. I looked at the singer: is this cool? He’s like, “I love it.” Then we did the rest of the album like that: don’t do the most obvious choice first. Try something different. If it doesn’t work, you can fall back on the obvious choice.

Ari Gold: My brother Ethan Gold—singer-songwriter—does the music for my films. He was saying the same thing: sometimes musicians play what you “should” play and it’s perfect… but you don’t discover something amazing. So he pushes: can we turn it upside down?

Brendan Buckley: Sometimes.

Ari Gold: Talking Heads bass—Tina Weymouth—came out of tuba, so she didn’t play like rock bass. She played melodies like a tuba player, and that’s part of why the band is so good.

Brendan Buckley: Yeah. Makes it super funky. Those records are unassumingly funky. So impressive.

Ari Gold: I try to keep this around 45 minutes. Before we sign off—what wisdom can you drop for people?

Brendan Buckley: A lot of pressure. I have to be wise now.

Ari Gold: You don’t have to be wise. I’m going to listen after this to Pedestrian—Ghostly Life—“Hummingbird on a Wire.” I have hummingbirds outside my window. And I have the Henry Miller phrase: “standstill like a hummingbird.” That feels perfect for drummers—so much intensity, but you have to be in the pocket. What’s your warm-up? How do you get in the right zone?

Brendan Buckley: My warm-up is basically a full day of doing everything I can to play great that evening. I try to get enough sleep. That usually doesn’t happen. But I try. I eat a healthy breakfast. I exercise.

Ari Gold: Even try closing that night?

Brendan Buckley: Oh yeah. You can’t go on stage cold. You can’t go on stage like you just got out of bed. You have to be loose and awake before the first note. I don’t like warming up while the show is happening. If you’re like, “I’ll be ready by song five,” you’re not doing the show a service. So I go to the hotel gym. Jog, stretch. I warm up on a pad sometimes. Jump rope sometimes. I like to go for a walk around the city where I’m playing so it feels different every night for a different audience.

Ari Gold: That’s huge for touring musicians. Some people don’t even know what town they’re in. That’s where depression and drugs can get tempting. Taking a walk—even 20 minutes—connects you.

Brendan Buckley: Yeah. If you go from bus to dressing room to stage to dressing room to bus for 45 days straight, you go cuckoo. Uber and Lyft help—$8 to the center of town, walk around, cappuccino, veggie wrap, come back, you feel like a million bucks. “We’re in St. Louis—let’s do this.” So yeah—everything for the show. My warm-up is the whole day: sleep, food, exercise, positivity, excitement, knowing the songs and changes. Advice: you can’t please everybody. If you’re an artist wearing your heart on your sleeve and you’re offended not everyone loves what you do—you’ll never get 100%. You have to look inside: am I happy with my progress? Track incremental improvements. Don’t chase external adulation—social media, comments, likes. Get it from inside.

Ari Gold: That is fantastic advice. Thank you for taking the time to talk with me and with us. And I’m still trying to figure out how close we live to each other.

Brendan Buckley: I think I heard something.

Ari Gold: Nice to meet you. Maybe we’ll meet at the dog park Sunday.

Brendan Buckley: You got it. Thanks for asking me to do this. This was great.

Ari Gold: Thank you. Cool. On the flip.

Brendan Buckley: Thank you.

This interview originally appeared on Hotsticks.fm.

See more about Brendan Buckley on the official site for Adventures of Power, the world’s greatest (and only) Air Drum Movie!

Enjoyed this session? Explore more from the Interviews Archive.

From Air Drums to Arena Stages

The conversation opens with John Humphrey tracing his path from Oklahoma childhood air-drumming to Rush’s “Tom Sawyer” into formal band training, jazz ensembles, and ultimately rock. He reflects on early influences like Kiss, AC/DC, and Van Halen—and how a love of music long preceded the drum kit itself.

The Foundation of Heavy Music

Humphrey breaks down his role as the backbone behind emotionally charged bands like Seether and The Nixons. He discusses preparation as survival, learning entire albums for auditions, honoring Josh Freese’s original parts, and why solid, unflashy power is what allows angst, melody, and vocals to thrive above the drums.

Family, Legacy, and the Long Game

Beyond touring with Black Sabbath, Hellfest memories, and studio discipline, the conversation turns deeply personal. Humphrey shares the experience of having his son fill in onstage, passing the craft down generationally, and how music remains a source of release, identity, and hope—especially after a year of silence. It’s a portrait of a drummer who values consistency, humility, and readiness above all else.

Watch video version here:

RAW TRANSCRIPT (Pardon the old-school glitches):

Ari Gold: With me is the lovely John Humphrey from Seether. And then my brother Ethan Gold is representing Modern Drummer today—he did all of the music for Adventures of Power: the drum tracks, the producing—and he’s a producer and composer and drum aficionado. So thank you. Thank you both for joining this experience.

John Humphrey: Thanks for having me. It’s good to meet both you guys.

Ari Gold: And me, you as well. The focus is going to be huge on—because you are the star of our hearts on this fine afternoon. And… where are you—central time somewhere?

John Humphrey: Yeah, I’m Central Time Zone. I’m in Oklahoma. Outside Oklahoma City.

Ari Gold: And that’s—you’re from Oklahoma, right? John Humphrey: I am. Yes. Born and raised. And I have two boys, and they’ve been raised here. So this is home for me.

Ari Gold: Oh, nice. Be honest. Did you get into drums through rock or through singing Oklahoma? Be honest.

John Humphrey: Through rock. It was rock, man.

Ari Gold: It was rock. So I haven’t—my brother suggested a very important question for an air drum themed conversation as a conversation starter, which is: what is the song that you air drum to as a child before you play drums—and then now, when you don’t have access to your drums? So it might be two different songs.

John Humphrey: Really, it’s ironic—and I saw the trailer for your movie—it was Tom Sawyer. I mean, when I first got my kit, I had to learn, you know, that bridge section or that middle part, you know, to actually play it live. But I was air drumming the crap out of that thing when I was 12 and 13 years old. And I still—when it comes on the radio—of course I air drum to everything. My parents, my wife can attest to me driving them crazy in the car. I air drum in my car, you know, as well as play them actually. I’m an air drum king, and I have been since I was a kid.

Ethan Gold: At least it wouldn’t keep them up at night if you were air drumming in the middle of the night while your wife is sleeping.

John Humphrey: That’s true—wouldn’t bother them then. I air drum and I actually do tap and make all kinds of noise with my feet, my hands, and you’ll be—you’ll be pleased to know that Neil Peart… you in appearing the air drum movie… but he also told me that he, like all of us, was an air drummer first. And he told me that he started with pillows and magazines. So I guess it’s a little bit more than air and he was hitting something. Maybe that’s why he became the… appear. But yeah, so you’re in good company.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Tom Sawyer is the climactic song in Adventures of Power, so I hope you get a chance to watch it. But so you were—I guess you started as a true musician. No—you could read, like, music. I can’t read music. But you can read music. Rumor has it?

John Humphrey: Yeah. It’s been a long time. So in middle school I started—I was in band. I was in jazz band, concert band, marching band all through high school. I played snare usually in those cases. In jazz band, of course, I played the kit. And so it’s been a long time since I’ve actually, you know, like…

Ari Gold: Which grip did you learn snare— which grip?

John Humphrey: Oh, matched—matched. Yeah, not traditional. I’ve never really played traditional. Yeah.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Okay. And did you know that you wanted to play rock music when you were playing jazz in high school? Or—you’re talking about junior high or high school where…

John Humphrey: Yeah, it was kind of both—middle school, junior high, and then high school. Really, drums and learning, you know, getting into rock music—it all happened at the same time. You know, I’m an ’80s kid, so my mom could appreciate that. I really—I loved music and showed an interest for it as a very little kid, like four or five. I had a little portable record player I used to carry around and listen to music all the time. I just loved it. And so she, you know, trying to figure out maybe where I should go—she got me piano lessons for a few years. And I got some basic theory, music theory out of that. But being a little kid in the late ’70s and ’80s, you know, I got into Kiss as a kid.

Ari Gold: Did you ever—did you ever dress in—oh yeah.

John Humphrey: I did—Halloween. I remember seeing the movie on TV, and I mean, being a kid being seven or eight. And then that band—and it’s fantasy, you know, was just a combination of the perfect world, right? Rock music and fantasy for a kid. But that segued into Van Halen, and AC/DC, and that whole era. So I’m like, taking piano, and I’m like, I’m not interested in this, man. I want to rock. And then drums sort of came naturally.

Ari Gold: Did you ever see this when he played with Rush?

John Humphrey: No, no, I I’ve seen old, you know, bills and posters for I can’t imagine that would be me. I’ve seen some photos online too. And

Ari Gold: that’s a strange matchup. I mean, do just knowing that they toured together and they apparently loved each other as such, right? Yeah, but

John Humphrey: lately different bands and to see and they’re so young and stuff. So cool. Yeah, they like one of the first tours for both bands. I think they toured together.

Ari Gold: Yeah. And so but so you got into into hard, hard rock through the gateway drug of

John Humphrey: Kiss. That’s right. That’s that’s a good way of putting it.

Ari Gold: You were like a Beatles type before before kiss came along? Or what was your jam? Yeah, just

John Humphrey: you know, I grew up on the radio. My parents always had music on and radio. So anything top 40 of the day and popular music I just always heard so yeah, Beatles. I mean, yeah, anything that was just sort of popular on radio at the time. But then from from my age, my friends. It was rock. It was hard rock and I got into Van Halen. ACDC and that whole thing.

Ari Gold: I mean, crazy. You’ve been on tour with with Seether with with Sabbath, right?

John Humphrey: Yeah, yeah, we did a hell fest overseas. Huge festival. Three or four years ago. Yeah, that was amazing. It was Soundgarden was on the bill and Black Sabbath was on the bill. And that was just like a dream come true. A friend of mine is a bass tech for Geezer Butler. So the coolest thing I got to do was to hand geezer his bass, right before one of his songs because I stood next to my tech buddy. That was was Bill Ward

Ethan Gold: on that tour. No.

John Humphrey: A different drummer, the drummer who’s playing with Ozzy now, Tommy can’t What’s his last name? I can’t remember his last name. But no, unfortunately, it wasn’t bill.

Ari Gold: Ethan’s representing Modern Drummer he should know that in the flesh should

Ethan Gold: know that. What yet I know that Brad will go from from Rage Against the Machine also played with Sabbath in there on their last record, but I’ll I’ll do some recon here.

Ari Gold: So, John, I’d love to know, you know, just drum Drum Fans and what brought you to drums? What Why are you from fraternity or the drum cult? Why, why that and guitar if you were turned on

Ethan Gold: Well, right. vadose

John Humphrey: Yes. Cool. Cool photos. Right. Right. That’s right. And Brad Wilk interesting story side story. We toured with audio slaves either toured with audio slave and I got to know Brad, and he’s a huge old school Van Halen fan. So we sort of clicked on that. And I had some bootlegs of old Van Halen shows and stuff so Brett Brad’s awesome, great drummer and great guy. But for me, so back to so piano early on, and then I tried guitar, not electric guitar was a good acoustic guitar. My parents got me. But drums I just wanted to try it. I actually had a neighbor in the, in the neighborhood, a friend who had a kid. And I think I drove him crazy for about a year and a half after school every day going to his house asking if I could plays drums. So I was on his kit. And every day after school, drove him nuts. I was begging my parents for a drum set because I played piano I play guitar. These these are not inexpensive items. I mean, you know instruments are expensive and my parents were like look, we do a piano we’ve done a guitar you’re not doing a drum. So they put me through a lot year and a half of agony. I drove my friend crazy. They finally relented my dad Christmas 1983 got me my first drum set.

Ari Gold: What’s the relenting about? I mean, like, you have to prove something. Was there a specific hoops you had to jump through to prove that you were serious?

John Humphrey: Yeah. So I had auditioned for junior high band And then I was playing percussion there. But all I had at home was like a snare pad and a set of bells because you would play bells also early on and percussion, auxiliary percussion and stuff. And I was in, in band and doing that, and practicing and air drumming but but had a set pair of sticks and practicing in my room, playing on pillows playing on the floor. And like I said, if I wasn’t doing that I was over my friend’s house driving him crazy. So my dad finally figured out okay, maybe he’s going to stick with this. And got me a drum set. You want

Ethan Gold: to give a shout out to your friend right now? With the name of that?

John Humphrey: Yeah, it’s been a long time. His name is Barry Bell. I don’t know if he’ll, there’ll be watching but yeah, it was a childhood friend. He had a drum set. I drove him crazy.

Ethan Gold: It’s always nice to to shout out to the friends or the teachers or somebody who helped us along the way. Sure. Yeah. Actually, somebody asked me to somebody suggested that, that you give that shot up. So I Oh, that was a good idea.

John Humphrey: That’s great. That’s awesome. Yeah.

Ari Gold: So what what’s the what’s more challenge? Because a drummer playing Nixon or playing Seether?

John Humphrey: Gosh, they’re both, you know, stylistically. For me, it’s the same, it’s still the way I play. It’s just sort of the way the music sort of comes through me as far as stylistically. So really, there isn’t much difference other than obviously, the music and the arrangement and in particular songs. But stylistically, I sort of played the same way with both bands.

Ari Gold: Did you get to either

Ari Gold: work directly, or what’s that?

Ethan Gold: Nixon’s what? Just one thing I want to, I was just thinking about, you’re coming into all this through band music and through kiss, and he’s kind of like really energy giving kinds of music. And both Nixon’s and see there are, I would say more like kind of, angsty in different ways, kind of angsty and emotional music. And but it’s interesting, like as a drummer, so you know, the writing whatever’s going on in the songwriting, and the lyrics, there’s this kind of dark expression of kind of emotions coming out. But you’re, they’re bringing this kind of, in both those bands, you’re bringing, like a kind of really solid power to it, I think that’s probably why they both want you, you know, even if you’re splitting your time, or whatever, you know, I’m not sure how you work that out. You know, if everybody wants to talk at the same time, you can talk about that but But you bring a really solid just a kind of, like a very kind of straightforward solid, like, it makes me think of in a way like you think of Oklahoma but it’s just like, you’re you’re there to like provide the foundation in a way that unlike kiss have that same just like straight, like they sort of goofy almost bubblegum songs, but there’s this straight ACBC also famous Yeah, just like solid. And you’re also that kind of just real, powerful use container for in the case of, you know, if you were playing in Kiss, that would be the container for the like, powerful Bubble, bubble gum or whatever. But you’re bringing like, out or you’re just like, it’s like the house that all this kind of like, angst and emotion can live in your, like, the bones of the house. I don’t know, I appreciate that this thing that you do, like with the guys coming in, like all this stuff I need to express and you’re just gonna hold it down for them. Yeah,

John Humphrey: I mean, that’s it, right? I mean, my job as a drummer is to really to be the foundation to be, you know, to be solid to do my, my job sort of, in that sense. But I do, there’s an aggressiveness to both the music that I you know, it’s a visceral thing, it’s a physical thing. And boy, having not been on tour for, you know, a year and a half. I feel angst. You know, I do practice at home. And both my kids are also in music, my oldest is a drummer, and it’s very inspiring to me, even on a daily basis to go in there and woodshed but, but it’s something that is a release for me, and I get that through, you know, playing with both bands musically, it’s definitely an emotional release. But thank you, I do try to be a solid, you know, Foundation to support the music to play for the music. I mean, obviously, we talked about rock but you know, as it went on, and I’ve always liked powerful drummers that just had a style to them, like cozy Powell or, or liberty Devito. He played for Billy Joel. He just was an amazing, powerful drummer with you know, very tasteful parts and were musical and he framed the songs because both the bands I play with, I mean will in all bands, I guess. Generally it’s about the supporting the music and letting the melody kind of ran through and you want to be the solid foundation and at least that’s what I tried to be you know,

Ari Gold: well, but everyone has that philosophy. So I think Ethan’s right to be enough that comparison. I,

Ethan Gold: but it’s yeah, it’s, I mean, I hear it with you’re growing up with Kiss and ACDC you mentioned those are like kind of like your first and I hear that in your in your playing, even though the bands are much more like kind of bloody sort of emotional type bands, you know. So anyway, it’s one thing I’m curious about just as a working you know, as a working musician how you negotiate if you’re an active member of multiple bands like does that become a thing where they can’t tour or do or do they have like a understudy? You know, who when you’re like, I’m sorry, how do you like how do you work that out? Like politically between between the Nixon’s and cedar?

John Humphrey: Yeah, no, that’s a great question. Because before the pandemic, you know, see that would be coming off a tour and then you know, the Nixon’s would maybe do a few shows, and the Nixon’s didn’t play for like, you know, 12 or 15 years. I mean, a long time we the band, sort of, we went our separate ways, and then reunited in 2017. Suddenly, you know, the last three or four years been trying to sort of balance it out. So you mentioned understudy, my 21 year old son, Jackson, amazing drummer. He he’ll fill in for the Nixons when I can’t when there’s a conflict in the schedule.

Ethan Gold: Work for Led Zeppelin.

John Humphrey: Yeah, right, right. I mean, that’s amazing. Yeah, it’s funny.

Ethan Gold: It’s just a beautiful thing for you as a musician, and as a father. That’s, oh, yeah, really gratifying.

John Humphrey: Absolutely. And the first time he did it, he was 15. He had only been playing maybe two years. And he got up at a huge outdoor amphitheater here in Oklahoma City. To do the last song of the sets either always, typically closes the show with a song called remedy. And I told Jackson to learn it, and you’re going to get up and play with the band. And he did in front of 10,000 people. And he just, he killed it. Like he had been doing it his whole life. And he and my, my buddies are there, we’re all grown men crying, and it is the sort of experience is watching my kid up there playing. But then now here, it’s become a situation where, you know, see, there’s going to go back on tour and Dixon’s have some shows, and Jackson’s already filled in on a couple and He will fill in on a couple more this year. And it works out and you know, we keep it in the family, literally. Yeah.

Ethan Gold: So that’s very medieval of you.

Ari Gold: I want to there’s a fan fan. Then, Melissa, who’s asked what’s your favorite saving cedar song? What you know, Shawn, do you song that you just love playing every time it starts your site?

John Humphrey: Well, yeah, the start the show. It’s a song. For a long time that started the set. It’s the first song on the first album was called gasoline. And for the longest time, it was the song that sort of set the barometer for the night. And it’s a fun song for me. The first album, it’s up disclaimer was the first album, Josh freeze was a studio drummer on that album, I joined after that album and have been with them ever since. So I have sort of this unique outside perspective of I’m a fan of that album, I had to learn that or I chose to learn that entire album for my audition. And I’m just a fan of of that album. And it’s a different experience. It’s I’m not the one who actually recorded it. So gasolines always a fun one. For me live it’s always been like a set the tone for the show. And it’s like one of the but yeah, recording you absolutely absolutely don’t try to overplay and like do a bunch of crap that wasn’t there to begin with.

Ethan Gold: It’s just being the guy who got Josh freeze parts. That’s a that’s a that’s a good position to be in. Oh, yeah. Those of you listening he’s like, you know, he’s one of this generation. He’s like, one of the studio kind of go to guys Yeah, man.

John Humphrey: He’s like our generations how Blaine or something?

Ethan Gold: Yes, exactly. Play. Yeah. Devo. Now, I think fairly consistent, right? He’s just he’s like on a brick. He’s on many records. You’ve heard the Raven you know, he’s one of those guys

John Humphrey: just incredible and solid tasteful drummer and we’ve crossed paths a few times over the years and great guy just a killer drummer. So yes, I mean, just to be able to try to replicate those parts and to have learned that album for the for the my audition even going all the way back. It was amazing. Yeah, Josh did a killer job. A new song on the new album is called wasteland is one I’ll be looking forward to playing live. We haven’t played it live yet. It’s just a song on the new album that it’s like probably my favorite song right now and I’ve been practicing it and just kind of getting ready and imagining what it’s going to be like to be on stage and finally, play some of the songs in, in this case wasteland for the first time, you know, in front of a crowd.

Ari Gold: And you have a drum sponsor, right? Like,

John Humphrey: yeah. Yeah, so I’m with just joined W FL three, which is Bill Ludwig’s company, William F. Ludwig the third. And he personally contacted me and asked me, I’d been with Ludwig for years. And anybody who’s sort of familiar with Ludwig, they were, you know, the family was bought out years ago and bought the name. And so Bill started a company several years back in W FL three and he invited me to join the company. He’s so amazing. Such a great guy. I’m really excited. So y’all everybody.

Ari Gold: William, actual bill.

John Humphrey: Right. Right. Because I I know him as Bill. I call him Bill, you know?

Ari Gold: Probably noncompete I’m sure Yeah.

John Humphrey: Right. Right. Ludwig. Yeah, exactly.

Ari Gold: But so. So that’s, are you playing those terms on the new record?

John Humphrey: Actually, I joined him after we had recorded the album. So So yeah, I’d use my Ludwigs. And some different I have a Tom of Bill brass snare I use for the last two albums. Just sort of my buddy. It’s actually my buddies bill, brass snare, that thing weighs a ton. And he’s in Kansas City, and he will either drive down and give it to me, and I’ll fly to Nashville or drive to Nashville with it. And it’s a snare drum I’ve used on the last two albums, it’s just a gunshot. It’s an awesome snare. But, you know, we kind of have different things in the studio that we use that you know, for personick reasons. But the W FL stuff is it’s amazing. Sounds great. I’ll be looking forward to tracking with that that kit next time, you know, yeah.

Ethan Gold: Are there any songs that from the catalog that scare you? That that you you’re like, this one’s always a challenge for me to get through? Do you have do you have things that get your nerves up like that?

John Humphrey: Well, I think it’s going back to disclaimer, we were it’ll be the 20th anniversary of disclaimer. Next year later this year next year, claimer one year disclaimer, which again, is Josh freeze. So we were talking about maybe playing that album in its entirety. We haven’t decided you know what capacity that will be. We do a live stream or maybe a show or something. But there’s a song on the album I had to learn when I did my audition. It was actually the first song I did with the band. It’s called pride. And it’s a song that changes type signatures. It goes from a three four thing back to a 443444. It’s a genius parts a great part. And Shawn played the riff when I walked in the room, we had barely shook hands and introduced and I think he had already auditioned three or four guys, it was just done with the shit. And he was like, I’m gonna play this riff. He either gets it he’s gonna be on or he’s not. And it was the first thing he threw out. Luckily, I stayed on. And but it’s a tricky song, man. So if we do that album, again, in its entirety, I’m going to have to do some homework for sure.

Ari Gold: So that was that like your audition? Quick? Basically, can you refer to for for without without a key? Was that yeah, that

John Humphrey: was? Yeah, I mean, there were like three or four songs I was supposed to learn and I can’t remember. It’s again, the songs called pride. I don’t know if that song was. I learned the whole album. Anyway, I was just prepared for any song they threw out and thank God, because they threw out. Obviously, Sean throughout pride, like from the get go, like, are you going to keep up? Let’s see, buddy. Let’s see what you can do. And that’s a tricky song. So we did that song in its entirety. I mean, that album, you know, like I said, I’ll have some homework to do.

Ethan Gold: You were you were like Robert Trujillo coming in, say, Hey, want to do battery. Right and to do like, maybe she can destroy or something’s like exactly. I don’t know if we can play battery. Exactly. You know, it’s it’s a case for being prepared for do the work. You show up. Like any, you know, working musician, I don’t know how many people on this on this live stream are musicians or just people in their regular lives. But you know, showing up to that interview, prepared, knowing your stuff, doing your homework, and here you are, almost 20 years later. None of that happens if you don’t walk into that, knowing that record backwards and forwards.

John Humphrey: right for you. Yeah, thank you. I thank you my guitar player Corys like, you know, fail to prepare, prepare to fail. You know, it’s over the Yeah, you know, Mantra because you know, even do During this last album, Shawn had sent us a bunch of demos, songs for us to learn, and kind of get prepared work on parts. And because we were going to track the drums with, like, with like, it was like 21 songs and three or four days, so we were going to track like six or seven songs a day. So I had to do my homework even to track this last album. So it’s things like that. Yeah, I’m very much I have to prepare. I’m OCD about that stuff. Man. I have to do my homework, and I have to be prepared. I don’t like walking into situations. And now what are we doing? What’s going on? You know, I just don’t wing it too. Well, yeah. Yeah.

Ethan Gold: Some people you know, every people are different. There can be there are personalities that love that. Yeah. But if you’re coming into a, an outfit that’s already like a machine that’s already operating, you know, you better walk in knowing your stuff. And then and then you can start adding your own flavor after that, but like they don’t, right. They don’t want to be confused when you come in.

John Humphrey: Yeah, yeah, a lot of guys can improvise on the spot. And, and I can appreciate that. And I think there’s definitely music styles and bands. I mean, maybe that fits better with it. I feel, especially with Seether. You want those those parts solid, and I just like to know, you know, kind of my situation.

Ari Gold: And you, you will normally one in every year, or whatever it happened a third of the year, you’d be so rusty, we’re all. So what

Ari Gold: well that like, one hour is you can get this getting feedback Hold on. That might be its downside. But you would have to do a lot of rehearsing to catch up with yourself. Because that audience pressure I think jacks up whatever you’re rehearsing. It just sinks deeper into your bones when you have people watching.

John Humphrey: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it’s one like you said, one live show is like five rehearsals or something. And so. But again, I guess having my kids man, it’s great inspiration. I mean, when you have a 21 year old in the music room, just shredding. And you just you walk in there going, Okay, now, what did you just do? Show me what you just do you know what you just did, that kind of, it’s inspiring. It’s, it’s, you know, and again, like I said, the music is, especially with these bands, it’s a physical thing. And I like to have that release, let that emotion out. And I get angsty, if I don’t have it. So I’ve tried to keep the chops up and things are looking to slowly ramp up, we’re talking about shows at the end of July, August, September. So it’s, it’s like coming back fast, you know, all kinds of things are starting to happen and, and I’ve got to get in shape. So I’m trying to get in there and woodshed and really get caught up, you know,

Ari Gold: this is where airdropping can be your friends. Anytime a day or night you can air drum and as ad so I’m going to try to back away from that door see if that stops feedback. As the trainer says in in advances of Power Air drumming is a double workout because you which is true as as, as the Guinness World Record holder, I can attest this, that you when you you don’t have anything to bounce off of. So you have to use double muscle power to back up. And so like if you when I drum, I can drum you know, for a long time and not get tired but if I’m air drumming, I wiped and wiped out in 10 minutes if I’m doing like full bore, you know like double bass drum and and yeah, you know, you can you can really jack up your your workout if you take the drums away to say

John Humphrey: absolutely man and and for years my wife and I we lived in apartments, you know, we had a house, smaller house just to NAV even a music room or a place to set up my drums. So to work on music to prepare, prepare for the studio, maybe for a tour, I would have to air drum, listen to music and practice just you know air drumming or padding on my legs or, or what have you and I can work up a sweat air drumming. Absolutely. I can do it. And i i I still do it. I still do it. You know, it’s just sort of habit. I listen to a song and I kind of listen to what’s going on and I’m trying to work it out in my mind. And next thing I know my arms are going my feet are going you know

Ari Gold: have you ever had any My dealings with MusiCares granny organization that we’re supporting with the movie. I don’t know if you’ve known people who’ve been rescued by it. But for those who don’t know, adventures, the power and the modern Modern Drummer connection where we are raising money for MusiCares, which is supporting musicians in need, which is really, especially right now, so much, you know, gig gig, it’s having vanished over the last year and change. There’s a lot of people hurting. And so I want everyone to know that anyone who watches Adventures of power on Amazon Prime, even though it’s free on Amazon Prime, we get a little money and we send it over to MusiCares. So please, sports awesome. Be write it write a nice review, if you feel so inclined. And that, that helps people hear the movie, but it also helps MusiCares. So I know people whose lives have literally been saved, you know, in their, you know, getting cleaned programs. And so it’s a beautiful, it’s a beautiful thing.

John Humphrey: So yeah, it’s awesome. That’s awesome.

Ari Gold: So for me, I think we’ll we’ll wrap up. But I’d love to just give you an opportunity to shout out to anything that you care about on planet earth or in music that you feel that we haven’t talked about. Is there anything you want to say now that you, you have all of our attention?

John Humphrey: Just just thank you for having me, man, I appreciate it. I enjoyed talking to you guys. And again, it’s the power of music, this, you know, thing we’ve just met, and so many things that we’ve shared experiences in our childhood or music, talking about Tom Sawyer, or how we got into drummer how I got into drumming? It is it’s the beauty of music man, it’s my solace. It’s I you know, listen to it, I wouldn’t know what to do. If I didn’t have it in my life. I don’t know what would have happened to me. If I hadn’t gotten into music, I have no idea. I wasn’t cut out for nine to five. And you know, I honestly, I don’t know what would have happened to me. Music saved my life in so many ways. And it’s wonderful to see my children get caught up into it and get bitten by that bug and just have a talent for it and a passion for it. And it makes me feel proud that I guess it’s in the gene somewhere. It’s really legit. And my kids have gotten it. And music is a powerful thing. And it’s gotten me through this last year. And I’m very blessed man to have the band that I’m with and the both bands and to be able to play music for a living and do this. And I know a lot of us have it’s been a tough time this last year and a half this last year, but I’m very hopeful that shows are on their way back. And we can all once again, commune and, you know, share music live and experience that all together, you know.

Ari Gold: Yeah, Indeed, indeed. Well, thank you so much for chatting with us. And for those who want to watch the movie. In general, you can go to air drummer.com. And there’s links to watch it and also to watch all the other interviews that we’ve done with other wonderful people. And anyone who wants to watch it right now with us. We’re doing a watch party on amazon prime. So if you go to adventures to power.com/prime, that’ll go to a watch party thing. And then I will hit play on my end. And then everyone wants to sit together. It’s sort of the lead digital thing. But that’s going to happen. So

Ethan Gold: good movie for the tour bus. Absolutely.

Ari Gold: And yeah, say hello to Oklahoma where I’ve never been

John Humphrey: great. Tom has just flown over it right here. It’s flat. It’s very flat. It’s very flat. But if it

Ari Gold: and I grew up in San Francisco, so like anything less than a hill like this scene. So

John Humphrey: it’s awesome. There’s a lot of great people here and we love music man, a lot of especially rock music, and we always loved

Ari Gold: asking Oklahoma question because I always felt like it has a little bit of Texas and as a little bit of a, you know, the central like the heartland thing. Right? Do both of those things there or is it really more heartland? Do you do you feel the Texas you know, influence of the your southern neighbor

John Humphrey: Yeah, I think definitely. There’s also obviously we’re known for country music right, you know, huge country artists premiere and Garth Brooks. But, you know, there’s a lot of talent here always has been, you know, Eric Clapton’s band from in the 70s Leon Russell, you know from Oklahoma. They were from Tulsa Eric Clapton span. You know, Flaming Lips Absolutely. Exactly. Always been talent and not just country music, and we’re right on the crossroads, you know, 35 and I feel Woody, and when I was a kid all the concerts used to come through here and and a lot of great shows and that’s kind of a cool thing. And we’ve always supported music. And yeah, Oklahoma’s great man, great people and good place to live and to grow up

Ethan Gold: Is Rival Sons from Oklahoma?

John Humphrey: I don’t think so. King of Leon are from here.

Ari Gold: I can’t hear you, Ethan. Oh, unmuting

Ethan Gold: because I think that was causing the feedback. So I’m muting half via words. Anyway. John, it’s been great. Oh, okay, so Well, I gave a shout out to a Long Beach band, I guess. Or something. But anyway, um, John is great to meet you.

Ari Gold: Great to meet you. Yeah, we’ll see you out on the road. If you’re in Los Angeles. You you have you have a free coffee or tequila shot your choice. Okay. On the beach with with a surfboard as a prop. Nice.

This interview originally appeared on Hotsticks.fm.

See more about John Humphrey on the official site for Adventures of Power, the world’s greatest (and only) Air Drum Movie!

Enjoyed this session? Explore more from the Interviews Archive.

In this session, we go far beyond technique. We talk about the unseen work: the discipline of practice, the humility of the studio, the difference between chops and feel, and why music education isn’t optional — it’s a lifeline. Todd moves effortlessly from hilarious tour-life truth to deeply tender reflections on his father’s legacy, Brian Wilson’s otherworldly musical mind, and the rare warmth and integrity of Neil Peart’s orbit. He’s a monster player, yes — but what struck me most is his humanity: the way he treats rhythm like a moral craft, and groove like something you earn through attention.

This conversation reminded me that “power” isn’t volume. It’s presence. And Todd has it in every beat.”

The Power of Feel

Todd Sucherman is a virtuoso by any technical measure, but this conversation lives in the spaces between the notes. We talk about the long road of becoming — from air drumming on beds and pillows to holding down one of the most demanding seats in rock history. Todd breaks down the discipline of practice, the humility required to serve a song, and why “feel” isn’t something you can fake or fast-track.

Lineage, Legacy, and the Work

We explore the musical lineage that shaped him — a big-band drummer father, a house full of records, and a life steeped in rhythm long before the spotlight arrived. Todd reflects on his time with Brian Wilson, the quiet genius of hearing everything, and the profound generosity and integrity of Neil Peart’s world. Along the way, we dig into music education, creative responsibility, and the idea that rhythm isn’t just a skill — it’s a lifelong practice, earned through attention, patience, and care.

Watch video version here:

RAW TRANSCRIPT (Pardon the old-school glitches):

Ari Gold: Ladies and gentlemen, uh, who are here early, just so you know, we have a little bit—California has a little bit of the power outage situation that Texas had recently—and so our live stream on multiple channels is going to be postponed for a week. But those of us on Instagram were able to do this on our phones, so we thought we would say hi. Well, without power, um, yeah, that was the story of Texas a little over a week ago. We were okay here, but, uh, I felt like the sword of Damocles was over our heads—at any moment it could be lights out. Yeah, but it looks like you got power there.

Todd Sucherman:
Oh, we have power here, and because I play the character of Power in Adventures of Power, I always have power.

Ari Gold:
You’re never without. Never, never without. Um, so, uh, well, we’ll talk for five minutes because we’re here, right? I’m here. I got a bottle of water. You know what else we’re gonna do? We’re gonna have a party now. We’re gonna have a mini party. I have a costume—a piece of the costume from Adventures of Power. I have my Adventures of Power headband somewhere here. I—I’m already, those of you who don’t know, I’m, uh, on the Modern Drummer Instagram, um, but, um, normally—and higher back—um, I am in the Guinness World Records for air drumming, and I made the movie Adventures of Power, which Neil Peart was in. And, um, when we released the film, I also, um, punked Todd by going to a drum—I think it was a NAMM performance or something—and I went on stage and performed as Power air drumming. Can you guess what year that was?

Todd Sucherman:
2009.

Ari Gold:
2006.

Todd Sucherman:
No, pretty sure—I’m like 99 sure—there’s 2006. It’s possible because I was playing that character for a while before I even had made the movie. So that was the Hollywood drum show—the Hollywood vintage drum show. It was, uh, and yet because I had moved from LA to Austin in, uh, December of 2005. So it was still kind of weird, like, hey, I don’t live here anymore, you know, uh, at that time for me. And then some weird guy in the orange jumpsuit is air drumming on stage when you’re supposed to be—you did a Blue Collar Man, I think it was, right?

Ari Gold:
I did. Yes, I did Blue Collar Man because, you know, my character in the movie works in a copper mine. It seemed appropriate. Um, so, um, but yeah, I, uh, you know, maybe we can do the one question. Yeah, In the Air Tonight. Yes, people have seen the movie. So, um, the question that I was asking before we got on the phone—now we will do the one question, then we’ll come back in one week to do, like, a more in-depth chat that also is on YouTube and all the other places. Uh, tech problems for those who are just showing up. Perhaps you could tell these lovely people about, um, your experience with Spinal Tap because we, as you said, we share a colleague, and Michael McKean, who’s in Adventures of Power and is in Spinal Tap. So what was your Spinal Tap experience?

Todd Sucherman:
Well, I mean, for me, those guys are obviously—they’re a firing squad of comedy, yet they don’t laugh a lot. Like, they make each other—they say the funniest things and, you know, that Christopher Guest will go, you know, like—that’s him laughing—and sort of like that. But they’re all—they all want to play. They all can play, and they all want to be great. Um, and they were all just just lovely, lovely people. Yeah, the first time I worked with them was just over 20 years ago now, but, um, just wonderful people. They really—they actually care. They want to play and sing as well as—as they can. Um, and it’s funny—I hadn’t had any communication with Michael since around 2009, the last time I played with him. But I thought that he was so amazing in Better Call Saul. It was about maybe three, three years ago—three, four years ago. Uh, I thought, you know what? He was unbelievable. I couldn’t believe he wasn’t showered with Golden Globes and Emmys and stuff. I thought his performance was as good as anything anyone’s ever done on the screen. And I wrote him an email, and I went and played the show. It came back, and he sent me a lovely email back like that. So yeah, yeah—lovely guy.

Ari Gold:
Yeah, he’s a—he, um— I teased him occasionally on Twitter. That’s where our relationship is right now. Really real quick—there was something someone posted like, who’s the most handsome man who’s ever been on screen? And I posted one of my photos of him from Adventures of Power, and he wrote back and said, “Good boy,” because I play—I play his son, so it seemed appropriate. Can I geek out on one drum thing real quick? You mentioned In the Air Tonight. I have something very special here. Um, although I am a Pearl drum endorser, uh, I do have this—what I call the cantaloupe monstrosity—back there. Those are 1978 Premiers, which that is the exact same era drums that Phil Collins recorded In the Air Tonight. A lot of people think of—because he’s been Gretsch since ’83—he was Premier 1975 through 1982. So all those records, uh, you know, Lamb Lies Down to Broadway through Abacab—those were, uh, when he was playing for Peter Gabriel, and Peter Gabriel 3, which is kind of where I think the sound that he used on In the Air Tonight was developed by playing on, uh, Peter Gabriel’s record. When they were like, let’s do it. Let’s try our whole record with no cymbals, no hi-hat, no crash, no—no. Jerry Marotta played most of that record. I think Phil played two songs on that. I think he played, um, No Self Control and, uh, Intruder. And I believe they—they stumbled upon that—the backwards or the gated reverb thing—by mistake. Hugh Padgham was a producer, and he was just kind of hitting buttons, and all of a sudden they were getting sounds, and they thought, what’s that? So happy accident with Phil playing—or with Jerry Marotta playing—it depends on who you ask. Yeah. By the way, Tony—Tony just texted, uh, from Modern Drummer—just texted me. It was like maybe you guys just keep going. Should we just roll it? And then we’ll—I’m happy to talk. I’m like I said, I got a bottle of water and a bottle of water. That’s rock and roll lifestyle, man. But the bar is in the house. Like, I keep this, uh—so you’re, um—you live in Texas. You have, like, a—do you have horses? What’s a drummer’s life when he Texas?

Todd Sucherman:
I don’t have a cowboy hat. I don’t have, uh, horses. Um, I have a cat, um, and a daughter, and that’s—that’s enough for now. Um, but yeah, I moved—my wife and I moved to Austin, um, 15 years ago seeking—seeking a better life until weeks ago, and then it was like, maybe not.

Ari Gold:
Yeah, yeah. Until—

Todd Sucherman:
Until three weeks ago. Um, until they decided that there’s no power in the state of Texas. You know, it doesn’t matter that, you know, it’s 114 degrees here for 90 days in a row, and everyone’s cranking their air conditions—air conditioners—there’s plenty of power then. But, uh, dip the temperature to nine and it seems to make the power go like that. Who knows?

Ari Gold:
Yeah, well everything froze—the pipes froze and the gas lines apparently.

Todd Sucherman:
Yeah, I mean, it’s basically—basically take Miami, cover it with hockey arena ice, then dump snow on it for about five days and make it nine degrees for about 10 days and see how that works.

Ari Gold:
Yeah. Sexy stuff. Good times. Yeah. Um, so you—so you’re Texas now. You were raised in Chicago, right?

Todd Sucherman:
Correct.

Ari Gold:
And your father was like a big band drummer, is that right?

Todd Sucherman:
Yeah. I’m like, Mike—yeah—I’m sorry. Did he play like Buddy Rich style? My dad was more—he was more of a groover. Like, if you’re hip to like Dave Tough—Davey Tough—he was like a quarter-note pulse swing guy. He wasn’t like a technician, uh, like Buddy or a showman like—like Krupa. Uh, he was—he was kind of a pocket player. He had the sweetest buzz roll, press roll I’ve ever heard anybody do. Um, but yeah, he put himself through medical school playing drums. Um, and boy, I think he started college in like ’38 or ’39. So my dad was 50 when I was born. Uh, so yeah, he—he put himself through med school playing drums, and then he sort of had a dual life where he had a practice in the day and for like close to 19 years he was one of the house drummers at the Chez Paree in Chicago, which was like the Cotton Club. And that’s where all the big—you know, like Sammy Davis Jr. or Liberace or Joey Lewis or Sophie Tucker and all these like old-time Senior Wences—you know—all sorts of crazy stuff went down there. And he was one of the the rotating guys, uh, in the house band there for nearly 20 years. And, you know, he passed away when I was 22, and one of the questions I wish I could ask him is: How did you do that and survive on so little sleep for so long?

Ari Gold:
Yeah. What do you think, carrot juice?

Todd Sucherman:
Probably. I mean, there—there wasn’t—uh—[Laughter]—it wasn’t the ’80s, if you know what I mean. Uh, it was the—the ’50s. There’s sort of a different—uh—different things going on back then, right? Um, so, uh, yeah, I also—I also—I know eventually we could talk about sticks or no sticks. No, someone asked me what kind of air drumsticks I used. There’s also the sticks with the River Sticks band that you’re in, which we could talk about. But I also want to know about you playing with Brian Wilson.

Ari Gold:
Okay. What do you want to know? Well, I mean, he is—you know—he seems to have descended from upon—from upon high—onto the planet to write songs. But I would imagine that playing with him, working with him, you know, you’re dealing with a guy who’s got his—his ups and downs. And I don’t know what you feel comfortable saying, but what was it like?

Todd Sucherman:
No, I mean, the incredible thing about Brian is, you know, once you try to—you know—initially I was very intimidated because here is a individual who is also known for, uh, you know, peculiar behavior or being eccentric or whatnot. But he changed the face of 20th century music and—and sort of almost single-handedly was the architect of the quintessential California dream. So, uh, that is a pretty heavy thing. But you just realize he’s just kind of a—he’s just a guy. He’s like a Saint Bernard. He wants to clown around and have some fun if he’s feeling—yeah, there you go.

Ari Gold:
I started surfing. Why you guys started surfing, you know, uh—uh—guy planning. Sorry, I just had to pull up the surfboard because—no, but the—the funny thing about Brian is he—he really does hear everything. And, you know, I’ve just seen him like—you know—the band’s rehearsing and, “Hey Brian, what’s the trouble part?” “The first note of, uh, California Girls—C flat”—like that, you know. And it’s a weird note if you ever listen to the beginning. There’s a really weird low trumpet note that doesn’t sound like it belongs in the chord, but it’s one of those things that makes that what it is. And when you hear a band that doesn’t quite get all the chords, you hear something and it—it’s not right—kind of makes your teeth hurt a little bit. He has notes and things in there that are extraordinarily complex that very few people can figure out the right voicings for stuff. Um, but he hears everything. I once saw him write an original piece and he had the whole band around and he doled out parts four bars at a time starting from the low vocals all the way up to the high vocals. And it started out like, what? It’s a weird Jackson Pollock painting or something. And then all of a sudden he starts adding the high notes and there’s the sun poking out from the clouds. It’s wow. Absolutely extraordinary. Wow. So, um, and you—he ended up singing for—on a record for you and your wife. Did I—did I imagine that?

Todd Sucherman:
No. Um, when Taylor Mills—my wife—when I produced her first record, this was back in 2007, uh, we got Brian to kind of lend, uh, his harmonies in—in a vocal blend. And then, uh, and I got Tommy Shaw to help out on one song. So we each sort of got our big boss man to—to come in and give us a hand with the—the record, which was a thrill. I mean, to have Brian Wilson like just lay a little—little harmony onto your record is—that’s, um—well, dig dig this. Uh, you know—do you know, uh, Our Prayer from, uh, Smile? You know that piece of music?

Ari Gold:
I don’t. You know, I’ve—I’ve smiled. I never gave it up. Yeah. That Smile’s the whole universe. I know. Oh, and they’re people who like—I feel like they all become—they become psychotic when they go into the Smile and the Smiley Smile and—

Todd Sucherman:
Well, check—a good place just to start with that, actually, and work your way back is check out the DVD, uh, Brian Wilson, um, uh, California Dreamer. There’s a great documentary that’s lovingly done about Smile, and then the second disc is, uh, it was his current band at that time in 2004 playing Smile live. That’s a great place to start because you can see—you can see like there’s the triangle hit, there’s an oboe that comes in. It was really filmed well. Um, so that’s a good place to start because you can see—you can see like there’s the triangle hit, there’s an oboe that comes in. It was really filmed well. Um, so that’s a good place to start and—and go back. But—but we had Brian and his band, uh—it’s just an a cappella like a Bach chorale, uh, start, uh, our wedding. Uh, having Brian Wilson the band sing Our Prayer to begin, uh, our wedding ceremonies—friggin—you know—couldn’t imagine that when I was in high school.

Ari Gold:
Yeah. Pretty good. Pretty good. Not bad. Um, so, um, well how do you—so you said you—what do you play now? Are the drums—yeah, do you say Pearl? No, no—actual drums. Yes, I do know. I just—I just had my 21st anniversary of Pearl. I played DW air drums. You look—if you look Branches of Power there’s—there’s one scene with us with a stool, uh, that Power sits in. Normally he doesn’t use this stool, but it is a DW stool. Yeah. Not even acrylics, just—uh— but no, sorry, I talked over you. What did—what did you say?

Todd Sucherman:
No, no. I was—so much. I just had my—my 21st, uh, anniversary, uh, with Pearl drums.

Ari Gold:
Nice. So, and they’re about to have their 75th anniversary next month.

Ari Gold:
Oh okay. So there’s gonna be some online, uh, Pearl partying happening, uh, before too long. Good. And so who—who has been your biggest influence other than I suppose your father? Or—and I’d love to hear if you want to share anything about how—sure. I mean—well too—like how did your style form?

Todd Sucherman:
You know, my father was a big band jazz drummer. My mother was an actress who could also play a bit of piano and sing. Um, and I was the youngest of three. Uh, my older brother Paul gravitated to piano when he was a kid. Um, it was clear that I was going to be a drummer from the time I was a baby. And the middle brother, Joel, said, “Well, I’m going to play bass.” So I grew up playing with my brothers as a rhythm section under the tutelage of—of our dad. We also grew up in the era of rock, so there was that. Um, and the cool thing about being the baby in that situation is my brothers would meet older musicians and my dad knew so there’s always music playing in the house. You know, whether it was Led Zeppelin or Count Basie or Kiss or Aerosmith or Parliament Funkadelic or—what—Miles Davis. Like, it didn’t matter. There was always music playing. And then those guys would work with older musicians and befriend older musicians, so that opened up a whole other world of influences. My brother’s coming home with records and, you know, I mean, I have very vivid, vivid images of, you know, like my brother Joel coming home with Genesis Seconds Out. What’s that? You know, you see the album cover—let’s put it on, you know. Uh, it was a great way to grow up like that. And we had instruments and stereos in every room. So like I’d go to a friend’s house and I’d look around and go, “Where the hell are your instruments? Like, how can you live like this? You know, what’s the matter with you people?”

Ari Gold:
Yeah. I mean, the thing is—I mean, this is something that I really connected with Neil Peart about, um, was music education. And we, um—actually you donated a drum to our fundraiser. We—we reopened a music program in, uh, Jersey City at a public school and we raised enough money to completely—you know—the program had been terminated, um, and we were able to reopen it. And you know, the idea that there are kids growing up without playing music—to those who play music—does seem insane. It’s hard to fathom. And being the—the lucky recipient of a great, uh, junior high and high school music programs and—and band directors, uh—it’s—I can’t imagine not having that.

Todd Sucherman:
Yeah. It’s—it’s as important as everything. It’s math, it’s science. There’s—there’s been studies that—that kids can excel, you know, as their brains are formulating by—by playing music. And I—I don’t understand that. And it’s—I saw a great meme where, you know, if you want this and there’s a beautiful symphony hall of, you know, candelabras and you have to have this, and there’s a picture of a classroom with kids with violins. It’s as simple as that. If you want that down the road, well, yeah, it’s pretty simple when you talk it through like that.

Ari Gold:
Yeah. I always think about people who, you know—older generation people—who complain about hip-hop and rap music and—and then they don’t look at the fact that our country has stopped supporting music education for kids. So no one knows how to play instruments. So they do what they can—they make up words. Um, but I don’t think it’s a coincidence that hip-hop formed, um—or the—the early—the early guys doing hip-hop in the ’70s in New York—they formed like three years after the music programs were cut from the schools in New York City. Kids who were learning trumpet and you know all the drums—what—all these other instruments—they had no outlet for their musical kind of drive because they had no education, and then they started rapping, you know.

Todd Sucherman:
You know, I—I had, uh, I had a bit of a Grammy rant. I—I try to keep my socials, uh, positive and educational and whatnot, but when I saw the Grammys a year ago, I posted—in 1986—I said, “Hey, you remember that time when Buddy Rich played with Tony Williams and played with Stanley Clarke and Freddie Hubbard and, uh, like—yeah, I remember because that’s what they used to televise at the Grammys.” And there’s this whole performance of all these jazz greats. And where the Grammys have gone now—uh, although they’ve been great supporters of MusiCares—I don’t want to dump on them, but it’s a spectacle show now. It’s not an awards—when I was a kid I used to like to see, you know, the best recorded classical, you know, and there’s some guy from Austria coming down and accepting his award—he was the best engineer. Now all those are given—it’s earlier in the evening—and it’s—it’s—it’s—it may as well be Solid Gold or—you know—uh, it’s a big award show because let’s face it—you know—the Pepsi and whatnot—they—they’ll pay big money for that. But I said, “There’s not one thing I saw last night that would make a kid want to pick up a trumpet or a trombone or a violin or anything.” Oh, you might want to be a dancer or a celebrity—a star—but not a musician. And music’s biggest night—that—that—that really got to me. And my—my post was shared by like Stanley Clarke and, you know, all these people saw this post. And it made me feel good because those guys—they got the chance to be on TV, you know. I said that—that is—that is something that is denied to, uh, the musicians now and the viewers now. I—you know—I saw Al Jarreau singing Blue Rondo a la Turk with Art Pepper—who’s Art Pepper? Well I know who he is because I saw it. All these things—I—I got to see when music was—was—was televised. So I think that’s part of it. Part of it too—why is a kid going to pick up an oboe if he never gets to see one? Mm-hmm. Sorry, I didn’t mean to go dark.

Ari Gold:
No, no. I mean, it’s—it’s true and it’s a—I mean the whole culture has—I mean we could have, uh, we could have a big discussion about what’s happening in the culture. Let’s—but let’s, um, let’s pivot. Let’s pivot to sticks—not drumsticks, not my air drumsticks—but sticks with the “y” in the middle. Uh, how did you—you want to tell a little bit about how you ended up—

Todd Sucherman:
Sure. Um, well that—that came about from my good fortune of breaking in and breaking through the recording studio scene in Chicago in the early ’90s, and this would have been March of 1995. The guy who ran the cartage company that dealt with all the musicians—meaning he—he and his crew—if you had a session they were the ones that would come to your house, grab your gear, take it down to the studio, set it up, you go in, you play, sign a form, get paid, they tear it down, bring it back to your house. It’s awesome. So he had worked—Keith Marks, his name—he had worked with the band in the past. He’d worked with a couple of guys on their solo projects. And in ’95, A&M was going to release Stixx’s greatest hits—their first hit, Lady, was on Wooden Nickel Records—and apparently there was some issue about getting the sound rights recordings from the blah blah blah blah, so they decided, well, let’s re-record it. Uh, and at that time, uh, John Panozzo—Stixx’s original drummer—was in ill health and kind of couldn’t physically play the drums. So they called Keith and they said, “Who should we get to ghost drum, um, on the session?” And—and Keith said, “Oh, you got to call Todd.” And I also saw them in ’81 and ’83 and, you know, was in bands with my brothers playing, you know, a bunch of the songs. So being from Chicago—they were a Chicago band—they’re on the radio all the time—it definitely in my musical DNA as well as, you know, a million other bands and kinds of music and whatnot. So that—that was it. I just went in and, uh, recorded that track, and it was sort of—I was in and out of there 90 minutes. Nice to meet you guys and—and left. But they—they—but they thought—they phoned me back in February of ’96 to do another song, and this time was a definitely a much more get to know you. You know, they’re asking me questions, and I think they weren’t nice before, but I could definitely tell something was brewing, and they were sizing me up as a guy because there’s—when you’re on the road there’s 22 hours that you might be together—traveling or hotels or restaurants—where you’re not on stage. So they were—they were sizing me up as a—as a person to see like each other.

Ari Gold:
Yeah, yeah. Um, a fan is asking: Have you ever had a chance to collaborate with Thomas Lang?

Todd Sucherman:
Uh, no, but I’ve met Thomas a few times. Um, but, uh, but we’ve never—we’ve never done anything together.

Ari Gold:
Okay. Yeah. So yeah—inspirational drummers I kind of want to get back to because your technique is—I mean, I don’t know how many—I don’t—I don’t know who’s better than you on—on the planet. You’re there. There’s plenty, there’s plenty.

Todd Sucherman:
Okay. There’s plenty. There’s plenty. Okay. So who—who—yeah exactly. Now I provoked you. Who—who are your—who are your heroes?

Todd Sucherman:
You know, I literally—I have a list that I have, you know, like a cut and paste when someone says who your favorites are, and I just cut and paste like 150 names, and they go, because it’s true. But if I were to pick, um, like the holy trinity, uh, it’d be Tony Williams, Steve Smith, and Vinnie Colaiuta. But then I go, well how can I, you know, keep that and not add Steve Gadd or Peter Erskine or, uh, Simon Phillips—Dr. Gadd—you know what I mean? And each name there’s, you know, I can go down to Roy Haynes, Jack DeJohnette, or I can go, you know, Neil Bonham, uh, Keith Moon, you know. This—it starts to be like this musical tree of, of, you know, some English guys like Mark Rosicky, Mel Gaynor, um, Phil Gould, Gary Husband, you know, Phil Collins. I can go on and on and on. I’m sorry, what’d you say? Ginger?

Ari Gold:
I was never a Ginger guy. Too crazy. It just—it didn’t speak to me. That’s simple. He never really spoke to me either. Watching him sometimes, I’ll like watch some videos on YouTube, just like—I find like listening to crazy drumming before I go to bed is like the best head massage, you know? It like cleans out—you cleans out whatever it—whatever is in your day that you need to get rid of so you don’t have bad dreams. But so I’ll watch some Ginger Baker, and I feel a massage. But musically, I never got super turned on by him the way I did with other guys. But, you know, yeah, you know, it’s just one of those things like—and sometimes you just miss something, you know what I mean? Like, uh—and then when you go back it—it’s like, um, it’s a historical—a homework—it’s an archival thing that is—it becomes a history lesson as opposed to truly having it mean something and—and—and touch me. Um, so it’s—it’s hard sometimes doing that, uh, you know, some sort of Jurassic dig to find out something. Sometimes it can be fun. Sometimes you’ll be thrilling and—and it—and it does hit you. And then sometimes you go, it just doesn’t. It just doesn’t do it for me. It’s not my flavor. So yeah. Well, simple as that. Um, so, um, yeah, so what’s—what’s going on with Stix right now?

Todd Sucherman:
Well, uh, you know, nothing is insofar as us doing any shows, of course, obviously. But we did record what will eventually be the next Stix record. So I did that right here. Um, and with the technology today, my engineer, JR Taylor, was able to run my studio rig with a program called Audio Movers. They could listen to—and then Tommy Shaw and Vankovich, who’s producing the record, they could listen with the private invite link in full high-resolution audio in their studios. And then we got into a Zoom call. And if it was, “How about a different fill going into the second chorus?” “Okay, punch me in.” Boom. And we did 17 tracks in three days here, like that. And I was wildly prepared for it because I was supposed to record the record in April in Nashville in Tracks in three days.

Ari Gold:
You were really prepared. Yeah. Was I— I mean, I’d been prepared a couple months before and then COVID came and it was like, what the hell are we gonna do? Were you changing tunings and changing positions for—based on the song, or was everything kind of locked down in terms of your—your kit?

Todd Sucherman:
Everything was locked down. I would change snare drums for—that would be really the flavor change. Um, I may have changed hi-hats on one or two things, but I kind of wanted this where the mission—I had kind of switched a lot of cymbals, I switched snares, I used the same kit. I wanted to have it a little bit more a band thing. Like, like if you—if you called me to do your record, one of the questions I’d ask you would be: Do you want me to find different sounds for what I think is each song, or do you want like a uniform band sound? You know, if you listen to Synchronicity by The Police, like that’s the same snare drum all the way through. Yeah. That has a uniform thing. Um, you know, think how different Every Breath You Take would have been with a big deep snare drum, you know? But it could have worked. So I’m not good—so that—that’s where we’re at with—with the Stix thing. And it—it doesn’t make sense for this particular band to put up the record until we’re able to go out and play because we—we promote the records much better in a situation where we’re out playing them than just putting it out there. And you know, it’s not—let’s face it—it’s not 1981 where it’s just everyone goes—goes crazy. There has to be—people have to hear it and go, you know what? That Stix stuff’s freaking great. And then they buy the record. So during—during lockdown, have you been playing every day? I mean, do you do you feel—do you—do you actually practice? I mean, this is a good question for all the drummers out there. Like, does Todd practice? Does he still practice?

Todd Sucherman:
Yes. As a matter of fact, I’ve probably had more time to practice because I’ve been at home as opposed to being on the road. You know, there’s only so much you can get done on a hotel bed or in the practice pad or, you know, the little practice pad in the dressing room. And I’m not one that goes out for a sound check and blows on the drums because our crews have had a hard day. The last thing they—they need is just—you have some guy, you know, wanking on the drums. So for here it’s been great because I’ve had more time to do that. At the same time, I’ve been very, very fortunate that I’ve had a bunch of sessions and a bunch of records where I’ve had to prepare the music ahead of time. So it’s been artistically, um, a very fertile time for me to be able to roll up my sleeves and record a couple records that, you know, a couple progressive rock things are, you know, you know, seven, nine minute songs—things that I really want to compose and play the best that I can, as opposed to just improvising and going, “Huh, is that cool?” Uh, you know what I mean? So it’s been—it’s been a very fertile time in—in that regard. Do you think you’re—I mean, what’s—what’s the—what are you proudest of that you’ve created in the last year?

Todd Sucherman:
Ah boy. A bunch of things. I did my own record last year that came out in May. The new Stix record just is really excellent and has progressive rock leanings. Uh, I just finished, uh, this record—this guy—so I mean that term can mean different things to different people. Like, what—put it in the camp of with some other—other bands or—or records from which I would want the aggressive rock. I mean, I hear that term and obviously that to some people that means only stuff that was like in the mid ’70s that where there’s 17-minute songs. And other people are like, “Oh, Queen’s right,” because, you know, like, what does progressive mean to you?

Ari Gold:
Yeah. Well, I mean, to—to me, um, you know, like yes, Genesis, um, but like until 1978. Like, you know, what’s the cutoff? Yeah, I know that—that that’s—that’s a good one. You’re making me think, Ari. Um, I’m a film director. No. Yeah, I mean really. If—if you talk about songs that have some, uh, time signature changes, some different sections where all of a sudden something will come in, you know—something that’s not the three minutes and 25 second, you know, verse chorus—uh, verse chorus bridge guitar solo out, right? Uh, that type of thing. So, um, you know, yes, this is some really cool keyboard stuff. And Lawrence Gowan is a freaking, you know, monster player. He studied the classical at the Toronto Conservatory. So, I mean, his—his facility on the instrument is ridiculous. Um, so yeah, there’s some—there’s some really cool things on—on the record that it—it leans more in that direction than, you know, the Bon Jovi rock chorus like hit sounding thing, uh, straight out of the gates. So yeah, yeah. Okay. Um, so, uh, someone’s asking me what films have I directed unless they’re asking you. Maybe they’re asking—I think they’re asking me. Yeah. I made a movie called Branches of Power, uh, which is about air drummers. Um, it’s a comedy. Michael McKean from Spinal Tap plays my father in it—a union organizer—and someone who—who Todd has also worked with. Um, and some of you who’ve been here since the beginning have heard that. But, uh, and I made a movie called The Song of Sway Lake. And I have a TV show that I’m pitching right now. Big A—not independent thing. I’m moving out of this indie world into Hollywood and surfing in the meanwhile to keep myself from killing people. Um, uh, yeah. So that’s well—that’s enough about me. So, uh, you started drumming at like when you were like four, right?

Todd Sucherman:
I—I was two actually. But—but by the time I was four I was—I was—I was playing. Actually, I was playing this kit right—

Ari Gold:
You were doing timpani with this Chicago Symphony. Let’s just play this kit right—right here. Well, this one’s Slingerland with an 18-inch bass drum—that was my father’s last kit—my first. But I was playing timpani by the time I was four. And I did my first paying gig with my brothers when I was, uh, six. That’s—um, that—that does go part of the way to explaining your level of prowess. I mean, I talked to—I talked to Lars Ulrich who said he was air drumming for years before he got a drum set. And Neil Peart as well was playing pillows. He told me that he, uh, he was playing pillows for like a year before he got a drum set. Uh, he had to prove to his father that he was serious, so he played those pillows. Well, you—you know, Ari, that—that’s the plight of so many drummers. Uh, I—I have a show on Drumeo I do every—a streaming thing I do every Wednesday. And last show I was talking about how at some point we all fell in love with this. Whether you saw Ringo on the Ed Sullivan Show or you saw a Fourth of July parade or you saw, you know, your cousin had a drum kit in the basement—whatever it was—whatever—you came to this. You saw this and you—you thought, “That looks like fun. I want to do that.” And then the journey begins. Like, you got to convince your parents, or you got to get a paper route to pay for stuff. And then your dad might go, “Well, you get a practice pad for a year, and if you—” You know, everyone has their own journey to how they—they got to their—anything—drum set. Then the sound of those old practice—practice pads—they were horrible. At least now they have those like flatter rubber ones that are quieter. It’s amazing. A whole generation didn’t end up with carpal tunnel and tennis elbows. Oh, that’s—you know—that sound they were—they were just awful, awful sounding. But I—I gotta tell you, man, like there’s a thing about air drumming and I’m gonna—I’ll—I’ll tell you. It—you know, I was fortunate that I had drums, but points of the evening it was too late to play or something else was going on. Or maybe one of my brothers had a cold and he went to bed early, so I would play drums on my bed. That was one option. And then another thing was—you close your eyes—and I would learn kind of playing along with records. Or even—even into my 20s back when I would, you know—well, when you’re 21 and—and you might partake in some things that you do when you’re 21 and you’re up till 5 o’clock in the morning and you’re by yourself and you’re just playing music—I know what you mean. But you just go back and forth on the tape deck and just air drum that part. “What the hell is that?” It’s a tool to—to learn when you can’t sit at the drums. Yeah. It’s as simple as that. I mean, I—as—as the—the only person in the Guinness Book for air drumming—this is my claim to fame in life—I will say that air drumming, like you can’t—you can’t mess up. You can’t fake it. And so when I learned the air drum song, you know—and there’s also an athletic element of air drumming where you’re essentially have to—you have to have the strength to do each beat in double time because you—you can’t—there’s no—there’s no rebound. So you’re going down and then up. And so if I drum a hard song—you know—a hard song—I’m not a great drummer—but if I—I drum a hard song and I get through it, I’m fine. If I air drum that song and get through it, I gotta lie on my back for 10 minutes. I’m exhausted. So it’s—and I think it burns into your brain when you air drum or play pillow or whatever because you’re imagining that drum set around you and you don’t have it. And so, you know, yeah. And you’re—while you might experience a sensation of weightlessness, you do—you do have to—it’s a—it’s a there and back.

Todd Sucherman:
Um, though I don’t rely on rebound from the drums. I gauge the rebound because a snare drum is going to give me more love than a 18-inch floor tom. And you know, a 20-inch crash is going to feel different than a 10-inch, you know? I mean, each—each instrument on your drum set has a different feel and response. Which drum gives you the least love? Uh, the gong drum. The—the twenty is gonna—here, I’ll take you back to the gong drum because—that—that’s it. That’s a 20-inch head, you know? It’s not—it’s not tensioned and taut like—like—like a snare drum pillow. You can just lie down on it and—in it. Yes. You could—you could—you could take a nap. You could just lie down and really, you know. But wake me up in 20. Um, so yeah. It’s—you know, got a 22-inch crash over there. That—that—that—that’s going to feel different than a 17-inch crash. The—there’s the response. Um, but I—I—I know what you mean. It’s—it’s all you when you got nothing.

Ari Gold:
Yeah. I got some—a couple people have asked if you ever did anything with Jeff Porcaro.

Todd Sucherman:
I never met Jeff, no. Um, a lot of mutual friends, um, but I—I—I never got to see him play live. I never met him. Uh, I—I just read the Robin Flans book. Uh, finished that a couple months ago and—and went down a ridiculous Jeff listening rabbit hole. And you know what? What’s funny—and I don’t know if it’s you get to be at a certain age—but there are also certain things that I didn’t like when I was a kid that I hear now and I’m like, “My God, that’s great.” Yeah. So Toto was one of them.

Ari Gold:
Yes. No, I wasn’t going to go Toto. Uh, one thing in particular was When I Need You—Leo Sayer. That used to be an instant, “Turn that off, turn that off.” You know, like I wanted Led Zeppelin or The Who or whatever. Like, turn—you know, you know, I’m—I’m nine years old, whatever, and you’re getting picked up from Little League and that’s like, “Turn that off.” I just thought it was a sappy 6/8 romantic wussy ballad. And then there was talks about people talking about how great that song was. I’m like, “Geez, I didn’t know that was Jeff.” And then I went and listened. I wouldn’t listen to it. It was like the jaw just went like—like the feeling that’s just freaking stupid. Yeah. His feel is this, um, some kind of magic. Always.

Todd Sucherman:
Yeah. I, um—you know—you—you can—you could ask—you could go on a yacht rock playlist and he’s played on half of everything. But all those people on that—on, um, on Lowdown—I think it’s Lowdown—it’s a fun one to listen to in stereo and take off—take off one ear and the other because he has two hi-hat patterns going—one in each ear. He played twice in the studio. I mean, probably more than quite—he was—he was pissed about that.

Ari Gold:
Oh, really?

Todd Sucherman:
He—he didn’t want the—the—the 16th notes. He’d recorded it one way and the producer wanted it. And like he was like reluctantly did the—the double tracking on it if I remember that right from the Robin’s book. Like, from an arrangement point of view he didn’t like the fact that they were gonna actually run both of them at the same time because he—I think he felt that it wasn’t as hip as the track that he did and that they were trying to make it just that much more disco than what he did.

Ari Gold:
Yeah. I mean, but it worked. Yeah. You know, it’s—it hits. I mean, I—I—I love the feel of that even—even if it’s, you know, some kind of soup of multiple takes. Um, it’s—but he—he had—he had a magic thing where, you know, there are certain drummers when you know Gadd makes me feel that way—Steve Jordan—where they could be playing the simplest groove and I go, “How are you doing that? How are you making it feel like that?” And like, yes, I know. Yeah. As everyone’s got their own heartbeat and everyone’s got that. I think I—I can—I can intellectualize and understand it like that. But still, like okay, now sit down and make it feel like that. You’re like, “How are they doing that?” That’s—that’s the thing that I’m trying to really zero in now and not like, you know, chops or trying to play, you know, difficult polyrhythms that, you know, very few will understand or enjoy. Um, I—I want to be able to—to make something feel, uh, as great as I can make it feel. And—and that’s something that I—I always tried to do like growing up as a kid. But I was caught up in the—I loved chops. I loved playing, and almost to my detriment. I—I gained a lot of facility, a lot of understanding, um, to play a lot of stuff. And now it’s—it’s—I just—I just want to make it feel great.

Todd Sucherman:
Yeah. I love it when someone comes to me for a session, you know, and it’s a ballad or something with brushes. I’m like, “Oh, thank God.” Thank you. They always come to me with like, “Let’s get Todd on them.” Oh, I mean, I just—it’s my favorite thing in the world to do. Yeah. Quite honestly. Yeah.

Ari Gold:
So who—who would you love to have a collaboration with out there on planet Earth that you haven’t? Anybody that you haven’t yet, you know, is—yeah, because a person. There must be somebody out there you’re like, “I’d love to do a track with blah.” It’s like, “Oh sure.” You know, Peter Gabriel will, Sting, Paul McCartney, you know? I mean, you can—Jeff Beck—you can go down the line of all the greats. But, um, I’m—I’m often surprised by a random phone call from someone. Or, “Hey, are you available?” And it’s something I don’t know. I started to say I did this record two years ago for this guy in Germany. Uh, it’s called Finally George because he, um, he has been, uh, a music composer for jingles and film and, uh, corporate events and corporate films—stuff like that. But this is the first time that he’s been able to do his own music without someone standing over his shoulder telling him yes or no or what to do. And, you know, very often I’ll get sent stuff and I’ll—I’ll play something and my wife will kind of go, “You can’t put your name on that.” Or, in this case, “Who is this?” And just three great progressive rock songs. Like, if you—if you dig like the David Gilmour side of Pink Floyd or the—the mellower side of Porcupine Tree—little bits of Genesis—of Billy Joel and Bowie, um, with Parsons and—assistant Billy Joel together, right? Yeah. There are all these little bits. So I—I did this record and I treated it like it was my own record. And so I just finished his second one just last week, uh, and he’s become a friend in—in—in Germany. Uh, uh, uh, I’ve done both his records and it’s—it’s—it’s like with music that good all I can do is not screw it up, you know? So, uh, you know, I’d love to play with more people like that. So someone that I’ve never heard of that—that comes out of the blue and becomes part of my life—that’s—that’s the amazing thing about this. I could pontificate over like, “Gee, it’d be great to work with Sting,” but then there’s something like that comes and it—and it makes me almost weak on this is why I want to want to be a musician. You would sound great with Sting though. And they’re saying the same thing, by the way. Thank you. That would be fun. And Ringo’s All-Star Band. Have you met Ringo?

Todd Sucherman:
Uh, twice. Yes. Uh, yes twice. Um, sorry, what’s that German record called?

Ari Gold:
Uh, Finally George: Life Is a Killer. That’s the one that came out in 2018. And whatever his second one I just finished—that should hopefully be out sometime later in the year. But it’s—it’s—it’s on, you know—it’s on the Amazon, Spotify, whatever you however you listen to your music. Uh, it’s there. It’s really, really an amazing record. Okay. Okay. Um, what’s the hardest Stix song? That’s a question I’ve gotten several times. So I’m going to throw it at you. What—what song that makes you a little nervous when you’re about to play it live?

Todd Sucherman:
Well, I—I never get nervous, but I always hope that I have gas in the tank for Renegade at the end because that’s where we end the show with that. Um, Fooling Yourself is deceptively hard. It seems kind of like a happy song, but there’s a—there’s a lot—there’s a lot going on up here because it’s—it’s 12/8 to 4/4 to 7/4, um, and then kind of—that’s prog. But it—but it’s—it’s got—it’s got the Peter Gabriel Salisbury Hill 7/4 where you don’t realize it’s in 7/4 unless you go, “Hey, wait a second,” because it’s got a groove. Yeah, exactly. Um, so yeah, I—I—I’d say—I’d say those. Um, sometimes Miss America would—would kick my ass a little bit just because it’s like, you know—it’s like, you know—it’s like this—this big big bone bone head straight ahead rocker. And depending on where that is in the set or if it’s 100 degrees and 100 humidity outside when we’re doing the show, that can, uh, that can wreck me a little bit sometimes.

Ari Gold:
Hey, I—I want to—I want to ask you if I—if I could because I only got to meet Neil Peart once and I had a beautiful experience with him. And it’s—it’s very cool that that, um, you know, obviously it was—it was in the film, but you—you obviously connected with him enough to have a—a—a—a—a friendship. And, uh, you know, I’m curious of any—anything you’d like to share about your experience with him.

Todd Sucherman:
I mean, he—you know—he—he was, uh—look, I didn’t—I consider it more like a mentor that, you know, he was someone I always looked up to who would, um, you know, send me funny notes sometimes. We exchanged books. Um, you know, he was gonna maybe teach me to ride a motorcycle, which never happened. We—we had some plans—amazing plans—that he wanted me to air drum with the—the, um—what it’s called—the hockey—the Canada hockey theme or Canada Day—Hockey Night in Canada—fucking night. Yeah. So he has this big thing that he would do and—and he wanted me to air drum along with it. And, um, but you know, I think we connected—we—we first met on the set of Adventures of Power. I’d never spoken to him. I sent this letter to his management saying that I wanted him to be in this crazy independent movie about air drumming. And everyone said, “Oh, he’s a recluse.” You know, he—he just went through all this crazy stuff. He doesn’t do public stuff. He doesn’t appear on camera. And then word came through that he wanted to do it. And so I was totally flattered and—and intimidated. And, um, and then he actually couldn’t make it to set the day we shot his scene at the end of the movie when he’s at the—anyway, for anyone seen it, there’s a big competition. He shows up. So he wasn’t there when we shot the competition. So we—we built a special day where we like went to a studio and put a bunch of people to make the crowd so he could do his scene. Um, and I thought, “Oh this is so rinky-dink,” you know? It just like—it looks so silly, you know, because when you’re shooting a crowd scene in like a room and you’re faking it. Um, and the fact that it was so rinky-dink I think really charmed him. And so he immediately kind of warmed to the film and to us when he realized we were, you know, scrappy independent filmmakers. And he told me—we had a burrito back, you know, when we were waiting to shoot. And he said, “You know, this reminds me of, you know, when—when we were—when I was starting out as a musician.” And it’s so—it’s so great. He kept saying, “It’s, you know, it’s an honor to be working on something like this.” And then—and then when the movie, uh, you know, we finished the movie, went to Sundance and got kind of ignored slash attacked at Sundance. It was a kind of like really open-hearted comedy that at the time I think people didn’t want. They wanted something really cynical and mean. And so it was not well received actually. And he immediately contacted me and said, “Don’t believe anything anyone says about you—good or bad—uh, because if you believe the good ones you’re gonna believe the bad ones.” So just ignore it. And then he did these, you know, he did an interview with me at Drum Channel and then did this drum off where he played Tom Sawyer and I—I air drum right next to him while he’s playing it. And I mean, it’s like the life—lifelong dream of like millions of air drummers around the world. But, um, his generosity—I think he had this generosity mixed with obviously like a heavy brain. Like, he was super intellectual—a big reader, big thinker. Um, I actually challenged him a little bit about the—about the objectivism, um, you know, that it was so influential to his early lyrics. He said, “You know, what’s your feeling about,” you know, Ayn Rand now? And he kind of gave me a funny look like he—that he was over it. That he—I think he became a bit more open to spiritual ideas and open to certainly ideas about—uh, did I get caught off there for a second?

Ari Gold:
Yeah, you just froze for just a second.

Todd Sucherman:
Yeah. He kind of—he became more intrigued by stuff of the spirit and stuff of, you know, Mother Earth, which you can hear in some of the later Rush albums and the lyrics. Um, and so we connected on that. And, um, but you know, mainly I—I—it would—it was someone who made me feel—I think made everyone who met him feel, uh, welcome and protected and warm. Um, you know, for someone who is known as being a recluse or more distant—you know—you can never get to him—um, he was extremely warm. But he just—you know—he didn’t like dealing with like massive people coming at him at once. So like, you know, I—I got to get backstage passes to Rush shows and, you know, but he never showed up backstage, you know? He was—he was out. You know, he would, um, he would finish the show and—and go home. Boom. Yeah. He wanted to be with his, you know, his wife. And, um, so, uh, you know, this—I mean, I have his book, you know? He sent me his books whenever they came out. And it’s just relentless creativity. I don’t know. It’s—it’s very hard to have him gone from—from where I am. I know so many people that were in that circle or that orbit. Our guitar tech of 20 years, who died about six months before Neil did—Jimmy Johnson—was Neil’s boyhood friend and he was part of the deal when Neil got the Rush gig. Jimmy comes with. So Jimmy was with—with him all the way. Lawrence Gowan—when he was going in the ’80s—he was Ray Daniels was the manager. Um, uh, Libby Gray—our lighting designer—her husband’s Brent Carpenter has been doing monitors for Rush for the last 10 years. So through like Lawrence—like, you know—I know these people. And Howard Ungerleider—the lighting director—and everything I’ve ever heard about any of those guys is that they’re just exemplary human beings. It’s just it’s a wonderful organization of wonderful human beings. Uh, never heard one, “Hey, this one time.” Never heard one negative story or anything. Like, just exemplary human beings.

Ari Gold:
Yeah. Rush and them—they didn’t tolerate—they didn’t tolerate assholes, I don’t think. They wouldn’t have let anyone who was a douchebag into their world. And I think they had a sense for it too. And that’s where I was sort of flattered that they sort of the door opened for me to hang out a little bit, and—and it was—it was yeah. It was special. And—and yeah, you felt that from everyone. There there was a kind of like a sense of like everyone respected everyone else and, um, and was kind. It wasn’t like rock and roll BS ever, right? All right. Um, when I—my—my one meeting with him, uh, revolves around the Hockey Night theme. Uh, I’d flown to Los Angeles to record, uh, with Brian Wilson. And he was doing his, uh, uh, Gershwin record—both reimagined Gershwin. Every time you say that—every time you say, “Oh, and I went to record with Brian Wilson,” it’s—yeah, it is amazing. I’m not for free. Okay. Did I mention I was in Central Pay—no, no. Um, so I fly out there and I’m—and I’m staying at the—the Sportsman’s Lodge in—in Studio City, right? Uh, and I get an email from Jimmy Johnson—our guitar tech—and said, “Hey, look what Neil sent me.” And it’s a picture of the hockey drum set, right? With all the, you know, the—the white with the ice blue, uh, hardware and all the—every emblem of all the, uh, NHL teams on all the drums. So I’m like, well I was thinking it was cool, you know? Went to bed. Woke up. Went into the studio to—so actually this was the second day because my stuff was already set up. It was the second day. I walked in and I see Chris Danke from Sabian—the Sabian artist rep—in the—the foyer at the Ocean Way. I’m like, “Chris, what are you doing here?” He goes, “Todd, I saw Brian’s name on the door. I wondered if you were going to be here.” Like, “What are you doing here?” “Neil’s recording the hockey night theme and the next studio over.” He goes, “Now’s a good time to say hi.” I’m like, “Let me drop off my stuff,” and I’m starving. So I dropped off my stuff and I went and grabbed a bagel from the kitchenette, took a bite, and then all of a sudden Chris pulls me in. And in his studio there’s the kit, the freaking Stanley Cup trophy, an 18-piece big band, you know, all the techs, and a film crew filming this thing. And Chris introduces me and just, you know, warm handshake and a smile because we both know we have so many, uh, um, mutual people in our lives. And he was just warm, engaging, lovely. He was asking me all the questions. He wanted to know about the Brian Wilson record and what’s it like working with Brian and, you know, tell me some Brian stuff. Um, and, you know, I’m looking around and I basically see that there’s 27 people in this room all waiting for him to be done talking to me so they could get to work. But Neil seems to be quite happy to be chatting. But now I’m starting to feel a little bit like I should probably let you get back to work here. So Chris is all, “We got to get a picture.” So it snapped a couple pictures of—of Neil and I in the Stanley Cup, and I’m holding that friggin bagel with a big crescent bite out of it. Um, and that was my—my one meeting. I’m like, “Hey, uh, I’ll let you get to work,” and I—I got work to do too. So it was great. And I’d always hoped that there would be some other meeting with him, but it was not meant to be. But I’m very happy that I privileged and grateful and thankful that I had one and that it was so, uh, lovely. That it’s a warm fuzzy every time I think of it. Did you keep the bagel?

Todd Sucherman:
No, I ate the bagel. I was hungry.

Ari Gold:
I’m gonna say you could bronze—bronze the big—[Laughter]—bronze bagels. Um, so maybe we’ll—we’ll wrap up. I—I don’t, um—maybe I’ll look at whatever the next question is. We’ll do one question now. Everyone’s going to type it once, and—and someone’s going to feel cheated. But, um—oh, people just say thank you. Um, so bronze the bagel. Okay. I think maybe we’ll wrap up. So, um, anyone who wants to watch Adventures of Power, it is on Amazon Prime all the time. Um, and, uh, if you want to buy Adventures of Power on Vimeo, all of the money that we make on Vimeo goes to support MusiCares, which has a COVID—COVID special program to support musicians in need and for gigging musicians and support crews. It’s a really great charity. Um, so—or you can go to MusiCares and just donate. But if you watch Adventures of Power either on Amazon for free, you know, we get paid a couple pennies every time someone watches it, so we send it to MusiCares. Vimeo—we got a little bit more—we send it to Music—Arizona—Vimeo. You get all the bonuses including my interviews with Neil Peart and stuff like that. Um, and, um, yeah, Adventures of Power is—that’s the movie. Um, airdrummer.com has some video. Actually, if you go there—if you go to adventuresofpower.com/sticks you can see me punking Todd the day that I—um, that video is—is on your page on—on the airdrummer.com website. So apologies—2006. I can’t—2006—that’s crazy. I can—I can hardly remember 2006. I—but I can’t—I mean, I remember that day, but I—I wouldn’t have thought it was that long ago. But, you know, time—time flies. As—as the movie starts with the line I was thinking when you’re talking about every drummer has their own heartbeat, the first line of the movie is: “The first sound we hear is the beat of our mama’s heart.” And so maybe every drummer is different because in the womb every drummer has heard a different kind of heartbeat. So—and your mother was an actress—actor, actress—part-time singer and could play the piano. Okay. That was—that’s how my parents met. My father was playing a show and she was in it. Okay. So you heard—you heard the heartbeat of an artist when you were in the womb. And you were probably—you were probably air-drumming along.

Todd Sucherman:
Yeah. I mean it certainly didn’t seem to hurt because you were playing. Yeah. Sorry. Um, okay. So, uh, thank you so much, Todd. It’s a—it’s a real honor to—to hang out with you.

Ari Gold:
Thanks man. It was a pleasure. We’re able to do—we’re able to do this. Yeah. And thank you to Modern Drummer for, uh, hosting this. Uh, we were going to be on all the channels at once and we will restream this to all channels later. We, uh, had a power outage at our streamer’s place. But, um, thank you so much. And anyone who wants to watch Adventures of Power right now with me—with me online, um, uh, if you go to airdrummer.com and then click the—the, you know, the show link in the middle with where Todd’s name is, you’ll go to a watch party on Amazon. And I’ll click start at the same time in like five minutes. And then if anyone wants to say anything to me during—during the movie, you can say it there. But if you watch it another time, feel free to contact me at Ari Gold. That’s where I am on—on Instagram. And, uh, remember it all supports MusiCares. That’s my spiel—spiel. I said my spiel part. Todd, anything else you want to say about your life or advice?

Todd Sucherman:
Yeah. Like, stay—stay safe. Stay smart. Do the right things, everybody. And, um, and keep playing music. If—yeah, if we can all do that, we can—we can get back to, uh, the live music experience. Yeah.

Ari Gold:
Okay. Uh, thank you so much. I’m gonna remember—remember—remember when I click the button to stop to not to hit save so we can re broadcast this. We’ve got a lot of compliments on the interview, so I don’t want to lose it. I got to remember I’ve done this before. Right now I won’t say anything. I won’t distract you. It’s okay. I’m gonna say goodbye. I’m gonna press the button. I’m gonna hit save. Hit save. Okay, good luck. Thank you, Todd.

Todd Sucherman:
Thanks man. I know it’s too late for me to learn to play drums. I can still rock.

This interview originally appeared on Hotsticks.fm.

See more about Styx on the official site for Adventures of Power, the world’s greatest (and only) Air Drum Movie!

Enjoyed this session? Explore more from the Interviews Archive.

This session drifts through memory, mentorship, teaching, loss, and the strange way music lives inside the body long after the last note fades. Scott reminds us that the great ones never stop listening — to the beat, to each other, to the space between the notes.

At its core, this conversation is about devotion. To rhythm. To learning. To staying open long enough for the music to keep teaching you who you are.”

The Discipline of Becoming

Scott Reeder reflects on Neil Peart’s influence not just as a drummer, but as a model of lifelong study. From early marching band experiences to moments of frustration, mentorship, and self-discovery, Scott shares how discipline, humility, and repetition shape real musicianship. The conversation explores the idea that mastery isn’t about “getting it,” but about recommitting — over and over again — to the work.

Rhythm, Memory, and the Body

The discussion expands into how music lives inside the body and brain, from childhood development to aging artists. Stories of Glenn Campbell, Music Cares, and the neurological power of rhythm highlight how music becomes a form of memory, survival, and emotional continuity across a lifetime.

Van Halen, Space, and Feel

Reeder and Ari dive deep into Van Halen, beat placement, swing, space, and feel — unpacking why groove lives between the notes, not on top of them. From studio tricks to live performance realities, Scott breaks down how feel is learned through listening, watching, and staying open. The conversation ultimately lands on a shared truth: the greats never stop learning, and neither should we.

Watch video version here:

RAW TRANSCRIPT (Pardon the old-school glitches):

Ari Gold: How about you, Powell? You like drums? I’m not pussyfooting. I’m double bass drumming. Welcome to Hot Sticks Drum Show, presented in conjunction with Drum Channel. I’m Ari Gold, Guinness World Record holder for air drumming and director and star of the air drum cult comedy Adventures of Power, featuring Neil Peart and an all-star cast. Stream Adventures of Power at airdrummer.com and support the Grammy Music Hairs Foundation. And check out other episodes at hotsticks.fm. And now let’s chat with the world’s greatest drummers and more about music and the human heartbeat. Imagine that. And I’m so happy to have you all here. We are honored. And I’m going to do an air drum roll. Oh, no, you guys are already here. To my to one side of me. I’m not sure which way I’m pointing. Scott Reeder. drummer extraordinaire of Fu Manchu and his neighbor’s heads, I’m sure. And Kai Ahrens, artist. Okay. Is there a flux capacitator in there that we can spike or something? Yeah. Yeah. I liked Ari’s thing doing this. That covers all bases. Just keep rolling, guys. You can hear it on Instagram. It’s that way. It’s that way. This is an airdrum, a very famous airdrum move. When I was in the Guinness Book, when I got into the Guinness Book, I did a cross. So I’m practicing my Guinness World Records. Guinness Cross. Those of you on this Instagram, we’re doing a live stream. Come over to Fu Manchu Band’s Instagram page to watch us there. Because Scott Reeder of Fu Manchu is with us. And I’d love to ask you, Scott. We connected because of Neil Peart, drummer of Rush and person of so many wonderful people. facets of life. What is, what was your, you want to share a little bit of your experience with Neil Peart and what he meant to you personally and musically?

Scott Reeder: Yes. Wow. I think I think wow encapsulates pretty much all of it. Yeah, I mean, I you know, I think everybody of obviously like our generation went through a very heavy Neil phase. First, it was the wow, I’ll never be able to do anything like that. phase. And then I think it was the next phase was, okay, maybe I can get close to that. Actually, I’ll have a good story that kind of encapsulates the whole thing for me. So when I was in junior high, I was in marching band. And, and I had been in like, you know, elementary school bands and all that stuff. And I had a great band teacher that she changed my life, literally changed my life and pointed me in the direction that I needed to go. And, So, you know, at the time, early 80s, you know, MTV coming on and being exposed to all these drummers. I’d always been interested in drums, but playing them and, you know, getting into there. But Rush was always that thing that like, well, you know, you might be able to play some of that stuff on MTV, but you can’t do that. Right. So then. I don’t know where it kind of shifted to where I could act. I actually could do that, but signals was my record. Everybody says moving pictures, but signals was, was kind of like, I was too late for moving pictures. I kind of caught it late. And, uh, but signals was the album that I really like got into. And that, yeah, that was, it was long.

Ari Gold: Were you air drumming to on signals?

Scott Reeder: Well, I mean, I was probably more so air drumming to, uh, probably more subdivisions because that’s the song I wanted to learn, you know? And so, yeah.

Ari Gold: So the offbeat, yeah.

Scott Reeder: And actually that, that one fill and fun and funny enough, the one fill that’s in the second, it’s like pretty much the third verse after the first solo. And I use this on my students. Now I tell them, I say, if you can never figure out how to count a fill, you just sing it to yourself. And yeah, And you vocalize it. You make it a vocal, you know, a rhythmic melody, so to speak. So that’s how I figured that out. Well, I had a band teacher, obviously, in elementary school that was great. I had a first year junior high band teacher that was awesome. My second year junior high school band teacher was horrible. He was basically your whiplash drum teacher.

Ari Gold: Yeah.

Scott Reeder: And so I had memorized and I sort of moved myself up from snare drum to this. It was great. It was like a three roto Tom set up. And I was so excited to play it and, you know, learn that not quads, but trios, basically. And so when he came in, he said to everybody, you’re going to have to everybody’s going to have to re-audition. because I’m a new band teacher anyways, long story short, I didn’t know the music. I just memorized the parts and I could read music, but I was in that phase where I was kind of getting away from the written thing and going, I really don’t need this because I can figure it out on my own. And so I didn’t pass the audition and he kind of got in my face and did the whiplash thing and went, you know, you don’t even know this stuff. You don’t really belong in this position. What makes you think that you can play these things? And I just looked at him and I said, I know subdivisions. I don’t need this. And that was the end of my, my marching band career pretty much for junior high. I was like, you know what? I’m out. See ya. I’m just going to go learn sign one of that album. Know what that meant. He didn’t know it. No, actually his response to that, he goes, I don’t know what that is. And I’m like, exactly.

Ari Gold: Can you sing the film that you’re talking about?

Scott Reeder: It’s the one that goes, but, but, but, but, um, So it’s it’s it’s after the it’s after the lyric that says lit up like a firefly.

Ari Gold: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Scott Reeder: It’s it’s the it’s the feel that comes after that. So that was that was my first that was my first deal phase knowing it. And then I think as you know, time went on. I mean, I saw them live. I saw a guy air drumming in the crowd with glow sticks. And I said, well, I’ll never be as good of an air drummer as that dude. So I’m not going to do it. Uh, I’m going to watch him do it, but it was great. Uh, and this was back when Neil was playing everything note for note live. And then, you know, as time went on and I got into other music, it kind of waned and waxed and stuff. And I saw them, you know, in the mid nineties, it was awesome. And I kind of lost touch with, uh, with his drumming, really, you know, in the late 90s. And obviously they had their elongated break. And then when they came back, Vapor Trails just knocked my ass off. I was I was completely floored by the drumming and just the intensity of the album, not really even knowing the backstory to it and then knowing the backstory. And I think the thing with with Neil that kind of resonates most with me is the craft and the craftsmanship and the the dedication to The just keeping it going and getting better and changing things and that whole probably brought even closer to home now with Eddie Van Halen’s death and just the whole thing of you’re in this. This is not something that you just do and you think you can get it. If you think you’re going to get it, then you probably need to stop because you never really get it. You know, I told a student today that whenever I sit down, I have to convince myself that I can still do it, you know. I know I’m capable, but am I able, you know. And or maybe it’s I’m able, but am I capable? I don’t know. But I think the dedication to the craft and the dedication to always trying to be the better of what you do. That was Rush. That was Neil. That’s Eddie Van Halen. That’s anybody that’s in it for life. You know, it’s like you don’t. You just practice and you keep playing and you don’t stop. You’re either in it for life or you’re not. And that’s it. I think it’s pretty intense to think that those guys that were two giants of... I know we’re veering off the subject of drumming, but Eddie Van Halen made me, when I saw him play live, it was the same thing as seeing Neil. I was like... these guys are actually above everybody else at what they do. And that’s where I want to be. And I know I may not ever get there, but at least if I kind of shoot in that direction, I might get in the ballpark. So maybe I can have something of my own, you know?

Ari Gold: Right. Right. Um, Yeah. So, Kai, let’s talk about Van Halen. I know we’re getting off the subject, but I know, Kai, you’ve got a hard on for Halen and we all did. But you maybe have a special special connection to them.

Kii Arens: Well, I mean, when I was in seventh grade, I saw David Lee Roth come down an escalator into a food court. And I was freaking my mind out about eruption about the same time. And he it was his perfect David Lee Roth era where his hair was that bleach bleach blonde and the roots were really showing. And I went up. right at the edge of the escalator. And I’m like, you know, seventh grade, dumb, dumb shit. You’re David Lee Roth. He had to have pushed me out of the way because people were backing into him. And so he kind of went into the food court and I’m like, oh my God, I’m such an idiot. I’m nervous. It’s David Lee Roth, but where’s the rest of the band? So I went up to David Lee and girls were already surrounding and he gave me an autograph. And I said, hey man, like where’s, where’s Eddie? Like where’s Alex? And get away. So we start searching around and I walk outside and this tour bus pulls up and I’m like, yes, this has got to be the rest of the band. And all of a sudden, all these old dudes start pouring out of the bus. They’re all carrying guitars and shit. And the bus driver comes around and starts pulling out all the gear from underneath the bus. And I look down to the dude and I go, hey, is this Van Halen’s road crew? And all the dudes walking out of that bus just stopped and looked at me. And the bus driver goes, that’s the Doobie Brothers. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Oh, boy. But truthfully, I ran into Eddie one year ago coming out of Arts Delicatessen. Somebody in a fucking blue Lamborghini came flying into that place and it was the valet guy. And I knew the valet guy and I’m like, dude, you’re driving this thing like a wild man. And he goes, well, you would too. And all of a sudden Eddie walks out and I’m like, just like I had to say hello and say you are my all time favorite guitar player for many reasons and rhythm guitar player at the same time. Yeah. And to find out that the poster that I created for their show at the Hollywood Bowl, which was their last show ever, he had hanging in his bedroom, he told me.

Ari Gold: That’s a great poster, by the way. I remember seeing that and going, that’s cool.

Kii Arens: Thank you. And I was I was like, yeah, that’s I like that. That’s pretty cool. Thanks, man. It’s great to see bands at the Hollywood Bowl like that, too, because they always use I remember seeing ELO there a couple of summers ago. Great. It was and that was an amazing show because it was it was not just ELO, but it was the L.A. Phil with them. So all of those all of those parts and all that stuff that you hear are always covered. But they use the shell as part of the show. And they put so many graphics on it and all that stuff. So I never saw – I know Rush played there a couple of times, but I never got to go to any of those shows. I remember putting the headphones on to 2112 up in my brother’s room and getting lost. And the syrinx, the what of syrinx?

Ari Gold: The what of syrinx, exactly. What’s it called?

Kii Arens: The temples.

Ari Gold: Yeah, the overture.

Kii Arens: Yeah. Like, this is how a guitar is born. And it’s like, my brother had the logo silkscreened on his shirt. And it was like, that majesty was so ever-present within an album and an album cover. And the mystery that lies right in there. And, you know, my sister quickly started doing calligraphy of many of Neil Peart’s fine lyrics. And, yeah, that’s my... You know, I love Rush, although why are we here?

Ari Gold: Because we’re here. Roll the bones.

Kii Arens: Thank you. I don’t know where that came from, but. It’s a good one. You know.

Scott Reeder: It’s funny you were talking about people who left us this year and, you know, it’s a. it’s tough. It’s like, I mean, but the, this is the thing is like, we, we, we, um, what is the meaning of music is to remind us of life and to remind us of the preciousness of life and the awesomeness of life. Right. And these guys, Eddie and Neil have been, um, so much a part of our blood. Right. Um, I mean, I remember for me, like coming the first time I came to Los Angeles, driving over the Hills and like, um, pulled over i think it was a cd at the time i pulled over and put on van halen 2 and put on light up the sky yeah there you go like that song represented being in los angeles like seeing all these lights out in the city and like the way the there’s that little drum break towards the end with a lot of echo and yeah all the rest of the band comes kind of screeching back in through the mixing board, like light up the sky and the voices sound like they came from, I don’t know, they were like on motorcycles from heaven. And like, I just felt like, okay, life is worth rocking. Yeah. There’s, they, they had this, they had this thing and I think it’s, I mean, it’s, it’s present and, you know, I mean, it’s present in that music. It’s present in, it’s present for me and like, you know, black flag stuff and, uh, you know, very aggressive music, uh, rush music. It’s, it’s present in any music that kind of sounds like a rallying cry. I mean, to me, that’s kind of like what, like when you’re listening to temples of Syrinx or even when you’re listening to like, I mean, I get it sometimes when I’m listening to yes, or just like, you know, ridiculous Jeff Beck music. I mean, it’s just kind of like, it’s almost a rallying cry for like people, Yeah, it makes you feel good and it makes you feel elevated. And that’s kind of, to me, like... what those bands always did and they did it, they did it really well and they did it in subtle ways that you wouldn’t really, you know, there’s obviously the more over like air drumming moments and stuff, but like, to me, like a song like losing it means so much more as you get older and you kind of realize the, uh, the intricacy, not only of the musical part of it, but the lyrical part of it too. And, um, that song always kind of spoke to me for some weird reason, which I could never get. Probably it was because the song, it was the song that no one really paid attention to, uh, on signals. Um, it’s kind of like the last two songs on 1984, like girl gone bad and house of pain. No one ever talks about those songs and they’re the most searing moments of the Van Halen catalog. And they’re just like, they’re so over the top, but they just, they get you, you know, but light up the sky, the same thing. I remember hearing that drum break and trying to learn it.

Ari Gold: Oh,

Scott Reeder: and trying to actually play the rototom part, which was overdubbed.

Ari Gold: It was overdubbed, yeah.

Scott Reeder: And not realizing until later that it was overdubbed. It was actually overdubbed. I think when they would play together, like with Hot For Teacher and that song, go up next to his brother and play the same kit at the same time yeah they would they would he would play on the drums and and so but out of necessity out of trying to make that part work just being one drummer and not knowing you know not knowing it was over dub just knowing like just knowing he’s going okay i gotta go i gotta go i gotta keep that snare in there somehow so it actually forced me to Work on a technique that I didn’t know. And it’s funny because like I think Neil talks about.

Ari Gold: Yeah, exactly.

Scott Reeder: Like putting it over there.

Ari Gold: Get it over there.

Scott Reeder: And Neil talks about that in one of his instructional videos where he talked about trying to learn a Genesis fill and then them actually working at the studio where it was recorded. And he asked the engineer about the film. The guy’s like, oh, yeah, we just slowed down the tape. So so he ended up learning, you know, learning something that was actually a trick of the recording. But he’s like, well, I can execute it in real time. So I guess that makes it that’s, you know, that’s why hot that hot for teacher has that weird drum sound. I always kind of was what is that?

Ari Gold: Yeah.

Scott Reeder: Yeah.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Couldn’t figure it out.

Scott Reeder: Yep. Van Halen swings more than you would think too, like on little guitars. And I know it gets panned, but I love their cover of Dancing in the Streets, man. The thing you got to remember about Van Halen too with covers, and I know everybody burns Diver Down and all that stuff, but that’s how, I mean, it’s like in Fu Manchu, we’ve always thought if we’re going to do a cover song, We have to do something that makes it more of ours. You know, it’s like like I love I’ve heard certain bands do cover songs and nail them just like the original. And I think to myself, what’s the point? I can just learn. I can listen to the original with the original. Is that good? Van Halen took every cover song they ever did and they made it a Van Halen song. I got some good news recently, a silver lining. I spoke with Ross Hogarth, who did the last few records for Van Halen. And there’s a lot, a lot of two inch tape sitting there that no one’s ever heard of just, you know, Alex and Eddie having a blast doing what they do, jamming. A few different singers singing some stuff, but if you listen to Different Kind of Truth, the last Van Halen record, those riffs are awesome. Yeah, David Lee isn’t at his prime, but the grooves are and the playing is. And a lot of those songs actually came from their earlier period.

Ari Gold: I was going to get so Van Halen heavy tonight, but I don’t mind.

Scott Reeder: Well, it’s funny, too, because I remember reading an interview with Geddy Lee recently where they asked him about if there’s any unused Rush stuff. And he’s like, nah, if it wasn’t good enough, we didn’t work on it. So there’s not a lot of stuff hanging around, you know, which makes me happy for like... I always wondered why they released a live album with every tour and why they did a live DVD. And now I’m happy that they did. Because anytime I want to see it, I can go like, oh, there’s something from the last 15 years that I can watch or I can watch something from a long time ago. Yeah. Yeah. So that, that’s kind of like my, my sort of experience with, you know, with Neil is, is more of a, just really appreciating, even if I, even if there were albums where I kind of waned on either the tunes or, or, you know, I mean, you can, I don’t think you can put out so many records and have everybody love everything. Um, I know certainly there’s records that we put out that people have gone like, yeah, what’s that? You know, and later on, people go like, hey, man, that’s great. So it’s like, you never know. But I think just his dedication to, you know, always being prepared, the whole practicing to practice thing, you know, I was like, what the hell is that? Who does that? And then I started doing it and I started doing it so much that my bandmates were like, you kind of need to ease off a little bit. Like there was, there was a tour where I was playing all the time. And finally they were there. We’re all like individually and collectively going like, can you give it a break a little bit? Can you just like, can we have some silence, you know? You know, cause like he was obviously what a lot of the fans were scared of him or like, you know, cause he was not, one for the public guy, but at the same time, like this idea that he’s a God, you know, he, he was this God, he was the professor, but he, but he, you know, he flew off to Africa to study with people. He was constantly studying, constantly trying to improve, constantly trying to expand his horizons, which is a beautiful kind of lesson for, for everyone. You know, he never, he never was like, okay, I got my thing and this is my thing. He’s always like, nah, I gotta, I gotta figure some shit out. Um, And, um, I mean, it’s inspiring to me. Yeah. I think that that’s a, that’s something that I, I take from, uh, I take that on a daily basis for my students, actually, I’m constantly learning from them, you know, and it’s, I’m so, I’m so really lucky in that way, especially, you know, over the last few months, uh, you know, have never really stopped teaching since March. Uh, and, And I think I’ve learned so much from so many different people and people that I’ve been able to focus a little more time on that maybe other students that I hadn’t before. But, you know, they they enlighten me to things. They enlighten me to music that I haven’t heard. They. You know, it’s great when they catch me in mistakes and they go, isn’t it that? And I go, oh, yeah, yeah, you’re right. I heard it this way all along. We were we were learning a we were learning where eagles dare the other day with a student of mine. And so we had the chart. We were going through it and we get to this one part. And I was like, I always thought he did three of the same fill there. He only does one. Oh, and it’s not the toms. It’s the snare. And I’m like, oh, that kind of makes it a little bit easier.

Ari Gold: Yeah.

Scott Reeder: And the student goes, well, does it, though? Because you really got to whack that snare as hard as he’s doing and you got to roll that left hand.

Ari Gold: I’m like, yeah, you’re right. You do.

Scott Reeder: So it’s a it’s a to be open to that. I mean, I can’t understand from a teaching standpoint how you could ever think that, you know, everything. I have people bringing up Django Reinhardt, who, you know, just as an example of the wonderfulness of what people can do if they never stop. Django, I think, started on it. And then he lost his fingers and trained himself to play this incredible guitar with three fingers or just his thumb or something.

Ari Gold: And, uh, I just want to bring up one thing just for those who don’t know this, that the re-release of Adventures of Power, the air drumming extravaganza that people will be watching as they come to the screening, is supporting Music Cares, which is a Grammy organization that supports musicians in need. And during this difficult time, it’s an especially important organization. It’s something that I know that Neil was passionate about music being such an important part of culture, such an important part of people basically having their brains develop. It’s important to have musicians because, I mean, he and I talked about this idea that has been studied that children’s brains grow much more if they’re exposed to music and to complexity through music. It’s true. It’s also towards the end of people’s lives as well. I directed Glenn Campbell’s last three music videos when he had Alzheimer’s and he managed to pull off 150 tour dates while with full blown everything with his Alzheimer’s. But that music kept him going. Right.

Scott Reeder: That’s interesting. You bring that up because I, I, I honed in on that part of that movie where he was sitting down with his friend and they were, they were, they were, it was like they were at a family gathering. It was one, it wasn’t one of the tour dates, but they were, it was him and a friend and they were just playing acoustic guitar. And I think, I don’t know if it was wife or his daughter was talking about how the doctors thought that because that part of his brain was so developed and that muscle was so flexed, for so long that it was so much, it was like a stronger ring on the tree that all the other rings may have gotten weaker, but that one was probably the last one to get weak. And so it’s a, it’s, you know, and I think I see that intuitively when I find myself like just absentmindedly doing it. I mean, I’ve been doing that for 40 frigging years, you know, and, and like, and I still do it to this day. It’s like when I used to work in a drum store and people used to ask me like, doesn’t that noise bother you? And I’m like, you don’t understand. I hear that noise in my head all the frigging time. So why would it bother me? It’s actually makes me feel good.

Ari Gold: You know, people will be at your funeral and all of a sudden from inside the casket.

Scott Reeder: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Ari Gold: in a hundred years yeah i will i will i will tell everyone you have to uh you have to sing always look on the bright side of life or you can’t get in the funeral kick ass yeah so uh the are you guys all you guys uh the neil peard special that modern drummers put on is something that they they um as co-sponsors of us re-releasing the movie we want people to know that we have this this wonderful special about neil with tons of drummers and people talking about their experience with him and about his musical influence and uh so everyone please go to modern drummer.com and and watch it yes watch all those watch all those dudes rip watch watch a watch alex uh alex from mana do crazy stuff

Scott Reeder: That was, that was pretty insane. I mean, it was all great, but it was just, I was like, damn, like way beyond my pay grade.

Ari Gold: Well, um, you know, we’ve, I’ve seen some fans talking about, um, so, you know, there are, although that Godzilla was recorded before you were in Fu Manchu or even what’s the story with that?

Scott Reeder: Which, uh, sorry, I didn’t catch the, they’re talking about what?

Ari Gold: I think you’re talking about the Fu Manchu cover of Godzilla.

Scott Reeder: Oh, yeah, that was actually, yeah, that was Brandt that did it right on that. Yeah.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Yes. But you know what? You play it live.

Scott Reeder: I do. I have played. I have probably played it live more times than he did.

Ari Gold: Yeah.

Scott Reeder: Actually, I’ve played more. I played those songs more than both him and Ruben ever did, I think. But I have to say, man, I, you know, to come into a band when I did to be a fan of the band and to be a fan of both of those drummers and both of those guys have such unique styles. Ruben Romano, the original drummer, who was the original drummer in, uh, uh, Fu Manchu when it was, I think he was in virulence, I’m pretty sure. I can’t be sure on that, but I’d have to look at my history. But anyways, knowing Fu Manchu in its earliest incarnations, I was in a band called Smile, and we used to play shows with Fu Manchu. And I always used to watch them play and go like, God, these guys are so they have such like a such a looseness to them and just such a like a swagger to Ruben’s playing. He was very I mean, he was heavy, but he also had this kind of like Bill Ward kind of Nick Mason gate to his playing, you know, which was it’s super enviable. To me to actually want to because I didn’t play like that at all. And then Brant came in and his style was way more like straight up punk, very disciplined, very like play for the song, more Ramones type style. But seriously, like get the job done. And the best thing about to me about his playing is just like. the beat placement, which I’m always fascinated with, like where, where to put a bass drum, where not to put a bass drum can change everything, you know? And even when there’s busy riffs going on, do you, you play more or do you play less, you know? And do you let those, do you let the riffs do the talking or do you let the, do you let the bass drum kind of coalesce with those riffs? Uh, I’m a, I’m a drummer that I’ve, played mostly in most bands I’ve been in to guitar players. I don’t necessarily play to the bass players, although I’ve been lucky to play with some kick-ass bass players. But like I was explaining to someone today in my monitor on stage, I have Scott Hill. I don’t have Brad, our bass player, because I can feel Brad’s low end on stage. But I need to listen to the rhythm guitars because Brad plays very musically. And if I kind of followed what Brad was doing, I’d probably be playing a lot busier. So I kind of want to stay out of his way, but play more of a rhythm based stuff. So to have those two drummers precede me, it was kind of like, ah, what do I do? You know, I got to play all their stuff, but now I got to kind of like make my own. And luckily it’s been one of those situations where I’ve always kind of approached it with like, I want to, um, I want to honor what they did, but I also want to put a little bit of my own in there. But now having, you know, I mean, I mean, the first record we did was, or the first record that I was on was a live album. So talk about trial by fire. Here, learn 40 songs and go out on tour and play.

Ari Gold: This guy thinks he can join the band.

Scott Reeder: Yeah, exactly. And then I was like, well, you know, so far I survived a tour. And so but having made five records since then, it’s always this thing with me where like, you know, I want to show up and, you know, even stuff that we’re working on now, there’s definitely stuff that I’m going like, whoa, you know, I I should play a little bit less there. And that way I’d rather have the band come to me and go like, could you play a little bit more there? Instead of the opposite of way around of going like, Hey, a little bit, you know? So I’m always kind of airing on the side of, you know, I’ve heard about the beeping like a clock where some drummers are in front of the beat and some are kind of behind. Right.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Reeder: You know, that’s, that’s hard to say. I, I liked, I think that I play, it was funny. I remember having this conversation with, with Taylor Hawkins and we were, he, he got me this gig playing in a police cover band because he was playing with this police tribute band. And I love Stewart, obviously, which everybody does. Neil loves Stewart. I love that quote of Neil’s. How does it feel to be the best drummer in the world? Go ask Stuart Copeland. He’ll tell you, but you know, Stuart’s playing was so on top of everything. And I love that style of playing. And that’s kind of where I came from. And I think it is initially, I think Neil’s playing was right on top of it. You know, if you want to say that, like, it’s a very sort of like, uh, for lack of a better thing, like whiten up tight kind of playing, right? You’re like, you’re right on top of the beat, you know, and you’re hearing it. And in a way I was, I was a little, not disappointed, but when, when Neil started to try and concentrate on like playing a lot behind the beat, I was kind of like, ah, and he was, yeah, I was like, dude, that’s not like those songs that you recorded that way. Like play some new stuff that way. But if you go back and you play like YYZ behind the beat. No, that’s going to be, that’s going to be in front of,

Ari Gold: There is a scene in Adventures of Power where his – the airdrum movie that – Yeah. Where the trainer gets on him for – he’s like, you’re too tight to play right. And the idea is like he’s got to get loose a little behind the beat that his airdrumming is too like –

Scott Reeder: Yeah.

Ari Gold: On top of it, yeah.

Scott Reeder: So I – I mean, YYZ, yeah, you can’t be behind the beat on one.

Ari Gold: No, no, no.

Scott Reeder: And I remember like I remember seeing Rush live on the Snakes and Arrows tour. And I was it was almost like and you can kind of see it in some of the videos, too, of that tour where Neil was he it was almost like he was consciously behind the beat. And the band, because they played together was so long and they’re like a brain that’s functioning. They’re going with him behind the beat. So it was almost like they were in some instances, like a half a beat late on some stuff. And then I remember talking to Taylor about when he played YYZ with them. And they were going like, Whoa, man, can you, can you slow down a little bit? That’s like, you know, and they were just coming off that tour and he’s like, well, dude, that’s the way it is on the record. But they were going like, Oh yeah, that’s right. And then, you know, so, but it’s interesting. I think people in their evolution of playing, like my, my stuff is definitely like, I’ve tried to be a little bit more behind the beat and also having a, a, a heavy bottom influence. Uh, You know, trying to get in search of that, that thing of those spaces between the beat or like even Steve Jordan talks about that in that great instructional video that he has about the true length of a quarter note. And like, what is the actual length of a quarter note? It’s not the one, it’s the one and. You know, that’s it. And it’s kind of it’s like if you understand that it’s a it makes a big difference. Listen to the new ACDC song and listen to the space in Phil Rudd’s play. You hear it immediately. It’s a good song, too. I got to admit. It’s a great song and it’s so great to hear him play and you hear that space. You hear that space in his right hand and you go like, I could sit down and I could chart that out for somebody, tell them exactly what he’s doing. But unless you have that gate in your left hand that he has. it just don’t sound like ACDC as it shouldn’t, you know, it’s like, so I don’t really know where I, I depends on the song where I lie, you know, and I, I know that some stuff needs to be like pushed and some stuff needs to be pulled. And for me, it’s always a, it’s, it’s a constant being aware of that. You know, I’ve played with guys, uh, You know, like I played with Johnny from Social Distortion, his solo band and the bass player in that band, Brett Harding, the guy who plays bass in Social Distortion, one of the most giving musicians that you’ll ever play with because it’s just the nod of his head and seeing where his head goes. And that’s kind of what I follow. So I’m always kind of – and same thing with Brad. Like I watch him and I watch his fingers and see how his body movements are. And sometimes it’s like the band is feeling it different than you are. And sometimes you’re trying to pull them in one direction and they’re pulling you in the other. And it’s kind of interesting where sometimes you meet and sometimes you don’t. And you know when you don’t, when the other three dudes look at you and go like – maybe a little bit more this way. And you go, OK, we’ll go that way.

Ari Gold: Hey, Kai, you want to talk a little bit about what you’re doing with the Neil Young show before we start the crowd?

Kii Arens: Sure. There’s a benefit called Light Up the Blues that happens every year for for autism. And it’s always headlined by Neil Young. And right when the lockdown started, I began creating a show called Life of Kai, and it was a Zoom-based show, but with a lot of these Zoom conversations, you have a head here, a head here, a black space up on top, and black below. And, you know, I’m an artist and a video director, and I always thought, I want to create a show where not a single pixel is wasted. There’s always something to view and to do. And so they saw that. And they gave me the reins to kind of direct this show. We’re going to start out by shooting a video with Steven and Chris Stills. And I think Lucius is performing on this. I’m not sure if I’m supposed to be announcing all this, but I think I am because this event was already – supposed to have happened. And it is now turning into a show instead of a live event. And I’m excited to take these songs and put them in their right visual world that match the emotion and the song. I feel like that’s kind of my forte as a designer, as an artist, like as you could see Dolly Parton right above. I’ve been able to create a few of her album covers and bring forth the what I think the fans feel, because the truth is I’m just an ultimate fan in what I do. And by bringing that to the actual performance, it, I think it’ll enhance because a lot of the zoom shows, you know, Hey, I’m sitting in my living room right now. I’m going to got a guitar. I’m going to crank it. Oh, wait, my dog’s barking. You know, I’m just trying to, we’re in this state now and we’re going to be here.

Ari Gold: I would want to interrupt and say there’s some of the chat has complimented Scott’s dog. Just.

Kii Arens: I’m not even kidding. You’re like, that dog is amazing. So hello, she’s back. So that’s it in a nutshell.

Scott Reeder: Hey, you say Stephen Stills and I’m interested right away. That guy is I got to I got to give a shout out to the Manassas record. One of my all time favorite records and Chris Stills his first solo record on Atlantic Records. That was I was actually trying to get that gig at the time that he was just starting that because my band was still on Atlantic. And I was like, oh, man, it’d be great to start. Well, Fu Manchu actually started in 1990. So this is our 30th year.

Ari Gold: Wow, that’s so cool.

Scott Reeder: Yeah, this was our 30th anniversary year. And, you know, like everyone else, our tour dates got blown out and all that stuff. We’re actually working on something that, well, we’re hoping to have something going before the end of the year to actually we haven’t played yet. A gig this year, and we are hoping to do a 30th anniversary gig, which everyone will be able to see from a special, historical, wonderful location that needs to be saved, like all independent venues.

Ari Gold: Yeah, man. So if anybody, you know, let’s not be like England and tell artists that they need to retrain this. And that’s, you know, coming from a country that gave us the Beatles and Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin and all the great music, you know. So...

Scott Reeder: i don’t think that’s going to happen here but you know again those independent venues are a lot of the places that we play and a lot of places that bands that we like like high on fire and the melvins and clutch and uh you know those are just a few i know off the top of my head that would really be affected if those venues disappear so that that um uh we individually as uh And collectively, as a band, we wrote letters and sent letters to all of our California representatives and senators of both parties and the president trying to get them to support the Save Our Stages initiative. And it’s really, really, really, really important that that gets supported. It’s not it’s not about politics at all. It’s about everybody knows that when music comes music. People keep talking about when music comes back. I got news for you people. Music hasn’t gone away. It hasn’t gone away. It’s still here and we’re going to be making music. And when it’s time for people to go to shows and there are people that are going and we’re going to find ways to live within this and do gigs within it. But it’s going to be so cathartic. For people that it is really going to be like that drug that they get a taste of and they’re going to want more and more and more. There’s going to be more live gigs than ever before. So that is really what we’re all kind of working for. And we want those venues to be there.

Ari Gold: Guitars are coming back in a big, big way.

Scott Reeder: Guitar.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Even pop music.

Scott Reeder: oh yeah and i i’ve i’ve seen over the past i mean you could talk to our guitar player bob who has a lesson site play this riff.com which he does i mean he is busier i am busier with drum lessons than um and i have more uh kids you know that are 16 17 18 19 20 that want to form rock bands that’s And they want to get out and play. I’ve got a student right now that’s in a band called Slaves to Humanity, which is getting airplay on KLOS. These guys aren’t even 18, and they’ve got two songs in regular rotation in KLOS. Now, you tell me, when you were 17 and 18 and living in Los Angeles, if you could have done that, wouldn’t have that been your dream? Well, it would have been mine. And I’m very happy for him. And they’re writing good songs, and they’re open. It’s cool. you know, the guitar player is great. The singer is great. They’re all, you know, and they’re playing shows outside to people and kids are coming to shows. And so it’s talk is talk is a wonderful platform for music as well.

Ari Gold: Yeah.

Scott Reeder: And it’s, and so music hasn’t gone away. And so I’d like people to take from, from that, that, you know, when music comes back, music hasn’t gone anywhere. It’s not, it has, and it’s not going anywhere. So we need to support those venues as, as much as we can, uh, they’re super, super important for, and also for artists like you to have, you know, your stuff in as well for people to see, you know, put the independent poster artists. Uh, we made sure that when we, when we did those letters to the, uh, to, uh, the Congress that we cited all the people that design t-shirts that do silk screen posters on a local level, um, that sell those posters at our gigs, you know, that, that, um, That create fan sites and things like that. I mean, it’s like that’s it’s super, super important for local economies, because when we come through, it’s like people come and, you know, we’re lucky enough to have a fan base where people drive from out of town. So say this, they support local economies. They stay at hotels. They eat in local restaurants. They get gas along the way. It’s kind of like interstate commerce, which we do the same thing. We’re staying in hotels. We’re eating in restaurants. We’re doing all that stuff.

Kii Arens: By the way, you see the Roxy here?

Ari Gold: Yeah, I saw that.

Kii Arens: Yeah. They let me paint it.

Ari Gold: Yes! That’s definitely a Kai-touched Roxy. I like that. That’s cool.

Kii Arens: Thanks, man.

Ari Gold: I think it might be time for us to move to the movie.

Scott Reeder: Cool.

Ari Gold: Airdrummer.com is where we’re screening the movie. Anyone who can’t watch it right now can come there later. Go to adventuresandpower.com. Adventures of Power is on Amazon for free. Nice. And Neil Peart is in it. If you want to watch all the stuff I did with him, that’s on the Adventures of Power website, as well as in the Modern Drummer special, which is available to purchase at Modern Drummer. And all the money for that goes to support the cancer charity that is set up in his name.

Scott Reeder: Awesome.

Ari Gold: What else? Can I just get a moment of air drumming from Kai and Scott? Because I know deep down you’re air drummers. I’m going to say you go first.

Kii Arens: There we go. Kai does it first. Can you guess this air drum? Do it again.

Ari Gold: Oh, that’s Phil Collins.

Kii Arens: No, no, no. Billion dollar babies.

Ari Gold: Ah, nice. Nice. Very good, very good. You want to do subdivisions for us?

Scott Reeder: Me? I don’t think I could airdrum subdivisions. I don’t think I could do that. I could probably do a nice growl. That’s about that. But actually, and that’s not a growl. He’ll tell you that that’s Chad Channing all the way.

Ari Gold: Okay. So Chad Channing, there you go. Okay, you just did a Chad Channing.

Scott Reeder: I just did a Chad Channing.

Ari Gold: I heard him tell Bobby Z that it was Bobby Z. But anyway, that’s no problem. I don’t know. For my Guinness record, I did a combo of Phil Rudd, Neil Peart, and Tommy Lee.

Scott Reeder: Oh, that’s pretty good.

Ari Gold: Yeah. So thank you guys so much. Thank you so much for listening to Hot Sticks Drum Show. Please stream the movie Adventures of Power at airdrummer.com and support the Grammy Music Hairs Foundation. And don’t forget to subscribe at hotsticks.fm. And of course, feel free to ask me any questions or make drummer requests at Ari Gold on social media. And keep marching to the beat of your own drum, even if you don’t have one. Air drummers. Every one of us. Imagine that.

This interview originally appeared on Hotsticks.fm.

See more about Scott Reeder & Kii Arens on the official site for Adventures of Power, the world’s greatest (and only) Air Drum Movie!

Enjoyed this session? Explore more from the Interviews Archive.

The Versatile Drummer

Tucker’s career defies easy categorization. We unpack what it really means to move between hardcore, pop, television, and arena stages — and why versatility isn’t about compromise, but about mastering feel in radically different environments. From human imperfection to “humanly perfect,” Tucker reflects on the discipline required when every hit is under a microscope.

The Road, the Room, the Reality

The romance of touring fades fast in a windowless dressing room. Tucker speaks candidly about the psychological demands of life on the road, the importance of being a good bandmate, and why drumming is only half the job. The other half? Being someone people actually want to be around at 2 a.m. in another city.

Fatherhood & the Beat of Home

Becoming a father during the pandemic reshaped Tucker’s relationship to time, touring, and purpose. He shares the quiet complexity of balancing creative identity with family life — and how rhythm evolves when your most important audience is sleeping in the next room.

The Philosophy of Feel

Inspired by players like Stewart Copeland, Tucker articulates a philosophy of drumming rooted in energy, restraint, and instinct rather than mechanical perfection. Practice, he insists, should remain joyful — a space of curiosity, not punishment.

Watch video version here:

RAW TRANSCRIPT (Pardon the old-school glitches):

Ari Gold: Hello, hello. Welcome. Welcome to hotsticks.fm

Tucker Rule: Thanks for having me. How are you? I’m good, man. How are you?

Ari Gold: I’m doing I’m doing very well. I just was just filming. You know, favela in Rio. And having quite the experience of my of my life, so. So I’m going gray. Yeah. And I’m very excited to talk with you. You have such a strange and interesting career. I mean, playing like hard music, but then also playing in a boy band. It’s a combo that I have not that have not experienced before. So we’re gonna get into how you switch gears as a drummer. And I’m also pleased to know that you I believe, sit on DW drop DW stool. Is that correct?

Tucker Rule: I do I do I use DW hardware for sure.

Ari Gold: Well, I’m with DW air drummer going way back. In fact, in my movie Adventures of power, my character doesn’t ever sit at any drums. But in the final competition, he does sit on a stool against his principles, because he believes that you should be in squat position. But he sits on a DW Stool, which is sabotaged by the enemy. But there is a there’s a little product placement because I’m friends with Tom Lombardi. So like it zooms in to the to the DW. So that’s important to be obvious about it’s almost up with the DW. So well, very nice to meet you. Nice to meet you as well.

Tucker Rule: Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I have a lot I want to talk with you about, but it’s pretty specifically, you know, because we get different kinds of drummers on here and some who are really focused on metal. I mean, I’ve had a lot of heavy drummers and you play in a very, you know, heavy band or post. What do you you calling it post hardcore? You’re not calling a post post hardcore now that you’ve had three reunions? I believe.

Tucker Rule: I could be post post hardcore, but you know,

Ari Gold: okay. p p harder? I know. It’d be harder. For instance, you you have a birdie Dillon, is your is there? Yes. Yeah. Little Birdie. Yeah, she just turned to I think she might appreciate, you know, PP hardcore as a kind of new new style of drumming.

Tucker Rule: Yeah, especially because she’s starting to potty train soon. So, you know, we’re, the PAP word gets thrown around a lot here.

Ari Gold: Okay, well, it’s if you you know, if you want to go 50/50 with me on the patent for that we could, you know, do a whole line. of I don’t know what it would be toilet seats that you could draw on?

Tucker Rule: On the deal. You had me at at hello. So,

Ari Gold: yeah, okay. I see you’re a skater to your well, this ultimately will be on audio but those of you who are listening, Tucker is is flanked by two beautiful hit definitely custom skateboards. Do you want to tell us what’s there and describe it for those who are only listening.

Tucker Rule: So over this shoulder, is my buddy Frank’s band who I played it it’s called Frank arrow in the future violence and that’s the first single was called Young and doomed.

Ari Gold: Or those of you who don’t know guitarist for MCR, who has his own beautiful albums, couple of like two albums right or three. I think there’s three, yeah, three to a two plus an EP if I if I’ve done my research correctly. I try to believe so yeah, I may know better than you.

Tucker Rule: I mean, I only played in one incarnation of them.

Ari Gold: Are you scared that you’re gonna get replaced by an air drummer like me?

Tucker Rule: I’m always scared. I’m scared of everything. Okay, over this shoulder is an old skateboard that my band put out a bunch of a bunch of years ago, this guy named Brian Dory from hooligan Skate Company makes these decks and, you know, we gave him some artwork, and he threw it on there and it looks great. So, but yeah, I used to skateboard I don’t really anymore because I feel like that’s the kiss of death if you want to be a professional drummer.

Ari Gold: Yeah, it’s true. I mean, I have I have a titanium in my wrist from biking. And I broke my arm while shooting m air drum movie. Adventures of Power. You know, I had to stop production. But I did shoot a couple scenes with a cast. So if you watch the movie, you can see there’s a few scenes where, where I didn’t aerodrome we kind of like, looked for the very few scenes where I’m not here grooming and, and shot those and my arm is kind of down on the side. One guy gag where I had to tear off my sweatpants. And I couldn’t because I couldn’t move my arm. So I fly off by attaching them to a phone booth and then ran away from the phone booth and then get pulled off. You know?

Tucker Rule: These are the things that knock on wood trying to avoid. Yeah.

Ari Gold: So and Thursday is about to open for my chemical romance on tour, right?

Tucker Rule: Yeah, I believe that’s in September, October, something like that.

Tucker Rule: But didn’t you play for my chemical romance as well at one point, or am I correct?

Tucker Rule: In 2007 or 2008. I did a month playing drums for them when their their drummer at the time was was injured. They called me and I went in and filled in for like, I think it was like seven or eight shows. It was the Pacific Rim. It was like Australia, New Zealand, Malaysia. Singapore.

Ari Gold: Okay, so you must be friends with the drummer in such a way that you guys can, you know, he doesn’t feel scared of you taking his position in any permanent way. But you will be on tour with him again. So if he were to get into skateboarding accident, I’m not saying he will. But if he were to get in a skateboarding accident, you might just happen to be on tour with them. I’m just saying, well,

Tucker Rule: He’s two or three drummers ago. Oh, really? Okay.

Tucker Rule: All right. Yeah. Okay. Nonetheless, you’ll be on tour and you know, the songs you’ll you’ll be air drumming to like My Chemical Romance?

Tucker Rule: Yes. Yes, we actually it was funny. We actually did their comeback show in 2019, and LA and I was, you know, sitting with Frank, and I was like, I think, like, I’m the only drummer in this room that has played almost every single song that we played in the building tonight. Yeah, it was just a funny little funny little thing that went through my head.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Well, actually, you don’t know in the building, because there could be fans out there who have learned everything by Thursday and everything by MCR, but not on stage. Not on stage. Yes, that’s true. That’s true. Well, unless I hope they could be playing in their high school cover bands.

Tucker Rule: I hope they all know all that Thursday and My Chemical Romance songs. I hope they’ve played them. Because that’s that’s what we do this for right? To inspire people and make them Yeah,

Ari Gold: It’s the whole reason that I make art. It’s the reason I make movies. I hope that people who watch my movies are changed by them in some in some small way. Maybe I infect their dreams with some kind of positive message I’d like adventures or power is a comedy that is extremely positive, ultimately, in its messaging. And I got a lot of flack for that when it came up. And now I think the world has gotten so messed up that I think people like the positive poor, like I toured through Eastern Europe, showing the film. And people were you know, of course hadn’t heard of it, because it’s a small movie, but like, now it’s like people are really like wanting it and with the stuff that’s going on. Out the window, where I’m sitting right now in terms of people being afraid of a certain neighbor. You know, positivity is a good thing.

Tucker Rule: I think we need it. I think we need a little a little PMA.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Wait, PMA? What is PMA?

Tucker Rule: positive mental attitude. Okay.

Ari Gold: And we need PDA because there’s nothing to bring out PMA, like PDA.

Tucker Rule: Exactly. Everyone loves a hug. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Ari Gold: So I just have to hear a little bit about you playing drums for the wanted, which is for those who don’t know, it’s a boy band. From UK.

Tucker Rule: Yeah, from the UK. Okay. So, so when, when Thursday, so Thursday was on island Island Records, and we had this person that worked with us named Eric Wong, and when Thursday kind of took a hiatus in 2011, I messaged him and I was like, hey, you know, if there’s any artists that you have upcoming or something, and they need to do a showcase, or if you need somebody to touring drummer or whatever, please don’t hesitate to ask because Thursday’s is off right now. And, you know, rather than, you know, give up my my want and need to play drums for a living. And, you know, I would I would like to work for anybody who, who you have, as you know, and literally a week later, he called me and he’s like, Yeah, I’ve got this, I’ve got this band. And they’re doing a showcase next week, and I need you to put together a guitar player and a bass player. And, you know, would you be down? And I was like, Yeah, anything for you? I was like, what are they called? He’s like the wanted, and I was like, okay, cool. And at the time, I, you know, I was playing it Thursday, and I was also playing a hardcore band called Murphy’s Law, which is like a legendary New York hardcore band. And so I just assumed that, you know, my resume shows, you know, you know, like you said, post post hardcore, punk, you know, heavier music. So I was like, oh, that must be like, a punk band with a name like the wanted. So I agreed without, without, you know, knowing anything about the band. And like, you know, I kind of looked up a song afterwards. And I was like, oh, man, this is this is like a, literally, a boy band. And I was like, and I messaged him back I was like, Is this the right thing that I’m looking back? He’s like, Yes, this is it. I was like, okay, all right. Well, let’s, let’s, let’s make it work. So I hit up two of my friends, Eric oddness on base and Brian de nieve who played guitar. And we learned the songs. And we played with them for a couple of years until they went on a hiatus themselves. So.

Ari Gold: So how does that work? It’s like, the boy bands out front. Are you guys like, technically part of the band? Are you? Like, what’s the? How does the market

Tucker Rule: we are just the backing band. So we have we are basically crew. Okay, you know, which is awesome, which is, you know, you have, the only responsibility you have is to show up and play the songs correctly. You never want the artists to turn around and give you a scathing look, because you played it wrong, you know, you want them to feel like they can, they can unleash their, their, their vocals on the crowd, without having to worry about what’s happening behind them.

Ari Gold: Right. Okay. You could have like a, you know, infection coming out of your, your cheek, and, you know, blood coming down the other side of your face, and it wouldn’t matter, because then no one’s looking at you. You’re like, no

Tucker Rule: one would be off, no one would know, and no one would care. And they’d be like, get a band aid. Yeah,

Ari Gold: okay. Yeah, that does sound good. Although it sounds actually in a way stressful because at least, if you’re part of the band, you can rock out and when you do a, you know, some kind of like double bass role that kind of like goes off the rails, it’s sort of buried under the guitars. And, and, and your energy is makes up for it by being, you know, high energy. But with this, like, it’s probably super crisp in the mix. And like every hit is like amplified in a terrifyingly clear way. Because that’s really,

Tucker Rule: yeah, and most of these shows were, well, at least in the UK, and a couple other places were arenas. So it’s, you know, it’s very big sounding. And then a lot of the shows that we did were TV performances, which is, which is even more scary, because everything is so under a microscope, because it’s trapped on television forever. So, you know, and a lot of a lot of the stuff in the States. This was there we were we were, you know, basically, this was the first time people in the states were hearing this band. So like we did Ellen DeGeneres, and that was their first television performance in the, in the United States. So it was, you know, it’s pretty important to be, you know, as humanly perfect as possible when it comes to playing your part of the music.

Ari Gold: Yes, so humanly perfect is a term that I think might be an interesting question for a drummer because like, obviously, with quantizing, and mixes, you’re quantizing when you’re recording, like a lot of drummers get turned inhumanly perfect, particularly at night and it’s horrifying to me that there’s a lot so much hard music that’s quantized and I mean when you work with your Dave Friedman, right, I did he so he’s what did he do with some Thursday records, right?

Tucker Rule: Yeah, he did three Thursday records so we’ve done a fair a lot of recording with him.

Ari Gold: Yeah, so super obsessive with sound, but but also with feel. I’m with a man And then he’s not sitting there like carving out like the exact, you know, spot for each hi hat thing.

Tucker Rule: No, no, no, absolutely not we are the take is the take, you know what I mean? Like if if everyone in the room is like, Oh, that was good, and you listen back and nothing is like wildly sticking out, then that’s the take he’s he’s very much about vibe and about, you know, the Sonics of everything. So it’s more about the performance in the field than it is about striving for perfection, you know.

Ari Gold: So when you work with him, you track just like bass and drums first rest of the whole band playing or what’s, what’s happening, the whole

Tucker Rule: band is playing and we’re basically trying to, you know, keep as much as possible, you know, obviously, there’s overdubbing when it comes to guitars and bass, but, you know, it’s, it’s about the performance, and, you know, it’s about

Ari Gold: the initial length on vocals, live to

Tucker Rule: vocals usually come later, you know, because we, you know, with that, you got to kind of save the voice a little bit. And, you know, a lot of times with with Thursday, our singer Jeff is still kind of working out vocal parts, even in the studio, you know, so it’s, it’s, he’s got a lot of it done and down and ready to go. But, you know, there’s a lot of fine tuning that’s still happening before he goes to, to actually record his vocals.

Ari Gold: Right. Okay. Okay. But basically, you’re talking about, like, at least 80% of the track is like that initial take?

Tucker Rule: Yeah, yeah, pretty much unless somebody you know, I mean, there’s been songs that we’ve scrapped a whole guitar part, you know, and been like, okay, let’s re record that part. You know, you’re all pretty much all in isolation. And, yeah, it’s about getting, you know, obviously, first, it’s all about the drums, getting the drums, good, you know, the whole everything can be scrapped, except for the drums, you know, so the drums are good, we’re good. And people can overdub afterwards, but I know a lot of the vibe that we were trying to capture was live.

Ari Gold: My mom was in recording sessions. as a, as a girlfriend was a whole other story. But for Santana, where they’d have like, you know, 15 guys in a room. And because of the way because of the number of musicians they’d have, and the time period, they weren’t, they weren’t in isolation at all. And she talked about, like, you know, they do a track, and they play it for like, four days over. And if one conga hit, was off, or just we had bad fuel, or whatever, they, you know, light would come on, and then have to go back to one again, I don’t know how they kept, like, the energy going, but

Tucker Rule: see that that, to me is crazy. And it’s, it sounds painful, but awesome at the same time, because I always say this, like, I feel like any song I’ve ever recorded, I’m the worst at it, when I’m recording it, you know, it’s not till after and you go on tour, or you, you know, you take it on the road, do you get good at playing your own song? You know, you spend a lot of time molding this putting this thing together that you only like, you know, you don’t you’re not taking it on the road and actually like going through the fine tuning and then like learning what feels right. Like

Ari Gold: I lost you, I can’t hear you for I can’t hear you suddenly.

Tucker Rule: Sorry that somebody somebody called me. Oh, they called me so I had to hang up. I was just saying that, like, you know, I always feel like I’m the worst at playing the song when I’m recording it. You know, it’s not till afterwards, and I’ve sat with it. And I’ve heard every single thing that’s happening in the vocal part, that you actually kind of get good at playing the song.

Ari Gold: You go back in the studio again?

Tucker Rule: No, I wish I wish I could a lot. You know, but But yeah, once it’s done, it’s done, you know, and you got to live with it.

Ari Gold: That was editing a movie, like, you know, once you figure out the edit of a movie, and you cut out, you know, half of the dialogue and maybe 20% of the scenes, then you look back and you’re like, Oh, now that I know what the movie should be. I’d love to go back and shoot it and really, really get that stuff. Right. But

Tucker Rule: yeah, that’s also kind of that’s also kind of the beauty of it. You know what I mean? Because you make what you make it work. Yeah.

Ari Gold: So when we got a question, someone asked me how you got the Seth Meyers gig?

Tucker Rule: I think just I don’t really know to be honest with you. I was at a of Netflix premiere of a drummer show, which I don’t know if it ever aired but

Ari Gold: I don’t want to hear oh, what’s that? What’s it called? Because I’m actually told by the same two people at Netflix about like trying to get them to because Adventures of Power on Amazon and it should be on Netflix and there’s the Fred Armisen drum. That’s what that was what it was with Fred Armisen. Okay, so they did run it. Oh, they did run it. Yeah, I’m

Tucker Rule: not sure I never I don’t know that I ever saw it but but I know that it was this was like an initial kind of like, like check it out, you know, so I went to I went to it and it was a bunch of like, because I lived in Brooklyn at the time was a bunch of us local, local New York drummers hanging out and Eric Lederman, who’s the producer of late I said, just came up to me and was like, hey, you know, he’s like, I know, we know a lot of people in common he’s like, but I would like to have you on the show. So I think a lot of it had to do with, you know, being friends with a lot of the same people, but also being a local drummer. And, you know, with that show, it’s always good to have something, you know, they like to have something to promote for you as the drummer, which this is the first show that I that I know of that, you know, actually, you know, shows drummers some love, you know, besides like, you know, Conan with Max Weinberg, this is a totally, totally different thing. We have a rotating cast of like, pro drummers come in, and I just it’s a really, it’s been a really great thing for the drumming community.

Ari Gold: Yeah. We got another question here. That was long. Is there plans to release the three world all the time outtakes for its 20th anniversary?

Tucker Rule: Are there plans for it? Not? Not at this point in time, but you know, I guess we’re open suggestion. I don’t know.

Ari Gold: I guess that is the suggestion right there. Yeah. So and So let’s see. I mean, what I I know that your home life and having a you have one daughter, is that right? I have a daughter? Yeah. So how do you negotiate life, you know, on the road with being a new dad or new ish dad?

Tucker Rule: Well, luckily, for me, and also unluckily for me and the rest of the world, when the pandemic hit, she was born on March 27, of 2020. So we were literally, you know, I don’t know 20 days into the pandemic. So I was able to spend basically the first year and eight months of her life at home, which wouldn’t have happened, had it been the world would have been normal, quote, unquote. So I got really lucky in that aspect. But But now when I you know, I’ve gone on a couple of tours, you know, recently and, you know, my wife works from home, but she’s got a very demanding jobs. So she’s, you know, she has an office in the house. And so, if I’m away, we have to either hire someone or one of our parents comes over and, and watches her but for me, it’s it’s a it’s a pain in the ass because and I don’t know if I’m allowed to say yes, but I just said it twice.

Ari Gold: You’re talking about donkeys? Right? Yes, donkeys?

Tucker Rule: Yeah. So she, she, you know, at about a year and eight year nine months, she they’re not very good at at the at FaceTime. You know, they take the phone and they run around the house with it so that that could get a little bit like, Oh, I miss my daughter, but like, she doesn’t really want to talk to me. She just wants to run around the house with the phone in her hand. So it’s, you know, that was tough, but, you know, she’s getting older. She’s starting to understand that, you know, she hits stuff. She hit me with the drumstick today so hard in my wrist. That my wife heard it from another room. So she’s she’s, she knows what

Ari Gold: she yelled. She heard the smack and the expletive afterwards, but Right. Okay. The donkey afterwards? Yeah, the donkey? Yeah. Well, I mean, it does sound in a way like the pandemic timing was was helpful, you know, for your daughter and you to bond. Yeah, absolutely. So in a way, hats off to you for timing. I know. So what I’d love to know, you know, my drumming career started with with John Bonham and Neil period, what did your drumming obsession start with? And who were you air drumming to before you actually picked up drums?

Tucker Rule: Oh, man. I mean, I didn’t start playing until I was 18 like an actual drum kit. But But prior to that, you know, I remember like getting early Motley Crue records and early Metallica records and air drumming, whatever I thought was the drum. You know, like a lot of the things I was doing with my hands were actually happening with their feet. You know what I mean? So it wasn’t till later in life, and I started going to like hardcore and punk shows that I could actually watch the drummer play and then I understood what sounds they were making with what limbs so I was always laser focused. So you know, I found a lot like Barnum was a huge, huge influence on me. Uh, you know, once I got to the drum kit, you know, Stewart Copeland was a huge, huge influence on me because I just I love how tight he plays. He’s just a machine.

Ari Gold: Yeah, we’ve talked a lot about, Hi, Daniel, I have a friend who is a friend in many ways, but also a kind of talked about your refugee from Ukraine. We were shooting in Ukraine. A film of mine. And in very recently, and now he’s, I think he’s in Paris. But he is supporting, supporting our all air drum. To drum things. I just want to give a shout out to him, but so. So, yeah, it’s your coupling was a huge influence. I mean, I was not last week’s podcast a week before, kind of gotten a little these little confused, but we’re talking about the sound of Stuart Copeland’s snare, there’s something about that, that I think just the backbeat, just his snare alone, galvanized a lot of people to play the drums. It was something it was, like, powerful, but also light on his feet. You know, obviously, I love the sound of Led Zeppelin drums, and you know, what, you know, as a kid, I was, like, scared of them. And but also, you know, excited by it. But struggle to recover from his drums always sounded like, it was like, your heartbeat in a really positive way, like, pushing you forward. And like, wow, each time is like, oh, you know? Yeah. And it’s amazing how a drummer can have a sound that like, I mean, how much do you think that’s him versus the producers? And men in your relationships, you know, you’ve had different producers? Like, do you are you sort of insistent on a certain sound for your tuning and for your snare and your toms are, you kind of go with the flow based on the album,

Tucker Rule: I kind of go, you know, I always have a, you know, a sound in mind when I go in, like a record that inspired me or a drum sound that inspired me on a certain record, but you know, it always, I always go with, with what feels best, you know, what I mean? And if if it sounds like, cool enough, I know people tweak the sound, you know, afterwards. And so I always I always try to get it, you know, close to what’s in my head, but what’s in my head changes constantly and someone like Stewart Copeland, like he is just him, you know, what I mean? There’s, there’s, you know, he’s just got he’s got a touch to the drums that is different than than anyone else. And he also has this kind of, you know, frenetic energy that I think is is, is almost off the rails, but somehow is glued together completely at the same time. It’s, it’s really fun to watch him play. And it’s also really fun to hear him play because you can hear that energy in the recording.

Ari Gold: Yeah. I mean, you know, he grew up not listening to rock music. I think that’s one of the major things about him. He was in Lebanon and Egypt and places like that. So he was getting all kinds of influence that was not straight back beat us. Yeah.

Tucker Rule: And that’s and I think that’s why the police became the police because, you know, it’s just its own thing. You know, you can tell that these people came from all different backgrounds that make this crazy, you know, punk band,

Ari Gold: you know? Yeah. So okay, so those and those were your we have pretty similar influences. I was grooming to my I wasn’t so much grooming to Motley Crue, although I admire the rotating cage for sure.

Tucker Rule: And the stick twirl you had to get into the standard. That was

Ari Gold: what I am in the Guinness Book. As you know, of course everyone in the streets is screaming right now Hey, in the Guinness Book for Air drumming. I was when I did my my Guinness Book or Guinness World Record thing that they wanted for for drums for drummers to be included and we we did a Neil Peart Toto Tom Phil and I did a Tommy Lee stick twirl I would have done a rotating cage but I don’t know how to levitate myself yet. So maybe if I you know if my meditation practice stays consistent I’ll I’ll be able to levitate and do the Tommy Lee rotating cage without any gear.

Tucker Rule: Exactly. That’s enough time that you have. You have to protect your title. You know, I think this is the way to do it.

Tucker Rule: Oh, yeah, it’s true. Somebody might come up I did hear someone coming on saying yeah, I’m gonna try to get in the Guinness Book for air drumming and I was like, Wait a minute, we gotta talk

Tucker Rule: no no, no.

Ari Gold: I conducted 2300 people I think it is. So that’s the current record is I was conducting an air drum ensemble. So if anyone wants to try to talk that, you know, let me know. good luck.

Ari Gold: Good luck. So well, I we’re at our half hour mark had been trying to keep these to half an hour because the punk in me wants to up a little bit more like Napalm Death where there’s like a really long title and a really short song. You know, this Yeah. You know, songs that are like, the ectoplasm of your exploding small intestine that made me want to kill 40,000 people and the song goes. And that’s it.

Tucker Rule: Yeah, like eight seconds of blast beat and then then there.

Ari Gold: So, do you have any advice? I guess that’s that’s a big thing, you know, for the show. Because like, there are a lot of people listening, who are aspiring drummers or these days, you know, there’s this big thing, obviously, you have Instagram drummers, people who learn incredible technique by themselves. But then the question is, how do they become artists who can work with other people in a room or on a stage? Do you have any, any advice that you can share?

Tucker Rule: I mean, I think, you know, I think be kind first of all, and I really think that that, you know, first of all, the drumming is isn’t like a competition, you know, it’s, we should all be helping one another learn and get further and, and whatever it is. But I also think that, you know, it’s really 50% proficiency at the instrument, but also 50% at being a person that can be a good roommate on tour and be a good, good, you know, vibe on tour. And, you know, it’s a lot of both, you know, because the road can be a dark, dark place and a tough place to be. And a lot of the things that come along with drumming and being in a band looks so glamorous, but in, in reality, you’re literally sitting in a dank dressing room for most of your day, like looking at, you know, drawings on the wall that people have left prior. So you have to have a good vibe and be a good person. And then also, you know, practice, practice should be fun. I’m in my practice room right now. Because as soon as we get off, I’m going to practice because my daughter is sleeping. So

Ari Gold: wait, so that that’s going to wake her up? No,

Tucker Rule: no, because my studio is in my garage, which is detached from my house. That’s the only reason my wife wanted to move to the suburbs. I was like, if we do that, I need a garage that’s detached from the house. So No one wakes up and no one can complain.

Tucker Rule: My daughter’s asleep. So I’m going to start playing my drums.

Tucker Rule: Right next to her. Yeah, yeah.

Ari Gold: Okay. Well, thank you so much for for joining us and for sharing some of your wisdom with the HotSticks.fm. World. And I encourage everyone to go out on tour and check out Thursday that’s opening for My Chemical Romance starting when

Tucker Rule: sometime in September, I think October I don’t know, somewhere around

Ari Gold: Keep drumming and create good things in the world because there’s a lot of effed up stuff going on. So absolutely.

Tucker Rule: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. It’s been a it’s been a really fun time.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Okay. Enjoy your practice. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to hot sticks drum show. Please stream the movie Adventures of power at Air drummer.com and support the Grammy MusiCares Foundation. And don’t forget to subscribe at Hutz tix.fm. And of course, feel free to ask me any questions or make drummer requests at Ari Gold on social media and keep marching to the beat of your own drum. Even if you don’t have one. We everyone imagined.

This interview originally appeared on Hotsticks.fm.

See more about Tucker Rule on the official site for Adventures of Power, the world’s greatest (and only) Air Drum Movie!

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Carlos traces his earliest influences through punk and speed—then explains how reggae became the foundation of feel. The conversation moves through technique, tone, and the deeper question underneath it all: what do you keep from your origin genre, and what do you let evolve?

Touring Family, Not Rivalry

Matt breaks down the real relationship between Dirty Heads and Sublime with Rome—less competition, more kinship. Shared management, shared history, shared stages, shared ecosystem. It’s the kind of music “family tree” fans rarely get to hear explained clearly.

The Ozarks Story (aka: “What did I just hear?”)

Carlos describes playing a biker rally that was not a socially distanced show—complete with chaos, mud, and that very specific American energy where anything can become a concert venue if the universe blinks.

Practice as Survival

Under all the jokes and stories is a deeper thread: rhythm as a mental health tool. The way musicians use groove, movement, and repetition to stay sane when the world gets weird.

Watch video version here:

RAW TRANSCRIPT (Pardon the old-school glitches):

Ari Gold: How about you, Powell? You like drums? I’m not pussyfooting. I’m double bass drumming. Welcome to Hot Sticks Drum Show, presented in conjunction with Drum Channel. I’m Ari Gold, Guinness World Record holder for air drumming and director and star of the air drum cult comedy Adventures of Power, featuring Neil Peart and an all-star cast. Stream Adventures of Power at airdrummer.com and support the Grammy Music Hairs Foundation. and check out other episodes at hotsticks.fm. And now, let’s chat with the world’s greatest drummers and more about music and the human heartbeat. Imagine that... I am here with Matt Ochoa and Carlos Verdugo, who have played together. They have brought the Southern California ska, reggae, rock experience to the masses. Single-handedly. Single-handedly, actually. Single-handedly, but double bass drumedly.

Matt Ochoa: Yes, yes.

Ari Gold: Actually, no, Carlos is a single bass drum. He’s not doing a... Currently single bass drum.

Carlos Verdugo: Yeah. Currently, yeah. Seeking other bass drum.

Ari Gold: Under the level of Terry Bozio with his bass drums, one for each note in the scale. So, yeah, so we’re talking about drums. We’re talking about my movie, Adventures of Power. I’m in the Guinness Book of Records for everything.

Matt Ochoa: That’s amazing.

Carlos Verdugo: That’s amazing.

Matt Ochoa: I didn’t know you could do that.

Ari Gold: I didn’t know I could do that either.

Matt Ochoa: That’s pretty impressive.

Ari Gold: So, so yeah, I would love to hear a little bit about, well, first of all, I noticed that you guys both cite Stuart Copeland as influences drummers. Is he like for you guys, the foundation of like the merging of rock and pop and, and reggae and ska?

Matt Ochoa: Yeah.

Carlos Verdugo: Yeah.

Matt Ochoa: I would say so.

Carlos Verdugo: I would say so.

Ari Gold: I mean, have you ever air drummed to Stuart Copeland?

Matt Ochoa: Oh yeah. Many.

Carlos Verdugo: Oh yeah.

Ari Gold: Oh yeah. Yeah. And I never get the parts right though. I’m always off. Like, I think I know what he’s going to do, but then he changes it up.

Matt Ochoa: Yeah.

Carlos Verdugo: Yeah.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Stuart Copeland, amazing drummer. He what’s interesting, you know, Neil Peart is in my movie and they seem like such different drummers, but there was a great mutual respect and friendship between those two guys. And you can actually hear some Stuart Copeland influence and some Rush stuff from the early 80s. Did you ever get to meet Stuart Copeland?

Matt Ochoa: I haven’t met him yet, but I did send him a Airdrum video last week that I filmed on Mount Whitney in the snow. And he liked it on Twitter.

Ari Gold: Yes. Yes. All right. I know the guys at Modern Drummer know him, too. So, you know, maybe one of them will will, you know, are getting some hearts on Modern Drummer, which is nice. But, yeah, I’d love to know, Carlos, why don’t you, you know, because you’re in the top of my screen and you actually have a real drum set, which makes me a little insecure as an air drummer. But I’d love to know how you got into rock, into playing, but also, like, did you start thinking about, like, you know reggae ska type beats or you know what was your first influence

Carlos Verdugo: i mean my my first upbringing was a lot of punk rock you know so my first band was punk and and i kind of

Ari Gold: well what is punk to you because punk means different things to different people

Carlos Verdugo: well i mean when i was growing up i i mean i’m i’m kind of a little bit later generation but you know i like a lot of suicidal tendencies um ideas last week on the show

Ari Gold: Oh, awesome. Awesome. Yeah.

Carlos Verdugo: I mean, just, you know, all kinds of different bands, you know, face to face was a kind of newer punk rock band that I liked. I liked a lot of the descendants, you know, Bill Stevenson.

Ari Gold: Okay. He’s one of my favorite drummers. Yeah. I, I, I had a girlfriend who was really into descendants and I was a little confused because I felt like drums should be louder. Yeah. But I never saw them live. So the way it’s mixed, it doesn’t sound as intense and aggressive as metal drumming or suicidal tendencies, the way they mix their drums, where it’s like you feel like if you’re standing next to the drummer, you might get killed. Whereas the tendency has a more technical approach.

Carlos Verdugo: Well, suicidal tendencies had Brooks Wackerman playing for him for a while on Freedom, that album. And that drumming is super technical.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, so you got in through punk and speed was, speed was your thing, but then, you know, playing with not speed, but like, you know, speed, like fast.

Carlos Verdugo: Yeah. You know, I meant speed. You never know. I mean, the original meaning of speed. I mean, it is COVID age right now. So, I mean, you never know. people are going doing crazy stuff

Ari Gold: yeah

Carlos Verdugo: um well so but but sublime with realm is not a um either speed or speed um the drug uh yeah you know that’s not the foundation of the feel yeah reggae is the is the feel you know but there’s a lot of punk rock influence you know which is does have a lot of fast uh drumming you know But I feel like Stuart Copeland was kind of my bridge into reggae, you know, because he had so many really cool reggae licks and different... diverse ways of playing the drums that you wouldn’t hear as a normal something on the radio that you’d be listening to you know i mean he was listening to lebanese music as a child so oh wow there’s a lot of influence of north africa in his sound as well which i don’t think the other guys in the band really had that but you you know that’s one of the things that gave it such a weird uh sound i think he’s very worldly i would say

Ari Gold: Yeah. I think his dad was in the CIA. If I have that correctly.

Carlos Verdugo: That explains a lot.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Um, so, and Matt, like, so you, I’d love to hear a little about your, um, your background, what got you into drumming, what inspired you?

Matt Ochoa: Yeah. Uh, I started, um, basically in, in, uh, middle school, like a concert band, you know, uh, It was one of the classes that I had.

Ari Gold: I mean, you’re playing classical music?

Matt Ochoa: Well, I mean, you know. It’s a grand old flag.

Ari Gold: Yeah, it was like, okay, what would you like to play? You have flute and trumpet and trombone, and then there’s the percussion section. And I saw the drums, and I was like, I mean, anything to make loud noise. So basically gravitated towards that.

Matt Ochoa: Did you start on a single triangle or something like that? Basically, you have to take a test. As long as you can go right, left, right, left. And basically just, you know, stay on the beat, then you passed and you were able to do it. So that was extremely difficult for me, but I eventually passed. And growing up, it was just, yeah, paradiddles was like, that was the hard part. That was, that was like, you know, level six or something like that.

Ari Gold: By the way, I’m going to turn Modern Drummer on the side and just say who we are. And for those, you guys, what are your Instagram accounts so I can give it to the Modern Drummer people?

Matt Ochoa: Yeah. At MattyDH.

Carlos Verdugo: And mine is at C-L-O-S-D-R-U-M-S.

Ari Gold: C-L-O-S-D-R-U-M-S?

Carlos Verdugo: Yes, sir.

Ari Gold: Okay. Um, pin. Okay. There we go. So you better now. Oh, and I should say sublime with Rome and, uh, very heads. Okay. Whatever. This is high tech. We’re living in, we’re streaming to the people. This is a live show and it’s like the microphone’s broken. We’re still, we’re still rocking. So, um, And so I’d love to hear a little bit about how Dirty Heads and Sublime with Rome kind of our cousin bands, how they work together, how they inspire each other. You guys have played on stage together as part of these bands, but as part of other touring bands. Like, what’s it like? Is there a rivalry between you?

Matt Ochoa: No, it’s more like it’s like it’s like a brotherhood actually is a. When Dirty Heads, I’d say 2010, maybe 2008, 2010, we were going to a studio in Costa Mesa. And there was this kid, Rome, that was kind of just going to the studio and writing his own music and whatnot. And we kind of just met Rome at the studio and... a cool kid wrote awesome songs and started collaborating with him. He started writing with our guys. I started doing some sessions for his solo stuff. And that’s kind of just how we became like friends and just to kind of know each other and all that kind of stuff. And then sublime with Rome formed and we have the same management. So it’s all kind of been like in the same family as far as Rome and dirty heads and, and yeah so that’s been 12 12 years now probably 12 years now and we’ve since then we’ve had like tours together and and before that actually i i used to play in a band called tribal seeds and we played with dirty heads a bunch of times and and uh We actually did a tour with Tribal Seeds, Sublime with Rome, and Dirty Heads. And that’s pretty much how I got there.

Ari Gold: Yeah, you were in Tribal Seeds at that time, right?

Matt Ochoa: Yeah.

Ari Gold: Yeah.

Matt Ochoa: Yeah, I was in Tribal Seeds at that time. And so that’s how I got to know all the guys. And then kind of the next tour that we went on, or that I went on with Sublime with Rome, it felt like my second tour because we hung out a bunch and it was all good times.

Ari Gold: That’s right. Now, do you ever go back to like first wave ska in terms of, you know, studying influences? Like, I happen to be like a huge fan of like Justin Hines and, you know, early Toots and the Mantles and this kind of stuff. Like, is that stuff like too ancient history and the drums too crunched to even know what to do with it in terms of influence? Because the recordings back then, you know, they’d have like one microphone in the room of... you know the back of a record shop but you know and the drums and the piano would sort of become one instrument from the recording but do you guys ever listen to that stuff or

Matt Ochoa: yeah i feel like that’s the just the evolution of music you know everything changes down the line and things have to get more technical for some reason but those are magical recordings you know that that uh

Ari Gold: Yeah, there’s something for me in the lack of fidelity that I really like in those early, early first wave ska recordings. And actually, we’re working on doing a show with some like second wave ska, like specials and untouchables and people like that.

Matt Ochoa: Awesome.

Ari Gold: Awesome. And I love that the influence to that island show. has sort of has spread out in such a beautiful way into different sounds that it’s infused you know dirty heads obviously is not exclusively in that genre but like it’s still the lineage is still in the music and in the feeling the feeling of like sunniness yeah which uh for me is like a lifesaver when i like i listen to I listened to music with, with Jamaican influence to cheer me up and people like, Oh, you’re happy all the time. I was like, no, I’m, I’m happy all the time because I listened to this. Otherwise I would be screwed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, So by a message. Oh, by the way, Archie, do you guys know Archie’s ice cream? I’m not sure if you personally or someone on your team, but I just I want to give a big shout out to Archie’s ice cream. A guy named Shan who has this rock and roll ice cream truck that you can rent for your events. And he’s how we ended up meeting. So. So thank you. Orange County area or LA area, if you want to rock, his ice cream director is signed by all the biggest rock stars in the world. So you guys belong in there. We got to get you over there.

Matt Ochoa: Yeah, I’ll get in there.

Ari Gold: Yeah, I’ll get in there. Well, I’ll sign your personal. I’m going to get inside your drum set back there because as an air drummer, I have insecurity issues when I see a guy and I’m like Carlos with an actual drum set.

Carlos Verdugo: Oh, come on. This is a green screen back here, actually.

Ari Gold: OK, good.

Carlos Verdugo: Yeah, it’s one of those background filters for Zoom.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, I get, because I’m in the Guinness Book for Air Drumming, I do get a lot of questions. Do I play drums? And I have played drums, but I’m definitely a better air drummer.

Carlos Verdugo: I am a drummer.

Ari Gold: Nice. And so, Matt, you were able to watch Adventures of Power?

Matt Ochoa: Yes.

Ari Gold: Tell me if you have any moments of touching yourself watching my movie.

Matt Ochoa: The entire time.

Ari Gold: okay what part of the movie was like this my face was melting acid yeah no i was i was said jokingly that we’re drug-free zone here at airgomer.com but um uh that my movie is is good on acid but but that was a joke it was a joke i’m going back now i’m going back for a second round um after this what what do you what are you guys doing to keep yourself sane during lockdown i see matt is learning how to play string instruments because as a drummer he thinks you can also do melody

Matt Ochoa: i mean i i kind of have just been using this time like i’ve been playing drums all the time um i have a uh a rolling kit in the garage uh shout out to roland thank you awesome but not only that like i’ve been using the time to like pick up another instrument or or or take an online course of mixing or just doing home projects or you know learning how to build a bench that comes out very

Ari Gold: are you doing carpentry are you really doing carpentry

Matt Ochoa: i’m attempting to do i bought a circular saw

Ari Gold: By the way, there’s a lot of I love you’s and hearts in the comments, which to me indicates the possibility of bro love. But if it’s not bro love, then there may be female love, which may be, and then I’m just reading into this, but maybe they’re thinking of you shirtless in the shed, like doing your carpentry. Oh, with my circular saws. Your body glistening as the sawdust flies all over you. Building birdhouses for the whole neighborhood. Wondering if maybe that’s a thing. Starting drum, making drumsticks.

Matt Ochoa: Are you making drumsticks?

Ari Gold: I’ll leave that to the professionals. Yeah, but I do. Speaking of drumsticks, I wanted to show you guys this. This is an amazing Christmas present that I got from my lovely Aunt Kim.

Matt Ochoa: Sick.

Ari Gold: Sick. I think even though as an air drummer I don’t use real sticks, I might make an exception.

Carlos Verdugo: No, for those I could make an exception.

Ari Gold: These are against the rules in air drumming, aren’t they?

Carlos Verdugo: Vader baby.

Ari Gold: I don’t know what brand these are. There’s a thing in Adventures of Power. that um even having a stool is cheating um and or it’s not cheating but you know you separate the the men from the mice when you air drum with no stool because being in that squat position for a long period and i did i did a hop for teacher in finland in front of 7 000 people and Doing that opening with the double bass drum and the tom.

Matt Ochoa: While you’re standing in a squat position?

Ari Gold: While in squat position. And I had made an edit of the song at 60 seconds. Literally just 60 seconds. And I did those 60 seconds. Rocked it, I will say. There you go. Air drummer.com if you want. And then I was hyperventilating for like four hours afterwards. Level of exhaustion from 60 seconds.

Matt Ochoa: That’s got to be a workout.

Carlos Verdugo: That’s an intense workout.

Ari Gold: Like I’m telling you guys, like if you want to get in shape, forget the drums. We’re doing it wrong, Carlos.

Carlos Verdugo: Yes.

Ari Gold: Yes. Yes.

Carlos Verdugo: Get in a squat position.

Ari Gold: My bad.

Carlos Verdugo: Do a hopper teacher.

Ari Gold: I applaud you, sir. yeah yeah it’s um earned me well some free free plane tickets around the world that’s great i will say about that i don’t want to spoil it for anybody i mean i don’t think it’s spoiling it for anybody in the movie but i am very impressed with how accurate the air drumming is to all the songs that i heard in that movie when you do an air drum movie You got to be on it. Okay. So like there’s an air tablet player in the movie. And so for that, I was like, I tried to cast a bunch of Indian actors who were not drummers and they’d come in and they’d have a, you know, a good look and a good accent. And then they would, do this in your hand and it was terrible and so i was like okay so for this this part i need you know i need someone who actually each finger looks like in the correct place for playing tablas yeah so i ended up casting a dental student who played tablas and by putting up signs around la i found a guy who was a real tablet player also dentists and uh he ended up doing the part of the indian guy who he did great he’s the king of the of yeah until um until he gets well for those who see the movie he gets disqualified he gets disqualified for playing hand drums because there’s a kind of like a air drum racism theme in the in the movie

Matt Ochoa: Was there a lot of editing that had to go down to actually match those parts?

Ari Gold: Well, I mean, me and everyone else who was in the movie learned the songs really accurately so that we could have the shots go as long as possible with accuracy. I’m just trying to get... are you a one take kind of guy or like, is it like, are you punching in on the air drumming?

Matt Ochoa: Good question.

Ari Gold: As a musician, I know you, you understand this. No, but yeah, I mean, some of my life, like I did YYZ when I, when I’ve done it live, it’s a one take thing on screen. You know, we would cut for the best take, but like, yeah, I did. I mean, I, I’ve done rush. I’ve air drummed rush in front of rush.

Matt Ochoa: Yeah.

Ari Gold: um and you’re probably nervous about that you can mess around no i mean i air drummed tom sawyer while neil peart was playing tom sawyer on drums in the same room uh yeah i i i’m a one one take wonder okay here’s the question matt how are the corona concerts with fans in the car

Matt Ochoa: They were awesome because it let us actually have concerts. They were, you know, not like a normal concert, to say the least. So we did some on the West Coast and we did some on the East Coast. The thing about the East Coast is that I feel like there’s a lot more... room and less restrictions as far as uh noise and and sound ordinances or whatever so um i definitely enjoyed the east coast ones because it uh i i just felt like people were closer like it was it was closer to a normal show than it was here uh on the west coast but they were all they were awesome you know i was like With what’s going on, I didn’t, you know, who knows when shows are coming back and to be able to do a drive-in or, like, you know, come up with something like that, you know, like a drive-in concert. It was pretty awesome. So I enjoyed it. Carlos, you did some too. Yeah, what did you do?

Carlos Verdugo: We did some drive-in shows. We actually played this really crazy, like, biker rally in the Ozarks. And that was not like a social distance show.

Ari Gold: I really want to see this. Paint some images. I’m already imagining what’s happening.

Carlos Verdugo: I heard it was bigger than Sturgis.

Ari Gold: It was bigger than Sturgis. The biker rally was. Am I a stupid person?

Carlos Verdugo: Surges.

Ari Gold: Just Google it.

Carlos Verdugo: Okay.

Ari Gold: Okay. Google it one day.

Carlos Verdugo: Yeah.

Ari Gold: But I don’t have multiple hands on.

Carlos Verdugo: Yeah, of course.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Right now. it’s a huge biker rally okay okay so it’s bigger than storage how did you so is this with the blind with rome

Carlos Verdugo: yeah yeah oh my god what what was it like we played out there it was just chaos man it was it was that was the last actual show we played that i was i was blown away that it number one happened and number two it was just like we didn’t we didn’t know going into it that it was going to be like that you know we just thought it was going to be a social kind of distant show and got there it’s just madness like mud was it i’m picturing mud and like guys like doing burnouts donuts

Ari Gold: yeah yeah and um maybe a little bit of um fist fighting in the front row like what And maybe bro hugs afterwards from the uncomfortably close bro hugs with the audience afterwards.

Carlos Verdugo: Yeah. I, I got a really cool shirt. This, this one biker was walking around the whole day and I saw him in his, um, his shirt said, uh, F COVID let’s ride. And so at the end of the night, I was like, Oh, that’s a, that’s a cool shirt, you know? And he’s like, Oh, Here. He took it off his back and he’s like, here, get out. And I’m like, oh, it should be. So I took it and I put it in a trash bag and I tied it up and I got home and put a bunch of bleach on it and stuff. And so it’s my dogs now. But cool story.

Ari Gold: Wait, why? It’s your dog now?

Carlos Verdugo: It’s my dogs. Yeah.

Ari Gold: Is that a compliment to the shirt? I hope.

Carlos Verdugo: Oh, yeah.

Ari Gold: Because your dog has a good style.

Carlos Verdugo: Oh, he’s got great style.

Ari Gold: I hear he has more Instagram followers than you do.

Carlos Verdugo: I think he does.

Ari Gold: I just love bikers at a reggae concert. That’s amazing. Sublime show?

Carlos Verdugo: Yeah.

Ari Gold: By the way, were they singing along?

Carlos Verdugo: Oh, I’m sure they were.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is something that was always amazing about Sublime and Sublime with Rome is the way that it kind of The music for me gives license to macho-ness to be emotional. Does that make sense? There’s something touching about the way the songs are really hard and really emotionally open and vulnerable at the same time. It’s like, it’s a really rare thing.

Matt Ochoa: Yeah.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Pull that off.

Matt Ochoa: No, I hear you on that too.

Ari Gold: I picture someone crying in the back of the biker, biker. Just breaking down.

Matt Ochoa: Yeah.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Question. It’s okay to cry. It’s all, it is all right to cry. Crying gets to start. Yeah. Is reggae rise up still happening in March is a question.

Matt Ochoa: The latest I heard. Yes.

Carlos Verdugo: We hope so.

Matt Ochoa: We were really hoping so.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Carlos Verdugo: i think i mean it’s on the schedule yeah or actually i mean i don’t know if we’re doing are we doing that one florida isn’t that april i thought well there’s there’s one in april in vegas and then there’s one in florida in march okay and i guess i i’ve been on quarantine for too long i gotta check my schedule again just to make sure

Ari Gold: I just, I just, you know, it’s there and I don’t get my hopes up too much, but, uh, you know, cause late, I mean, lately everything’s just being pushed back another year and, you know, they’re going to do it when it’s safe and, and, you know, they’re going to wait until you can play guitar like Yngwie Malmsteen and then you’ll get back in the gallop fretboard and everything. Um, Our next tour, sorry to cut you off, our next tour is actually with the Dirty Heads. I think our next big tour once everything gets back together. Do you guys both skate? I know Matt skates. Carlos, are you a skater?

Carlos Verdugo: I skate to get down the road. I’m afraid to hurt myself, like break my arm or something. I’ve transitioned my skating kind of more into that now to where it’s just kind of like, all right, take it easy. Don’t want to

Ari Gold: So, Matt, were you, like, actually doing intense skating before?

Matt Ochoa: I’d say early on in the Dirty Heads career, I was doing more skating. Growing up, I had, like, a half pipe in my backyard, and I had all the neighborhood kids over, and we would skate, like, every day. That’s what I wanted to do. And then I broke my arm, and then I was like, okay, let me put that on the back burner for a while, and then when this heals up, let’s do drums. Yeah. but I still jump on the skateboard.

Ari Gold: I broke my arm shooting Adventures of Power.

Matt Ochoa: You did?

Ari Gold: Yeah, which was... I mean, when you’re making an air drumming movie and you have a broken arm, it was heartbreaking. I had been working on one section of booking this factory, or actually this... a shipping area in new jersey and been working for weeks because we shot it in parts because we raised the money in parts and very unconventionally filmed movie and i had it finally booked and i had a crew ready to shoot this set of scenes and i was so happy that we went for the location scout the night before and i’m like maybe i’ll add a scene where like i’m running up and i just and then i ran across the towards the where the ship was and there was like a post where they put the ropes and to tie the ship down and i ran into it deliberately to make the crew laugh. Yeah. And broke my arm.

Matt Ochoa: Oh, shit.

Ari Gold: And, you know, and I’m in the hospital and they’re like, yeah, you’re going to have to, you’re not going to be able to move your arm for six weeks. And I’m like, no. You’re like screaming in the room. Like, no, you don’t understand. You’re like, I’m an eardrummer. Like, I have to see we’re supposed to start shooting in the morning. And they’re like, you can’t. And so... we disbanded and we had to postpone like a bunch of the scenes for another two months. But some of the crew was like, look, I got another job. Like, but is there anything you can do so we can get some of the stuff shot? So I picked out a few scenes that I could still do with a broken arm. And so if you look in the movie, there are some scenes where if you look carefully, I’ve got a big cast on. Oh, really? I’m like faking it. And, um, you know like trying to not move my I wasn’t tons of painkillers and just like trying to get through the scenes but that’s a bummer yeah broken arms a big deal I can imagine

Matt Ochoa: so you break your arm skating

Ari Gold: yeah yeah yeah it was you weren’t even a drummer at all at that point or you had played jazz in high school

Matt Ochoa: no yeah so it was in high school and I was part of the drum corps and and and the marching band and all that so I had to Pretty much, I had to just sit it out the entire season and had the cast on and it was no fun.

Ari Gold: Did you get sympathy from the girls?

Matt Ochoa: What’s that?

Ari Gold: Did you get sympathy from the girls?

Matt Ochoa: Oh, a little bit. I mean, I was in a band. There were no girls.

Ari Gold: Okay. So I had this cast from here and the way that they had to set my arm was like this. So I had a cast like this and I would, I would take the drumstick, not the glow in the dark drumstick. It was a different drumstick, but I would stick it in the cast like this. And so I would go home and I’d practice just, and I did that almost like traditional.

Matt Ochoa: Yeah.

Ari Gold: Yeah. I did that for three months.

Matt Ochoa: Yeah.

Ari Gold: Yeah. So you became, you became buddy rich when you did that.

Matt Ochoa: Pretty much. If Buddy Rich had a cast on, yeah.

Ari Gold: By the way, Carlos, do you prefer to be called Seagulls?

Carlos Verdugo: Sure, whatever. Carlos or Seagulls, whatever.

Ari Gold: What do people call you in general? I see that

Carlos Verdugo: I mean, if you don’t know me, probably Carlos, but if you’re my friend, then Silos.

Ari Gold: So we’re friends. So I’ll call you Silos. So you have an interesting thing with your drums, your tuning. You want to talk a little bit about, you know, actually Hoffer teacher would be an interesting example that were toms and toms and bass are tuned so that they start becoming indistinguishable. Do you want to talk about how you got into that?

Carlos Verdugo: Yeah, I’ve always enjoyed the sound of real low drums because it just, I don’t know, the frequency hits good for me. And I feel like you can do a lot of fills since I’m not a double bass drum player. I like to incorporate the toms with the kick drum to kind of make your mind wonder if it’s double bass or not.

Ari Gold: Right. Low Tom is the lowest position in Adventures of Power. The movie, like my character is demoted. He’s demoted. There’s a scene where he’s demoted to Low Tom. But it’s nice that you’re, I’m not sure if it’s a compliment to Low Tom that you’re making it sound like a bass drum or if it’s like basically a closeted Low Tom.

Carlos Verdugo: It still has tonality to it. It still has a tone.

Ari Gold: It’s not just a completely dead kick drum with a pillow in it.

Carlos Verdugo: It’s definitely got tone. It fits for what I do.

Ari Gold: Have you ever tried two bass drums?

Carlos Verdugo: Early in my drumming, I played double kick a little bit. And it was when I was playing in like more punk and stuff or what?

Ari Gold: Yeah, it was in punk rock stuff. And we were playing really fast stuff. And it was really early in my in my drumming career. And I remember playing with a bunch of older bands and and I was playing a punk rock beat, but cheating playing playing with the double kick. And one of the older drummers came and hit me up and he’s like, he’s like, it’s cool to play double kick, but he’s like, if you’re going to cheat and do that kind of thing, it’s like, makes you look like a bad drummer. And so after that, I, I got rid of my double bass and concentrated really on getting my, uh, single pedal to sound like double pedal, you know, 30, 32, 30 second notes.

Ari Gold: Yeah. So some lamb of God kind of stuff, you know?

Carlos Verdugo: Yeah.

Ari Gold: Um, did you have one of those freaking Frankenstein drum kits when you were younger like

Carlos Verdugo: when I was younger I had like my drum kit and then like somehow I came up on like this other like floor tom from some other drum kit but then I had two floor toms because I had those and then you know exactly i you know like 10 different cymbals and you just kind of like piece it together and get the biggest drum kit that you can find i mean i had a really crappy um i had a olympic premiere drum set that was my very first kit it was like a off brand of a premiere you know

Ari Gold: yeah yeah or it was like the their lowest model you know it’s like the export series or whatever but i i had that and uh I ended up getting a DW Tom and I put it as my, my rack Tom. So, so it kind of looked like I had a DW kit going on there for sure. And then, and then, and then, and then I eventually got a different kit and it had lugs on it that I didn’t really like. And I was a big fan of orange County drums when I was growing up. And yeah. And so I got all orange County drum lugs and put them on my drums to make it look like a, different kit but eventually along along the road i ran into these guys and now i can actually have a custom kit without pretending it’s a frankenstein custom kit um my eardrum kit is dw in in adventures of power you actually see there’s you there’s a shot where you see the stool and it’s got the the dw is on it

Matt Ochoa: yeah nice yeah that’s maddie maddie’s dw play dws

Ari Gold: yeah yeah you deal with vessel drum co nice no it’s it’s nice to the smaller shops are are still rocking yeah yeah tough with these to keep a small business going so um and don don has become like the the biggest fish around in drum history um i mean lombardi i mean um so uh question for

Ari Gold: well actually one thing i just want to plug um we do that everyone who watches adventures of power on amazon even if you’re streaming for free the money goes to support music cares music cares is a organization that run by the grammy association that supports musicians in need and in this very very difficult time for for everyone but particularly for musicians it’s so helpful and um there are some musicians who are not able to tour and unable to do anything and don’t have the the prospects in front of them and so anyone who wants to contribute directly to music cares uh they can go to adventures of power.com we have a link to donate for us or whenever you watch the movie or if you buy it on vimeo um you’re supporting music hairs so please please uh please support

Matt Ochoa: yes please do that that’s so awesome of you too

Ari Gold: i also want to give a shout out to modern drummer that has been so helpful with uh this whole process and is a really fun partner on this and uh For anyone who is interested in drumming, the Neil Peart Festival Special, which is still is available at the shop at air drummer. I mean, at modern drummer.com. It’s four hours of interviews and music and people talking about Neil Peart and I, It’s a beautiful thing. I’m in it. I’m in it for five minutes talking about air drumming, but more important, actual drummers rocking and talking about what an influence Neil Peart was. So please check that out and eat your Archies while you’re doing it. Those are the important things I have to share because they’re our partners and wonderful, wonderful people all around.

Matt Ochoa: Yeah, modern drummer, man. I grew up reading modern drummer, for sure.

Carlos Verdugo: Me too.

Ari Gold: It’s the one you wanted to be on the cover of.

Matt Ochoa: Yes, of course.

Ari Gold: Have you made it to the cover yet?

Matt Ochoa: No.

Ari Gold: All right, well.

Matt Ochoa: I’ve been in it. I’ve done it. I’ve been in it with an article.

Ari Gold: Okay.

Matt Ochoa: I was actually trying to look for it the other day, and I had a box of Dirty Head stuff I was just going through, you know, and I was looking for it. I found a couple other things that we did that I definitely kept and I wanted to keep, but the Modern Drummer magazine was one, too. And I was looking through it and I found a modern drummer magazine. I was like, this must be it. And I went through every single page like four times. I went through the whole thing. And all I could find was a long article about Josh Freese. So why did I keep this magazine? It must have been because of Josh. I don’t know why I did that.

Ari Gold: You guys both are in the Josh Freese lineage. So it kind of makes sense, right?

Matt Ochoa: Yeah.

Ari Gold: I guess like maybe at the time I held on to it because I wanted to show him. I don’t know why I had it or I don’t know.

Matt Ochoa: Oh, so you were already friends with him?

Ari Gold: I, I must’ve, I think so. I mean, I’m friends with him now. So I don’t know if I was when I saved that. If I wasn’t, maybe I was trying to have something come into fruition or something. I was like, if I hold onto this, we’ll be friends one day.

Matt Ochoa: Yeah.

Carlos Verdugo: So, but yeah, I can’t find the article that I was on. So.

Ari Gold: can just keep on looking because i i had one of those two and and i looked through it i think once and i didn’t find it but i kept the magazine and then i looked through it again and then it was there it was my first one and it was like it was (00:37:59): an article about it was real small yeah that’s what it is but i kept it you know yeah i’ll have to look again i’ll check out yeah just look at the small small magazine a paper magazine on print there’s something oh yeah exciting about that i remember the first time i was in a magazine i just couldn’t believe it yeah that glossy paper and you’re like that’s me i’m gonna hold on to this forever part of history yeah it’s never changing

Ari Gold: So what’s next for each of you? What do you want to plug here? I need to have a captive audience. What do you have coming that you can surprise people with that they don’t know about?

Matt Ochoa: Dirty Heads. We’ve released a couple singles during quarantine, trying to put out new music. We’ve recorded some stuff. We’re basically just waiting to see what happens and waiting till we can come play music again for everyone. So... I think Carlos will be joining us in the summertime, hopefully. Things go right.

Ari Gold: In what form, in terms of both of your bands touring together?

Matt Ochoa: Yeah, I mean, we’ve toured together in the past, and I think the plan is to do it this summer.

Ari Gold: Why don’t you guys drag both of your kits on stage at some point and show us where it’s at and do a duo?

Matt Ochoa: Yeah.

Carlos Verdugo: Yeah.

Ari Gold: Yeah. like you should like drum duos there’s a really weird magic that can happen i’ll bet if you like arrange that i’m sure it’d be pain to do it but like do it at some rehearsal if you’re touring together where you actually just create something and the energy of two drummers playing at the same time it’s it’s really crazy or maybe we could have one air drummer like

Matt Ochoa: yes yes i like one of us like maybe maddie can come air drum a song for me or i can come we know we can find an air drummer right we know someone

Ari Gold: i think professional air drummer oh saying that there’s only one you know within the guinness book it’s this guy All right, all right. You got the job. So I forgot I have to keep both of my computers open for this technical. So confusing.

Matt Ochoa: You’re doing a lot over there.

Ari Gold: Huh?

Matt Ochoa: You’re doing a lot over there. I’m impressed.

Ari Gold: It’s all right. I think that I just messed it up. I think we’re good. No, it’s still live. Okay. So we are going to... move to the watch party, which is, um, at adventures of power.com slash Twitch, which will take you to the Twitch channel. Um, those of you who don’t have a Twitch account, you’ll have to make one, which is sorry. And you also need to have an Amazon account because Amazon owns Twitch and the movie streams through Amazon. If you can’t watch the movie with us now, uh, please watch it anytime on Amazon. It’s called adventures of power, or you can go to air drummer.com. If you forget that, um, And, uh, you know, during the, during the watch now you can comment, you can cook your food and you can make jokes at me and I will respond on Twitch. Um, so we will move over there in a second. Um, anything else you guys want to say to your lovely fans?

Matt Ochoa: Yeah, I just want to thank you for having us. This is awesome. Uh, the movie is hilarious. You guys are going to love it. Um, Thank you for partnering up with Music Cares. That means a lot. I know a lot of people are struggling during this time. It’s really rad that you’re doing it. The movie is hilarious. I think it’s pretty awesome.

Ari Gold: Thank you. I’ll see you guys over at Twitch. Let’s do it. Please, guys, stick around for this movie, please. If you guys are you know, not busy doing anything. If not, then make sure you check it out on the next one. If it’s all right, I’d like to give a, just a second, just to, for all the drummers who are out there, just to give a shout out to Aquarian, Vessel Drum Co., Peisty Cymbals, and Vader Drumsticks, and also Traeger Grills. They’ve been hooking Dirty Heads and I up, so much love to you guys, and thank you very much for letting us do this. Thank you so much for listening to Hot Sticks Drum Show. Please stream the movie Adventures of Power at airdrummer.com and support the Grammy Music Hairs Foundation. And don’t forget to subscribe at hotsticks.fm. And of course, feel free to ask me any questions or make drummer requests at Ari Gold on social media. And keep marching to the beat of your own drum, even if you don’t have one. We are air drummers! Every one of us! Imagine that.

This interview originally appeared on Hotsticks.fm.

See more about Matt Ochoa & Carlos Verdugo on the official site for Adventures of Power, the world’s greatest (and only) Air Drum Movie!

Enjoyed this session? Explore more from the Interviews Archive.

The Discipline Beneath the Flash

Johnny Rabb traces the evolution of his freehand technique—not as a trick, but as a response to speed, repetition, and the discipline of drum & bass culture. What begins as a technical conversation unfolds into a meditation on frustration, authorship, influence, and the long road of refining an idea until it becomes language.

Life Inside the Groove

Scott Hessel reflects on longevity: learning by listening, serving the song, and navigating the unglamorous realities of touring, injury, and band life. Together, Rabb and Hessel explore the balance between virtuosity and humility, the dangers of performance without connection, and the quiet craft of being a drummer people want to play with.

Watch video version here:

RAW TRANSCRIPT (Pardon the old-school glitches):

Johnny Rabb: All right.

Scott Hessel: Well, the whole gang is here. Look at us. We look like a rock band.

Johnny Rabb: Wait a sec. Yeah. Scott, you know,

Ari Gold: Look at this. eight in the morning, right?

Ari Gold: I’ve never done an eight in the morning live

Scott Hessel: The party of blind? Yeah. Hey, can we, can we have that? Can we have that affect you have going on there

Ari Gold: Um, you have to turn it on when you turn on and so you would have to leave and come back. I figured since we’re doing an eight in the morning talk or eight for me, I guess it’s 11 for you. I wanted to have a little bit of like a, you know, show guide to make me remember rock music when I haven’t had my coffee. So, very nice to meet you guys. Have you toured together before?

Scott Hessel: Yes, I used to be Johnny’s drum tech, but 40 years ago. So we met on Tinder. And from there it was it. It was love it.

Ari Gold: From there it was but the other thing but loving. Did you ever but we’re not you weren’t really his drum tech were you know, did you ever study freehand Todd and be honest, you

Scott Hessel: know what? head no. I have what do you know? I know. I just know that. Okay, go ahead. No, no, I have I have since studied. Gianni. Both, you know in person. And on on the YouTube machine quite. And, you know, on all those private Tinder videos we’re talking about, but no use it’s it’s fantastic as well. There. Got to see I knew that was gonna happen. I started getting blind. So uh, but yeah, it’s it’s, it’s fantastic. Johnny’s fantastic. Come on. This wait.

Ari Gold: Yeah. You know, were you? I have a question, Johnny, were you kind of one of the first people to do that level of like Drum and Bass style insanity with your hands. Like, who invented by new invented the freehand.

Johnny Rabb: So, yeah, I appreciate

Ari Gold: what I’m talking about.

Johnny Rabb: In a nutshell, first of all, I’m Scott. Thanks for getting on here. Are you in Nashville? Scott.

Johnny Rabb: I’m in Phoenix. You are in Phoenix. I

Johnny Rabb: thought you were Nashville today. Okay, cool.

Scott Hessel: Oh, no, Phoenix, but later later now, early for you. Okay, okay. I think I’m really up on this.

Johnny Rabb: No, you’re early riser award. And then Hey, John, McTigue is on here. John, great drummer. Anyway, the freehand technique thing came about from my love of drum and bass music, you know, produced music and the speed of it was you know, 160 280 BPM at that point and yours you’re gonna like sticky to get to get to get up to date to get the Hi Hat kept going. So in a nutshell, he’s on here in a nutshell. When I was at school, I started messing with it. I was like, man, what if you could do use your one hand for absolutely controlling 30 seconds and 16th notes like legitimately not just as like a spaz out roll and mess with it very get very frustrated with it. I will say yeah, like from what Ken would inspired me to do. I didn’t know him personally. But Kenwood Dennard, but he was he had a video on called just advance, and I was absorbing everything he was doing in that thing he was he was amazing. One handed roll. So I’ve always said the inspiration of using the rim of the drum was from him. And the idea of the stick, quote, unquote, teetering was from him. But then the controversy has kind of been what happened from there. And from there, I just took it over the years, like maybe four years 94 I guess four through 2000 and really tried to like make a book of it of like, here’s how you can troll here’s the rules. Pretty nerd nerd like stuff, but back then you were asked by the drum and bass, Zack Danziger, Tony Berta Rossa Jojo Mayer, and me were heavily into it. And also dirt brand we didn’t know. But all coming from different places in the world, New York, California, Switzerland, Germany, and met at the NAM show, we’re all bringing out these like symbols with different companies. We’re like, Oh, you did this again. Here’s my book in a German action, dirt brand and then like, Joe Joe’s ridiculous. That’s it. So it’s been frustrating but fun. The freehand things been super frustrating because there’s a lot of I want to be a jerk people to coach me not to be a kind of a jerk I guess about the topic anymore, but it’s irritating a little bit. There’s not much everyone’s like, Oh, even on my page, it’s like, a Gravity Blast. And I’m like, Okay, guys. All right. So

Johnny Rabb: whatever. God bless.

Johnny Rabb: Gravity Blast on the moon, Scott.

Ari Gold: Gravity bust. Scott, do you have your own technique that you’re going to market and then get get frustrated that people don’t know?

Scott Hessel: For me, something called the two and four. It’s, it’s evolution.

Ari Gold: But it’s in fact, good back. Oh, yes. It’s

Scott Hessel: a little something called ghost notes. No, but, you know, we’re in my neck of the woods, for the drumming. I think if I was to try to play a blast of beat in a gym blossom song, I’d find my way with a quick plane ticket back to Phoenix. So I don’t I love just, I’ve talked about this a lot on other podcast shows, but just how much drumming has evolved over the last 10 years with you know, with the, with Instagram videos, and just how the kids out there, and I’m calling you a kid Johnny, the kids out there are just just doing these mind boggling things which, you know, only maybe a handful of drummers that you would see in years past were able to do and now it’s like nothing. It’s like, that’s like, just this whole time shift in in ability and just just making it look so clean and easy. And and so I I decided a while back that. Yeah, I could I could try to get into that, that that thing. Or I could just let them do what they do. And I’ll stick to what I can do, which is, you know, meat potatoes and like, you know, playing to a clip that that sort of stuff that ultimately doesn’t get you set home fired. Does that make sense?

Ari Gold: Yeah, well, you’ve been you’ve been playing for the longest, I think the longest drummer in Gin Blossoms. Right? Along. You’ve been with them? Let’s see,

Scott Hessel: you know, I keep saying it was 12 years, but now it’s actually been 10 years. But all amo feels like 12 years. And your test is 20.

Ari Gold: Usually next year, nine years. So yeah. And you you thought because of a Stewart Copeland I hear. Yes, that’s correct. Yes. Nothing inspiration.

Scott Hessel: I’m going out tonight flying out to Nashville to see him perform with his orchestra.

Johnny Rabb: I’m excited I would have I would have double dated.

Scott Hessel: Well, there’s you know, always room. There’s always room at the red roof

Ari Gold: so you’re going to Nashville, that and are you gonna stay there for a while you just like flying into see Stewart?

Scott Hessel: Yeah, no, I’m gonna be there for three performances and hopefully get to get some hang time or whatever, whatever, FaceTime you know, maybe we can discuss, you know, dotted half notes and all that kind of fun stuff. But no, you know, it’s fantastic. I you know, without without going out, Stuart, I am nothing. I have many drummers first. And so, you know, at this point, I feel very lucky to be able to even see the man perform live much less be able to, you know, actually get to maybe the Hangout or whatever.

Johnny Rabb: That’s rad Scott.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Hang out inside of

Scott Hessel: Yeah, it’s cool. And they’re in there. They’re fantastic people Jeff sites and Judith his wife is manages their his tour and they’ve basically helped facilitate you know, my my way and to the world steward a little bit so it’s it’s fun

Ari Gold: Can you can you give us any insider tips about his snare and why his snare inspire you as a kitten? What’s What

Scott Hessel: I can tell you like, the first time I heard probably it was one world one world not three, the name of the song off of the machine. The first time I heard that snare the crack of the snare was yeah, it was that that did it for me. Like that’s all I needed to hear. I didn’t even need to hear is this guy any good? I just the snare alone the sound drew me in and I said okay, this is something that is so just and so just I want to do whatever that is whatever I’m hearing whatever my brain is. And that’s what I heard. And what I realized first was I want to be a part of that kind of thing. And then I realized oh my god, this guy can also actually play this instrument quite well. And so I just started studying what those you know records very intently play along with them and and by the way I’m trying is the key word there you know

Ari Gold: what do you go I mean his sources are you know, cuz he grew up in a kind of world of different music, non American music. And I find it interesting to kind of figure out going back to like, what influenced him growing up in Lebanon, right and Egypt and so, is that something can you bring any of those you were sort of joking about you know, two and four. But can you bring any that kind of you know, playfulness that attracted you into gin bottle? Or is that something you thought was

Scott Hessel: funny? So Phil Rhodes was is this guy that was Jim Lawson first drummer he played on the first record the second record I’m not sure about the rest of them but anyway, that when you hear a Jim blossom song on the radio, that’s Phil Rhodes playing and I knew early on that Phil was a Stewart fan and so my secret to being able to sort of bring the Stuart influence sort of slight it may be even into the more more of a forefront in what I’m doing with the Jim blossoms recreating Phil stuff is that I know what Phil was trying to do in the first place, which was pull the the Stewart stuff in so for me it’s it’s it’s great fun because I can sort of take it and make it my own but I can also really have myself a lot of fun with the Hi Hat stuff the you know the the little you know, hi hat fills and flourishes and you know off time you know, just throwing the little Tom Phil in as a little punctuate here and there that’s the kind of stuff that that is there on those blossoms records if you listen to him you know

Ari Gold: to have you ever used yes right

Johnny Rabb: hang on I’ll be right beat us keep chatting

Ari Gold: well just you know since you your friends you know and and just left where we’re joining where’d you go going on but scared I mentioned some saw he has a a drumstick with ridges or

Johnny Rabb: you have those

Ari Gold: um, are you just because it seems like for plant steward like stuff and plant in doing strange runs you you know having a bunch of bridges on the side but I don’t seem to have one there I thought

Scott Hessel: this look look this

Johnny Rabb: is backwards but this is mixed reality. This is a vinyl that I bought directly from the guys when returning with them. Scott’s on there. And I love this record Scott. Just want to let you know that’s where I went over my turntable system. My Hi Fi unit. And I got I got this is such a great album. And I remember one of my fondest memories guys this reel is I was in a hotel that had a record player. And I was really tired. Scott and I had been playing basically on the moon one of the nights I know that certain side jokes God we can explain that story. But there’s so many great songs on this and it was. I don’t how to say it. It’s a great feeling. It’s like I love taking naps Scott I don’t feel like taking naps like when you’re off on the road some but I do. Oh, he already naps.

Scott Hessel: Oh yeah very much. Yeah, any

Johnny Rabb: I’ve taken taking a nap and this is on the record player right now hotel and I don’t know there’s that ballad Scott, can you help me on the name? Uh, you guys played it live?

Scott Hessel: Right? We do play it live.

Ari Gold: Yeah. Ah.

Scott Hessel: Oh, break break

Johnny Rabb: that one to me dude. Who? Woof woof okay. I just like what’s going on and I want to say give props there to Scott too because first time I met him I think was Council Bluffs, Iowa. The outdoor wear no. Casino I should have said weird but I’d say that only because we get some weird venues It was very nice venue. And I was like oh there he said you know we’re setting up together and you never know what people are gonna you just don’t know like what the industry brings with Hey, man how you doing dude out here are you know I don’t know what how people get for free. Yeah. Scott actually did that. He’s like get lost. No, I’m kidding. He was quite the opposite. It was buddies and like just talking and like Man Yeah, we’re playing tonight this thing and then we didn’t really get to play together that much after right Scott until the tour

Scott Hessel: was a wild like maybe a year actually. Yeah, we booked them in it’s been a year and we looked at like boy that didn’t look but pretty fast.

Johnny Rabb: So I know I just did an interruption with the record but just exciting. I don’t know some exciting about watching Scott work and then the whole summer of jokes and kind of literally camaraderie like I you know, we we always try to be careful each other space because of bands and you don’t want to like interrupt soundcheck but at the same time you kind of do want to interrupt soundtracks a little bit or make Scott laugh or try to or do a little iPhone photo shoot or whatever we’re gonna do. But anyway, Scott, good job, because that tour was amazing. And I told everybody like you guys sound and I mean this in the best way not stale. Like the record, like you bring me bring the live show with energy, but it’s still got that like, holy crap. Listen to Robin listen to the guys was. So is these guys anyway, it’s great. And Scott, you’re so great. Hemin

Scott Hessel: appreciate that. That’s, that’s the idea. Like, that’s the biggest compliment I ever hear is like, boy, you know, you sound just like the record. And I always say Well, that’s what you know, that’s what the pay me for. So, yeah, I sort of if they came if I came away, and they said, Boy, you know, couldn’t quite place that. You know? All of that would be like a failure on my part. So

Johnny Rabb: what was that song? You guys were just doing? Yeah.

Ari Gold: Well, so. You have to you postponed Yeah,

Scott Hessel: where is our our bass player? and I were walking back from the show. And it was so bizarre. We were We were literally having a conversation with each other about the dangers of black ice. No. Um, and about that time I was walking along in front of Bill and I heard what sounded like the you know those those fast cartoon effect footsteps the Winstone Yes. Like I heard what Yes. And then I turned around and I saw Bill falling almost you know, almost directly onto his face and the whole you know, weight of his body fell on his see his his right arm and super lame, but he knew immediately that he had busted his elbow. So he Yeah, that was the we tried to play an acoustic show the next night it was just kind of weird but we decided you know what, let’s just do we write shows left let’s let’s do them in the fall. And they were new miserable experience shows where we play the new miserable experience album from front to back. actually robbing one night was trying to get us to play it from back and and that’s not a joke. And we we almost did it and thought you know what, we got enough. We got enough on our plate here. So yeah, so bill is on the mend and all everything looks like we’re we’ll be revving back up into like about a week I think. So the week yeah. Tulsa, Tulsa, Oklahoma. Okay, good.

Johnny Rabb: Okay, yeah, dude, that makes me excited. Sorry to hear about Bill on that. I didn’t know that happened.

Scott Hessel: I Yeah. You know, it was it was about like, when you when you think of black eyes, you know, you think okay, yeah, you have to be careful on black eyes. No, you really do have to be careful on black guys because it it’s the man went down hard. And I went on his elbow. I just looked at it and thought this again, ever seen it like no, I like I couldn’t see. I don’t want to eat. It was

Ari Gold: it was okay with

Johnny Rabb: that. But sorry to hear it.

Scott Hessel: But they did. They did a surgery. And you know, he’s you know, last time I saw him. He was playing his bass. So as far as you know, he’s back to back to Bill.

Ari Gold: Yeah, I had

Scott Hessel: some meddling of sorts, but I’m not I’m not quite sure. The HIPAA laws might prevent me from discussing this further.

Johnny Rabb: God, you’re killing it right now. With the jokes. I love it.

Ari Gold: When I was adventures to power my air jammer movie, I broke my arm

Johnny Rabb: while air drumming or something else

Ari Gold: no, actually it was. We were about to shoot the scene where my character convinces some communion guys to put him in a boat and take them across from New Jersey to New York. And I had been fighting to get this location for a few days. And it turned out we got the location we and I was celebrating and I was joking with my crew. So I said to the DP, I was like, hey, maybe when I’m running for the harbor, I should run into this pole. And so I ran across the parking lot and ran into the pole to try to take off and I broke my arm.

Johnny Rabb: The price. pay the price you pay for laughter.

Ari Gold: Yep. So then I cancelled you know, I had I had done I lost the location. I had to, you know, get surgery cover for six weeks. And I did end up shooting a couple scenes with a broken arm. So if you watch Adventures of power, you can see I’m wearing a long sleeve shirt and there’s a cast and there’s some scenes where I’m kind of lonely there drumming with my left hand.

Johnny Rabb: It’s funny how you don’t have an injury completely take you out like that. I mean, you got to be careful. It’s weird. Like I love soccer or basketball. But I hear stories of people going yep, I missed an entire two years worth of touring because I got you know, we’ll turn our bass player got his thumb pulled back trying to go for a layup or some sort of thing like that put them out for before I was in the band. For like, a year.

Scott Hessel: I exchanged basketball injury stories. I broke my foot while on tour. I missed posts here with the band. But really, that was playing one on one with the drummer from Everclear Sean tester. And yeah, I was I was on one of those uneven backstage parking lot deals with the hoop in the back and the black widow spider webs all around. And I went in I was I was like, Okay, this is gonna be fantastic. An afternoon of basketball with Sean. And like five minutes into the game. I had my face had hit the the the what do they call it the stanchion the pole and I had totally broken my fifth Mark metatarsal. Whoa. I played the show that night because I didn’t know I had a broken foot the the the EMT just said I hope your hope you’re not playing a show tonight. So matter of fact about that I met him to the stage. He said you better tie your shoe pretty tight. And I woke up the next morning and I had like elephantitis foot and and that was yeah, good times. Never us.

Ari Gold: Oh, you’re playing on?

Scott Hessel: Oh, it was I mean I was on so much fight get in. It just felt like it was it was the best show I’d ever played. Yeah, that’s what that was about. Yeah. But yeah, 20 pose man, I’ll tell you you do you really do appreciate when you go down and you are injured like that, and especially if it happens in such a preventable way. If it’s just out of clear boredom and you’re, you know, playing basketball or you’re out you know, ciao And indicates you trip and you fall and you realize, you know, why didn’t I just stay in my bunk? Rely?

Ari Gold: Yeah, why did Yeah, well just to make one person laugh Yeah. I mean, this is the perils of oh man I don’t with workshop guys this is awkward

Ari Gold: so I want to ask you Johnny about a new ad. You have this, you have this ABS group as and you want to talk about how you channel your weight What is it about the 80s is what bands

Johnny Rabb: are your I was born in 72 So you can imagine the 80s were kind of my like, years of teens and stuff like that. So I grew up in California I always loved everything from Thomas Dolby the cars Devo. I mean anything in excess, late, you know, anything you can imagine 80s That was just like I was living it you know? Of course it’s kind of the reason I started yes and all that the PROG stuff. Of course I got into like fusion and jazz with the 80s pop. I was always interested in like, how are they getting those drum sounds like man these things are so I didn’t know they were catchy songs then they were just the songs to late 70s always love the on the snare. So I would imitate that by taking my literally jacket and tying it around my snare. And my coaches like why is it say Braves and it’s like a perfect circle of white you know like these white dots and I go and so on my snare at home trying to imitate the cars playing along with the cars records or Yeah, and I also I also did like to be honest, same thing happened what Scott’s talking about, like the police synchronicity record with my friend Mike Johns was like I don’t want this now remember skateboarding from the top of the hill home with a record putting it on? And exactly what Scott said I want to do I want to get back to the question. Yes, now Duran Duran as well all those bands folks. I don’t mean to be weird, but like just every name you throw out probably I’m gonna be like Yeah 80s But I heard that record it was like you can drum like that and then I got into Fishbone and I got into some of that stuff. My drum teacher was making the fusion so there’s this big music mixing pot of stuff and but the 80s Like there’s no way that I remember my biggest thing there’s no way they can sound like this live and I was kind of right sort of like the age when you just like this weird drum sound like there’s no way when they’re live it can be this process I didn’t know the word process at age 10 I wasn’t like walking around studio ace or something that’s what got me into it now with with collective soul there’s when there’s some downtime which we’re pretty pretty busy obviously right but I was like man, what do I love doing a course I love all the funk and stuff and whatever but like Scott the song was my main reason for starting and i Everyone asked somebody even said for this Oh man, what a waste of what you do and I’m like, No, it isn’t I love this I’m playing backbeat I’m playing the song and Scott’s right you do the free hand or you do some stupid move it you know see you later you know clear by at home so um, so the ban was created about three years ago and you at we are an original band but yet the cover thing and we’re trying to do this like 80s experience you know video backdrop delights the whole thing for like larger venues so we’re trying to kind of bypass not that we’re above playing them but bypass the clubs we’re trying to get this booked you know at venues that like we’re playing with our bands right now and actually do it as a business but we just released a record and I love the guys it’s great, great project

Ari Gold: so it’s it’s a mix of covers and no it’s actually worth it no

Johnny Rabb: more so the 80s experience review like you know, we everything Flock of Seagulls to Thompson twins to

Ari Gold: Duran Duran songs do you plan what

Johnny Rabb: we are right now? Not in the symphony meaning like not in our set is like Rio that’s you know that the all the favorites? I love to do like the reflex but I mean, I can’t afford that waterfall effect they have in that video, though.

Ari Gold: No, I heard I remember at the time was a kid. And there was a rumor about what that waterfall represented. I can imagine

Johnny Rabb: many rumor that that the song was written after a young person with only be very careful here but special needs are something that said the reflex to them. And then they got the idea about the reflex was like I have no idea if that’s true. The waterfall, no idea but this is back in the day with you No oh my god doesn’t matter that type of I don’t know what was your thought of what that represented

Ari Gold: well it’s not it’s not safe for work thing but you know as a as a you know a little boy this is what we heard we heard all of the the results I’ll just say the results of the lovemaking on my

Johnny Rabb: gosh band they were making a lot of that apparently to create a waterfall

Ari Gold: that is what I heard. You know, I was young enough to think oh, that really is what it is but I

Scott Hessel: you have officially ruined Duran Duran for me.

Johnny Rabb: What’s up Alex? On the ad thing, Scott and are they the one one little thing I wish for you guys is to go check out Wang Chung deeply and and the outfield deeply. Unfortunately, unfortunately, outfield lead singer like I was seriously like, hurt by this he passed away two and a half years ago or so. And my friend Rizzy was drumming for them and I was living vicariously through them because as a kid I wrote letters to Wang Chung and outfield fan club in the UK. And they got returned. Either drummer age 12 I was like if you guys ever drummer it was all hand written. If you guys know you have drummers but if you ever need a drummer, I’m 12 and I know your stuff. But a lot of people think that you know everybody have fun tonight is like the thing. You got Vinnie Colaiuta you got so many amazing players playing on Wang Chung waterside, cool record. Just go check out because it’s all free or rentable now. Go check out like diamond days outfield, go check out voices of Babylon, outfield, go check out his solo record he did before he passed away. The singer of the outfield and

Scott Hessel: but he had that he those high notes. The first ever heard the outfield? I actually thought it was a new police record because Yeah, wow, stunt man. stings, really, you know, working those high notes these days. And then I discovered it was the outfield. And I was like, Boy, these kids, these kids are fantastic.

Johnny Rabb: That thing you just said Scott, the radio station played him and somebody said the exact same thing you did when I called in. I’m like, What is this? This is my paradise song. Is that new Stinger police Renault’s outfield. Same thing happened. I will tell you I’ve not met Tony Lewis in person I was hoping to I was hoping to some for Mike never happened but I did get word back to Tony that how much I loved because the management team was the same place we rehearsed. Right? And, and I got I’m like, guys, I don’t mean to be lame. I’m getting older. When you guys do the new record standard play drums on it. Can I do like one track? I literally tried to sell myself as a gift. Maybe maybe that No, he’s aware that you’re interested in all that stuff. Right? His actual voice like even when he was on his Instagram because he got into it. He was doing like the Josee vacation far away right? He would just go into that voice or like that’s you like lose a natural spot whereas if I tried that it’d be falsetto and lame. Yeah, he’s pretty bad at a sad loss because that guy crafted what a word crafted my teens. Yeah, it was just space and time moment Wang Chung in them killed me. You know what I mean? Like just just killed me on? I don’t know, like young, where you’re like, What’s life gonna be like, and like, just like the whole like, oh, tonight was sad for me. I’m gonna get sad with the outfield. Oh, tonight was great. I want to be psyched with the outfield Wang Chung. So I just those are like sleeper bands kind of. And I

Ari Gold: Oh, yeah. About Wang Chung. I never did the deep dive but I had someone say to me what you know, I see someone in the comments was, you know that it’s that you underneath the hits? There’s incredible stuff because it somehow hits sort of came out after they’d already done like, really interesting stuff. And they’re like, alright, let’s let’s actually get on the radio. But, but yeah, I gotta I gotta do that dive. I mean, I I somehow always, for me, like the thing that I come back to. That is always fresh from the 80s. We talked on other

Johnny Rabb: tunes. Yeah. Yeah. So I can’t read on that. Yep.

Ari Gold: Yeah, I mean, and it’s interesting. It’s imagine being the drummer of talk talk as the band got more and more esoteric and quiet. Might have been different frustrating experience but that drummer is amazing. I don’t know if you’ve seen their live show from Montclair, I guess to pronounce it multiple, they have a incredible live performance where they’ve got a band of people watching, watch it a couple weeks ago, and I realized that they probably are, you know, in the top three bands of the 80s Just in terms of their skill, their, their song, craft, their energy. And then right after that tour, they basically shut down, they didn’t tour anymore, and then they created these incredible rock, you know, post rock records before that term existed kind of invented post rock. But it was it’s kind of, you know, I don’t know, it’s not sad, but I think about that drummer because he’s so good on that live tour. And then you hear these last records where it’s like, you know, yeah, just tapping the tapping the crowd the symbol and that’s those

Scott Hessel: appear to be I we could have like a talk talk podcast. Yeah. Talk to that record. And the the follow up to that the the the band became arguably I mean, I those records to me are still so influential. And

Ari Gold: I listened to them all the time as the spirit of Eden is very much my top 10 records. Just not necessarily

Scott Hessel: a go one record, but it’s where the drums are. Are they’re you know, they’re there. I mean, it’s it’s just insane.

Johnny Rabb: When you when you guys agree, though, sometimes like, like, I’m getting excited about how your people are like totally 100% Don’t you almost feel like you have so much to say what I’m saying what I mean by that is I want to like now share like every single thing I’ve ever listened to like guys don’t do green like I mean Mister Mister live at the Roxy Padma Salado at like trade shows and he’s like goofing off with me. And I’m like, you’re goofing off with me dude. You’re like, influence me like insane with like, broken wings. And then like later with go on, and like all his electronic triggering is gone. I’m like, I’ll never forget what Hey, Pat, when you’re playing on the go on this one, too. And he’s like, he goes, Man, I don’t totally remember. It was a lot of that I programmed. And, and I’m telling you, it was so inspiring. Just to look on the inside of the record at his Yamaha kid has triggers. Um, but I’m telling you if you get a chance, are you guys we’re diving into YouTube on these concerts. Mr. Mr. Live from the Roxy. It’s like New York. It’s based in the Ritz Ritz in New York. Check out the entire band and Pat. And that’s what I mean. We could go on and on about and that was a whole entire record collection. And of course, there’s somebody St. John.

Ari Gold: Mr. The very opening of my movie, power is Mr. Mr. Which people always make like you’re doing a drum, a drum thing and some edits, Curie, a liaison, and he’s he’s dancing on the on the smokestacks. Or I’m dancing on this hour. But uh, but yeah, if you if you see him again, I don’t know if he ever saw the movie because, you know, we licensed the song, but you know, God knows what they what they tell the band.

Johnny Rabb: I will. And I will tell you what’s funny is that he’s he’s obviously doing all his stuff with King Crimson. And somebody put in Yes, of course, of course, when kick came out and other albums to change life changing on drum parts. That’s what I’m saying. I’m gonna be quiet. Unbelievable. How many we could talk for hours on just the Hey, it’s like when Scott says something about man. I played back being like, I know. I love it. Let’s, you know, it’s like, so I’ll calm down. It’s pretty amazing how

Scott Hessel: we get a podcast about our love for Pat. I mean

Johnny Rabb: yes, we can. I mean, you know how much I love Pat Scott real quick. Let’s hear it. My friend Adrian, can you ask Pat? This is a real question. When I was researching for the annual ad he has this white drum set for one of their videos with pearl even Pearl electronic pads are on it. I went can you ask Pat if that kit I think is this love the song? It has it still in tonight either borrow it or buy it? And I think he said it was like either sold to somebody already or in storage. Damn it.

Ari Gold: Anyway. There you go. So it’s it’s in the back of some hallway like at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark. You know, Craig 1000 somewhere a drum set that you want.

Scott Hessel: SDS seven

Johnny Rabb: we can shoot. We can do a podcast about that Scott? Yeah.

Scott Hessel: Right.

Ari Gold: So Since you both I one thing I always like to mention is the Neil period connection because new period is how I became an air drummer Neil period was the inspiration for adventures of power. And then he ended up being in the movie. I know Scott, you learned moving pictures in order to train your you didn’t take lessons and that was your Yeah, that was your lesson, right is playing Yeah, very

Scott Hessel: much. And, you know, let’s not, I am under no illusion here. I did not learn to play moving pictures I thought I learned. And there is a huge distinction there because what, what practicing every day to Neil’s playing did for me was, it maybe didn’t make me a better drummer, but it gave me the confidence that I thought I was a better drummer. And then I was able to actually go and start playing with the human beings instead of just, you know, putting on some headphones and opening my sliding glass door. So the kids across the street, come and watch me play. That’s what Neil Platt practicing with Neil did for me. I you know, we didn’t have like the, you know, the YouTube videos where it would show you, you know, in depth, alright, we’re gonna slow this, we’re gonna show you how he did what he did it all that stuff would have in a way, Ben, for me would have actually been a deterrent, because I might have looked at it and said, I can never do this kind of like I look at a lot of the Instagram drummers. Like I look at a lot of the Instagrams numbers and I just want to say, okay, retirement. So if that had been the case with Neil, like, you know, when I was learning moving pictures, or trying to, you know, play along with it, I might have just said, You know what, I’m just gonna go to law school or something, you know? So I, yes, I played along.

Ari Gold: After thanks, you didn’t know how to do you would just listen and say, Okay, I mean, he’s making this sound I gotta get I gotta somehow did that sound. I

Scott Hessel: got it. And I’m sure that there, there are countless stories of drummers of our ilk who did exactly the same thing, because we all came from the same, you know, a sort of lacking that that generation of YouTube. I mean, that was there was no internet. There was no, you know, we didn’t have a cell phone. What? We just had a record player. You know, we just had a

Ari Gold: Yeah. And Neil, Neil said he learned to play drums. There. We’re losing you. I’ll

Johnny Rabb: be froze. Got

Ari Gold: my back. We lost you for a second there. Scott.

Scott Hessel: Am I still back? Nothing back. Hold on. I think I know. Coming in, Oh, my back back.

Ari Gold: I’ll just say, Neil. Neil told me that he learned to play drums by listening to keep going and playing he had magazines. You get magazine set up on his pillows. And he would play along with Keith. On his bed. Well, go ahead, John.

Johnny Rabb: No, no, please go ahead. I’ll say in a sec.

Scott Hessel: I was just gonna say. gonna say that. So hold this one. So Dave, girls, story teller book tour deal. He starts out the show. He started out the show talking about what he used to do as far as practice was concerned. And he gets on the ground. And he’s got the pillows. And he does exactly what you just described. And it’s and it was fantastic. I mean, it was like, he sort of walked us through like the, how he became the drummer that he became. And so what you’re describing, uh, once again, is, you know, the whole pillow thing and playing on pots and pans and whatever. I mean, you know, it’s so funny how we all as drummers have our stories of how we started Korea. And they all they all there’s this commonality, this beautiful just just very, you know, clean and, and innocent way that we all sort of were drawn to playing and, you know, tribal as well. I mean, you know, there was just something that obviously we all sort of connected to, you know, at an early age, probably we all had those, you know, the stupid Country and Western drum kits that we broke, you know, the first morning our parents gave them to us. Now, we all we all did that, that’s the beauty of being a drummer is that we all compare these these stories, you know, just like the guitarist can share their stories. Yeah, but drummer is, you know, you know, what I’m saying drummers are, are a lot more communal to begin with.

Ari Gold: Yep. And there is something, there is something magical impure. And I think about the the drums, the drummers that I like, you know, as a kid, there was something magical about the snare sound, you know, Oh, yeah. Bonzo, snare sound, and snare sound, where it was simply that it was simply something about that the sound that makes you feel like, Yep, I need to be a part of this, I need to, I need to hit something and find a way to make that sound less so than then the technique or the crazy moves, it would just

Scott Hessel: Well, again, you know, if I, if I was to try to accomplish what, what Johnny does, from a technical standpoint, once again, you know, maybe if I practice for the next 50 years of my life, and I could finally get in a ballpark. But the beauty of it is that there are other things that I can pick up in Johnny’s playing that just Oh, it’s just the way like just the pop of the snare and like just brew, and then the buzz and the, you know, just there, there’s certain things that like, we can all pick from each other’s playing. And, yeah, and that’s what I always I always tell people that we were all just a bunch of thieves, you know, running around, like just borrowing and making, you know, trying to, like, disguise it just enough to say, oh, yeah, that was my thing. And you know, but really, we’re all you know, we’re all doing more or less the same, you know, stick the drum stick, but it’s fantastic. You know, that’s what makes us all you know, sort of just brothers in drums.

Johnny Rabb: It’s, if I can go ahead, sorry.

Ari Gold: I was just gonna say since you’re being so complimentary of drummers, I think we should tell some some wells though, John.

Scott Hessel: Johnny, you want to go for?

Johnny Rabb: You have one? I like that. You know, what do you how do you what is it? Knock knock knock and it’s going to mess us up. But it’s like, nope, the are

Scott Hessel: already like the delivery

Johnny Rabb: joke. It’s

Scott Hessel: not knock your pizza’s here. It’s your girlfriend’s friends.

Johnny Rabb: Yeah. All those Yeah, put something in there. I want to do the drummers, you know, actually do the drummer jokes. And I gotta show you guys something that you just inspired, wasn’t planned. But do the drummer jokes. And then I’m trying to think, Wait a minute, can

Scott Hessel: you do some magic for us?

Johnny Rabb: I can’t do magic. Why not? I’m not. My friend Michael tricks out of Florida can do some magic for us. Remember him

Scott Hessel: My friend Matt Franco can do some magic before we can do a magic cast. We’ve been talking about doing like we were brainstorming. And I’m not sure I need to say this out loud. But we’re going to be doing a drum magic, saying we’re creating this. It’s in the works.

Johnny Rabb: Let me join in somehow.

Scott Hessel: Netflix special coming soon.

Johnny Rabb: I love it so much. It’s fantastic. Drummer, drummer jokes. How do you like what is it like? There’s some

Ari Gold: you know, drummer, what did the drummer get on his IQ test?

Johnny Rabb: Drove pretty accurate. Yeah.

Scott Hessel: planters that would be good, too. You get splinters? I don’t know. I went blisters. I met blisters ever mind right. Forget it.

Johnny Rabb: It’s okay. We’re drawing.

Scott Hessel: I can’t tell a joke.

Ari Gold: How’s the drum solo like a sneeze you know, it’s Oh, yeah. There’s nothing you can do to stop the mouse

Ari Gold: we’re rolling though. There’s another

Johnny Rabb: there’s a lot of like homeless girlfriends. Your mom’s back down you know?

Ari Gold: Yeah. Yeah, what do you call it drummer who’s

Johnny Rabb: kind of true? What? Yeah,

Scott Hessel: boy, you know this all the sudden I’m sure. This is how we’re viewed by most of the world.

Ari Gold: No, but I mean, we know we know that drummers are smart because when you live in rhythm it’s right it actually trains the brain at this they’re there but right up this

Johnny Rabb: Did you know all wizard all wizards and Renaissance times were called drummers how wizards wizards I just you know made my own dumb joke up my dumb riddle.

Ari Gold: Yeah. That was it a great

Johnny Rabb: quality guys something that we were just talking about. That’s cool. I think so. Yeah. over to my left like legitimately is this little rogue case see it? And on there was these I found these, and this is no BS. See this? That? I’m gonna show you guys.

Scott Hessel: Then an Oculus? What do you got there?

Johnny Rabb: No, these are legitimately the headphones. Oh

Ari Gold: my gosh. Oh, that are fantastic.

Johnny Rabb: That I wore, and they’re totally broken. from age three. Till all through, you know, maybe 12 years old. And then you got the nice set. These were in front of my closet. I mean, this is me, dude. Like, are y’all the who’s the maker of those? These are gonna be backwards. These are. These are some sweet pioneers.

Scott Hessel: These are pioneers. I was gonna say they’re pioneers aren’t this backwards,

Johnny Rabb: but this was me. Only art like cars. There’s volume is right here.

Scott Hessel: You know, that’s a you should go into a grocery store. Wearing those and see if someone stops you. Yeah, see? Exactly. My iPhone

Johnny Rabb: has been off. So I was

Ari Gold: what the ultimate audio only will have to describe so these pioneer headphones. It’s like 10 cans that are falling apart. There. Oh, you’re getting shriveled sides. It looks like but this true American manufacturing they lasted for 1000s of hours. I would imagine

Scott Hessel: Keith Boone for those turbos head in the Who are you putting on Studio Video?

Johnny Rabb: I know it’s stupid guys, but I will never get rid of them.

Scott Hessel: They don’t work. Oh, you better not. Oh, you can’t they don’t work.

Johnny Rabb: I’m gonna think I’m going to take them to my buddy that repair stuff even if they sound like garbage. But those represented decent noise cancelling. I didn’t know at the time like made you feel like you’re playing along and you’re in the studio with the guys very much. And real quickly, Scott, I get it on you think that you’re playing number owner of a lonely heart came? And I I decided to set the drum kit up in front of the bifold closet doors like a stage right? And man, I would just shed that thing to God, dude. Try and get the Hi Hat open. Yes. I’m sure if you listened to what I was doing. It was nowhere near that. But

Scott Hessel: it but you know what? It didn’t matter? Right? It did. Right? Because it gave me confidence.

Ari Gold: Like, out. You know, everyone sounds great after singing along to something in shower. Hello. Hello, it’s just flew by. So I usually try to keep these two in an hour or an hour. It doesn’t help or doubt but but for for sanity, I spin my bid my rule? Is there something that it’s there? Because there’s a lot of drummers listening, and we’ll be listening. When we publish the podcast, what what do you advise to people who maybe are coming up as drummers, as Scott said, maybe in the Instagram and YouTube world, and they’re becoming geniuses with technique and playing by themselves to a camera? How do you transition from that level of technique that we’re getting and people who were raised that way to actually creating music that everyone wants to hear? Any any wisdom on that? Yeah,

Scott Hessel: well, I think that, first of all, it’s not to disparage any of the fine musicians that I that we’re referencing here. But what I would suggest is, you know, once you are doing these amazing things, creating these these amazing Instagram videos, and clearly you’re a fantastic player. Make sure that you actually are not neglecting the other side of the equation, which is actually how to interact with a human being. And you know, learning the the ins and outs of the politics of actually being a working musician and being in a band and realizing that, you know, there are three or four other human beings with the same aspirations as you do. And, and, you know, make sure your camera doesn’t five seconds when? Yes. And but, uh, but no the other the other stuff is is in a way it’s if not as important I think it’s probably more important in the end because what you’re going to find

Ari Gold: quite is someone just wrote, don’t stare at the camera in the videos for God’s sake. And I completely agree because there’s something you see these people playing. And they’re just looking, they’re looking right into the camera because well, they get more likes that way helps but it does it really silly. And in a way it’s, I mean, it’s it’s a little bit like a microcosm of our digital world where you can get people who, whether they’re great porn performers, or, or others that on another camera and they’re not. No,

Scott Hessel: I mean, no, never mind. Oh, no, I mean, I think that yeah, it is kind of like, Hey, look at me, I’m over here and trying to create a sense of excitement about the thing that, that, you know, that person is doing. But like I said, once you graduate from that, you know, you better know how to, like say, Good morning to your bandmates. And not, you know, and not slam the bus door when other people are trying to sleep and, you know, be kind to your tour manager and things, things that that hopefully, are going to come along eventually for all of these cats that are, you know, shredding, because there are a lot of cat shredding. I mean, man. I mean, if let’s put it this way, I mean, I have no, I’m under no illusion. If, if, if I was trying to break in now. And I was up against the competition that’s out there. Now. I personally don’t know that I would have the confidence to say, All right, well, I think I want to be in a rock and roll band. I think I’m going to go do that, that that thing that you know, that everybody else seems to be doing? Maybe I would maybe I wouldn’t maybe it would make me strive even harder to get better. Okay, there’s that argument as well. But the point is, you have to have the other part of it as in addition to the playing ability. The human ability you just have to remember you know, yeah, human being and that a good one a nice one. You can Well, oh, Scotty Oh guys, Paul.

Johnny Rabb: Oh, he’s all it looks like it’s you know, rejoining

Ari Gold: you don’t have a camera turned around

Johnny Rabb: Oh my God. Somebody had just said sorry, leave your egos at home. And it’s like of course. What a great reminder what do you you know, when you’re away from being lucky to be on stage or you did you did your movie you did your everything you’ve done. You can easily have an ego of like, yeah, look at the awards. I’ve won. Look at what I’ve done. And it’s like, no, it’s like there shouldn’t be you should be a human being what do you do at home? Do you do mow the lawn? I just got there. We’re just talking about like the leave the ego at home. So he put there that’s part of it. I also think the original back to what you were saying, Scott. I don’t know. My fear sometimes is I see and I won’t even name names but I see a few chosen people like oh my lord like they are in their what would be like equivalent of my studio or something. And they’re putting out these ridiculous like, if I really got my ego out of the way of like, Oh, I see what they’re doing. And I really put my thing aside when it would be a holy crap factor. I cannot believe what they’re playing first off. But I fear is I don’t see these and this is not I’m not going to be this guy that goes what records you played on? Who Yeah, tell me what tours you’ve done. I can’t there’s always that side of it that kind of like, yeah, you’ve Trumps But show me what you play in front of me. So I’m not going to be that rude. That’s a couple friends that like to do that thing. And I’m myself. I feel like I know you guys can probably play with people. It’d be rad to see you go do a record or go to a club and play with your funk band or I get scared a little bit when it’s all in a box. Where each day is for these folks, it’s a roll the five cameras go to Final Cut or Premiere. And, you know, we all know we have to learn these programs besides being a drummer Now, unfortunately, right. But I get scared. Even for the kid prodigies, and there are some kid prodigies, male, I’m on Oprah, I get scared that that high level of offering out of the gate is going to make the brain think, well, this is what it’s going to be from now on. And they’re going to become 15 or 17. And those things go away, not because they’re not good, but because the novelty of them being young and amazing goes away. 100. So I get scared for them, not a diss folks, it’s a you know what I’m saying? Like, like, there’s no guarantees ever in any year next year, the band could decide I’m not touring, or I’m not. We just don’t want to have you anymore. Johnny, I’m not an idiot. There’s 1000s of drummers that could step right in. So I tried to keep my eyes focused on, I like to have fun with the job. So I like to goof off and there and put some Instagram out. But it’s so important to play with humans. Right? You know, and my last thing is, there’s enough stuff online, I talked to my wife about this very bold comment, I know we’re like run over time. The internet could be designed to be enough to be a university style degree in teaching of drums. Broad state, but it would definitely take a coach or someone stepping in guiding people what to watch what to work on in checkpoints. Nothing replaces a human on how to do grips. Don’t get me wrong, guys, I’m just saying the amount of good knowledge on the internet is there. But there’s also the amount of in between and the amount of bad, that’s the trouble. So

Ari Gold: not Yeah, and the point is that it can only get you to a certain level, because you have to be somebody and because the best drummers whether we want this to be the case or not. And the best musicians of all types are the ones who know how to listen. Yeah,

Scott Hessel: very much. And it is more about listening, then, than the playing part you have to you have to do but but you have to do both. But listening, listening, not only listening when you’re on stage, or in the studio, but listening just you know, to when you’re on and on that long drive, you know, that kind of listening, like just the the human interaction, you know, just being a friend. These are things like that, you know, that have less to do with music than they do just human interaction. But it’s a very important part of being if you want to be in a band, and be in a band that’s actually successful. Because there are plenty of bands with, you know, kids, and they what did they last one or two years, and then you never hear from them again. You know, there are reasons why bands don’t last for more than a few years. Mostly, it’s because of that, you know, constant interaction, and oh, this guy drives me crazy in this, you know, you sort of have to realize, yeah, mostly about just being you know, a kind human being and being having empathy and realizing that not every day is gonna be a great day for your buddy over there, you know, playing whatever. And, you know, it’s that kind of deal. So, good point,

Ari Gold: Well, profound note to end on. Johnny, Scott, thank you so much for joining. As you know, the movie Adventures of power. We’re sending money to music cares when people buy or rent it or even stream it on Amazon. So you know, everyone, please support music cares. Those of us who are supporting Ukraine continue to do that as well. I was just in Ukraine man a few months ago so it’s quite Yeah, personal. What’s going on? But much love to you guys, your your soulful, beautiful, brilliant musicians. And I appreciate you spending this piece of

Johnny Rabb: honor. Thank you both.

Scott Hessel: It was our honor.

Ari Gold: You have a have a good day, and have a great day everyone out there. Bye. Okay. Bye

This interview originally appeared on Hotsticks.fm.

See more about Johnny Rabb & Scott Hessel on the official site for Adventures of Power, the world’s greatest (and only) Air Drum Movie!

Enjoyed this session? Explore more from the Interviews Archive.

We talk about Neil Peart as someone who never stopped learning, about John Bonham’s ability to make power feel effortless, and about the strange way rhythm teaches you patience before it teaches you confidence. The conversation drifts the way real conversations do — from technique to touring stories, from influence to instinct — and somewhere in there, a deeper truth emerges about why musicians keep doing this even when it’s hard.

What I love about this episode is how honest it feels. There’s humor, nostalgia, and a lot of respect for the lineage that came before. There’s also a clear sense that drumming isn’t just a role in a band — it’s a way of organizing time, energy, and attention in a chaotic world. These are the conversations that remind me why rhythm matters, and why it continues to pull people together across generations.”

The Legacy of the Greats

Arejay and Taylor reflect on the drummers who shaped them—Neil Peart’s intellectual rigor, John Bonham’s impossible pocket, and Keith Moon’s fearless abandon. We explore how legacy isn’t about imitation, but about understanding feel.

The Pocket and the Philosophy

Ari breaks down the idea of the “pocket” as a physical and spiritual space—how far you can sit back in time without losing the beat. The conversation turns technical, then philosophical, revealing how groove is learned through patience, not force.

Brotherhood Over Rivalry

Despite playing in different bands, Arejay and Taylor describe a shared ecosystem—touring friendships, mutual respect, and the unspoken bond between drummers. This isn’t competition; it’s kinship.

Rhythm as Survival

The discussion widens into music education, mental health, and the confidence that comes from learning rhythm young. Drumming becomes more than a skill—it becomes a tool for navigating chaos, grief, and change.

What Comes Next

The episode closes with hints of collaboration, reflections on pandemic-era creativity, and the belief that sometimes the best move isn’t to plan the release—but to drop the music when it’s ready.

Watch video version here:

RAW TRANSCRIPT (Pardon the old-school glitches):

Yep — here you go. I capitalized and kept them bold (and didn’t touch anything else).

ARI GOLD: Hello, my name is Ari Gold. I am the director of the air drum movie Adventures of power also the Guinness Book World Guinness record holder for air drumming. It’s true. And I’m honored and privileged to have two dueling drummers, drummers in different bands who are also working on a secret project together. RJ from Halestorm and Taylor from lit. Joining me today to talk about drums life. Art, passion, air drums. Welcome, guys.

AREJAY HALE: We’re on the air right now. So it’s like… air drums

ARI GOLD: Yes, exactly. We’ve been working on that job for a long time. Right?

AREJAY HALE: I’ve been thinking of it for the past hour. Yes. Yeah. Taylor’s like, Wait

ARI GOLD: Wait a minute. I don’t want to collaborate with you anymore. Ari Gold

AREJAY HALE: I love doing entourage by the way. Oh, why? I can’t believe that they stole your name.

ARI GOLD: Yeah, they stole my name. Well, I know this is a brief story. But yes, the drummers speaking of drummers, the drummer of my band, the honey brothers was cast in entourage and his managers took my name without permission. And I was not paid. And then was the brakes

AREJAY HALE: Oh now we know what Kramer feels like from Seinfeld, because they totally stole his name. And he didn’t get it. Right.

ARI GOLD: Exactly. Notorious. He made some money at that.

AREJAY HALE: I’m sure he cashed in on so you should do the same thing. You know, real Ari Gold do real Ari Gold World Tour.

ARI GOLD: Yeah. So we are we’re talking about drums today we’ve got my movie adventures a power show in which new appeared was in. One of the sponsors of this event is Modern Drummer. The main the main sponsor and monitor drummer has a wonderful special about Neil period. It’s the 2020 Modern Drummer festival. So I hope any of you who are fans of any kind of rock music, but particularly Drum Fans, please go to pierde dot air drummer.com to buy the special on Modern Drummer. The money goes to support research into brain cancer, which is what took this wonderful gentleman and the professor the greatest drummer. That we all knew so anyway, please, please check it out. It’s four hours of amazing drumming and all the people honoring him. So you guys, Miller and Taylor and RJ love to hear a little bit of your rush, rush connection, either literal or spiritual.

AREJAY HALE: I think that’s absolutely amazing. But you guys are doing and and giving the proceeds to such a great cause, like something that affects so many people like you know, good for you guys. Thank you for doing that.

ARI GOLD: Well, what you have a connection to to come to needles. Tom’s right.

AREJAY HALE: I can so ask for requests by my producer Nick rescue Linux, I cannot confirm nor deny. I am playing neil peart. Tom’s on the in the studio right now on our new record, so Okay, well, keep the mystery alive. They’re

ARI GOLD: Happening. That would be amazing. And if it were happening, it would be even more amazing.

AREJAY HALE: If they were Neil perch. Tom’s let me just say They sound amazing. Yeah, like it true. If that were the case, it just shows the absolute genius of a musician he has a lot of people think of drummers is like a fan. And most of us are granted especially me and Taylor, but he was an artist. He was a drumming artist. He was a lyricist. He was a he dealt with his own horrible tragedies. Probably one of the biggest tragedies that any person can adore, losing losing loved ones that he did, and, and I’ve heard this from everybody. And of course, our producer, Nick that’s doing our new record also produced the last two, I think was the last two records and couldn’t say the nicest things. Yeah, I couldn’t say nice things about him. And about the whole band. They’re just they’re Canadian, gentlemen. Well, I mean, it’s are awesome. You know, every Canadian I met is super awesome. So I never got a chance to meet you, unfortunately. But um, his legacy is just an incredible artist, an incredible musician, not just a drummer but musician and lyricist and songwriter. And and just person humanitarian,

ARI GOLD: You know? Yeah, people were fans are really scared of him in a way I mean, they’re worshipping him, but I rush shows you would always see these guys are drumming on the side of the stage. And then when I did a collaboration with him while he was in the air drum movie, but then we also did a little promotion for where he played Tom Sawyer and I played air drums right next to him as my character power and like, there were a lot of fans who loved it, but there were a lot of people who were pissed who were like, How dare you disrespect And I’m like, you can see closer than you can see him laughing. But somehow people were like, Oh, he’s a God. He doesn’t have a sense of humor. Like no, no, he has a great sense of humor. No, he

AREJAY HALE: From what I’ve heard. He was the most lighthearted, hilariously funny, and just kind kind soul. So when we lost them there was it was a great it was a big loss. Yeah, and these are

ARI GOLD: Horrible. Yeah, so Taylor are the kids. You’ve been the silent good looking guy in the corner. I want to but yes, you who are your biggest drum influences like what what what was the first thing like, even from the aerodrome, so I know everyone I mean, large already told me there’s like a lot of people like they airdrome before they drum so you probably air drums before you drum who did you airdrome to

TAYLOR CARROLL: Tell you hertz definitely one of them. Keith Moon Yeah, Keith Moon fan.

ARI GOLD: What what Keith Moon song got you as a little kid going this?

TAYLOR CARROLL: I’ll give you a hint teenage wasteland I have to say I didn’t I wasn’t sure on the Phil. I was huge. Yeah, okay, he’ll if you guys know who that guy is.

ARI GOLD: Yeah, I hear he’s, I hear he’s not as good looking as you but you know? Oh.

AREJAY HALE: A lot Ari. God that is right. That is correct. That is correct. That’s why That’s why we have Taylor around you know he’s he’s the looks

ARI GOLD: Yeah so so what’s what? What what bonds Oh, song we are coming to when you were eight.

TAYLOR CARROLL: Good times. Bad times is always my good shoe. I just I just love that. Yeah. Got like with this heavy foot. And yeah, it’s a really interesting hand foot fills and guys I was reading

ARI GOLD: Last night I was reading a blog about like someone who was who was a neil peart fan was like, I’m new to drums, and I love Neil Peart. And I am trying to figure out other people say that John Bonham is a great drummer. What’s the difference? And then someone wrote this very nuanced response about you know, basically, John Bonham having this incredible pocket. His packet. That’s what you know, the driving force of Led Zeppelin was his pocket. He appeared very intellectual, forceful, but it wasn’t so much about like sitting back in the park. What’s amazing with Bondo was like he could play really fast, but somehow it sounded super relaxed.

AREJAY HALE: Yeah. Especially if you hear a song like cashmere, where it’s just like, it’s just like, you’re falling backwards when you listen to it’s amazing.

ARI GOLD: Yeah, think of it like a clock. You know, there’s, there’s, if the beat is there, the beat is here, and each beat. I mean, each like quarter note is like this. Yeah, a really great drummer can figure out how far back they can sit on the beat. Like if this is like the metronomic Right, right, but how far they can fall back without it falling off the beat. And great Jazz. Jazz drummers have that skill. And John Bonham was trained in jazz so he had that ability to sit really far back.

AREJAY HALE: I’ve heard Jimmy Page say that the secret to bottoms playing was rushing the kick and pulling back on the snare. That was like the secret. That’s what I’ve heard anyway.

ARI GOLD: Dude, rushing.

TAYLOR CARROLL: I don’t know about you guys.

ARI GOLD: On this one show,

TAYLOR CARROLL: You’ll need his his high hat work was always what got me. He had so much going on. But it didn’t sound too busy. It always had a flow to it. But he also like he was able to stay busy without it sounding like too much. The guy had a really crazy cool pocket with that. Yeah,

ARI GOLD: Yeah. I mean, if the two of you were to ever collaborate on something together what how? Yeah, how would you divide that we should do that? Right, Taylor? I mean, if you guys ever you know, your friends, if you were ever to do something together, would you both play drums? Like, uh, you know, Grateful Dead, but for the modern era type of thing, or would you do different instruments?

AREJAY HALE: I think there would be nothing wrong with with doing some dueling drums. I always love that there’s a Foo Fighters concert from, I think it was alive in the tabernacle, where at one point in one of the songs that he was stacked actors. Dave throws the guitar and hops behind another drum set. And then him and Taylor just trade licks back and forth. And it was pretty cool. Like I’ve and also another band that we grew up listening to in the in the Christian world was the newsboys. And they did the same thing. They have two drummers and that was always like so mind blowing to be you know.

ARI GOLD: Wow. I didn’t know that. There were I mean, as I played drums on, I mean, you’re a drummer more than I’m a drummer, but when I played drums, I I don’t think I ever could imagine playing drums at the same time as another drummer.

AREJAY HALE: It worked for the Doobie Brothers. And the Allman Brothers.

ARI GOLD: I didn’t know that they had two drummers, I think the bands have so many guys, I’d see like the old photographs. And it’s like, a lot of guys in that band. I don’t know what’s going on, but there’s a lot of them.

AREJAY HALE: And I think if Taylor and I perhaps like do something together, then there would definitely be some dueling drumming happening. You don’t put two powerhouse drummers in a project together. And and of course, I’m talking about you and Greg. You don’t put you don’t put you can’t put him in a room together and, and not expect like two drum kits to appear somewhere. Some of you

ARI GOLD: You guys play drums live on stage together. And I want Taylor to answer this because he’s he’s been so quiet. Taylor. Yeah. Have you ever played on stage with RJ?

TAYLOR CARROLL: We haven’t played on a stage together yet. But two drum sets? We haven’t done that yet. No. But someday, perhaps we might do that. We’re always doing this next to each other when we’re thinking about what to say next. or coming up with a part. I mean, I just can’t stop hitting our chest.

AREJAY HALE: Man stop Yeah, I That would be cool. Huh? If we ever do a show with lit and we’re on the same bill together, then you can definitely expect to see one of us popping up in the other one set. You know,

TAYLOR CARROLL: Here’s a fun fact about lit AJ my singer. He was actually the original drummer for lit. He was the drummer before Alan.

ARI GOLD: So do you feel that the heat? Do you feel the heat of him sort of questioning your drum choices from time to time?

TAYLOR CARROLL: You know, I don’t he has been a pretty cool team player. He you know, come on, give

ARI GOLD: Give us some dirt.

TAYLOR CARROLL: I kind of know honestly, I honestly play the parts that that are on the record yet. We haven’t done like a record together yet. We’re working on new stuff right now. But I haven’t I’m not man eight. I even asked AJ I was like, Hey, dude, you know what, what would you do here or whatever he’s like, man, it’s been a while since I’ve been in the game. So I’d love to see AJ I think we should all vote that AJ plays drums some time. For a little bit any tries to sing at the same time. I think it’d be kind of a fun, interesting choice.

ARI GOLD: But then if RJ joins AJ on drums, and then you’re playing drums at three drum sets. There you go in time. Yeah, a lot of drums. Yeah. That will be something you know, I mean, Neal peered the conductor bring bringing always back to him. But you know, he, and in the, you know, last decade, he was traveling to another country traveling to Africa. And like studying how, you know, drummers worked with other drummers, who’s always trying to learn more about rhythm. And I was up to him like playing with some amazing African drummers and like him just one of one of a group of people and then being amazed by him and him being amazed by them. And

AREJAY HALE: It was pretty remarkable to see him in his career go from match grip to traditional grip back to match grip. I think there was a point his career where he was studying a lot of jazz studying a lot of old school, Dixieland jazz and stuff like that. And that was when he started getting into the more traditional style of playing traditional grip and all that.

ARI GOLD: Yeah, he was a big Buddy Rich fanatic.

AREJAY HALE: Oh, yeah, weren’t we all

TAYLOR CARROLL: Played traditional grip live with a while there. He didn’t didn’t. I didn’t know that. I didn’t know that either.

AREJAY HALE: I just remember that from he did a I used to watch this like, promotional video he put out for the album test for Echo. He did a like a thing where it was, it was a long, like a two hour documentary. But it was just him talking about musical theories, charming theories, and things like that, and breaking down each part that he wrote for that whole album. And according to that documentary, he was playing traditional grip at that time. So it’s just it just shows the versatility and the artistry of his playing.

ARI GOLD: Yeah, we did. I did an interview with him where we’re talking about how to work the wave rhythm. They’ve been, they’ve shown that people if kids study rhythm, play drums, play instruments, but particularly if they get into rhythm, they become better at math and science. Yeah. And when we released adventure to power the first time we were raising money to support Music education for kids, and we she donated drums and we were able to raise enough money. We had a lot of great donors. I mean, Ringo Starr came in. A lot of great drummers came in but yeah, we raised enough money to open a music school, or to reopen the music school. Have a public school that had had it cut from budget cuts. And like I remember sent him this video of like all these like, you know, seven year olds opening instruments for the first time they’d been denied go when they’re five and there was nothing there. And then suddenly there’s all these instruments getting shipped in and the music teachers who have been, like, relegated to like custodial duties, I don’t know, but they were still at the school, teaching other things. They’re coming in, they’re all excited. They were dramas, trombones, like fluids, everything coming out of these boxes, and the kids are like, so and you can see like, everything’s getting activated. And he knew that like, you know, it’s such an important part of like, being a real well rounded human. Yes, neck with rhythm.

AREJAY HALE: So I’ve heard I’ve heard countless psychologists talk about not only just the benefits of mathematics and science through through music, education, but also just confidence building and and can can help later in life combat certain, you know, mental or social disorders. You know, I think just having that having the creative outlet to channel your emotions and feelings into something and, and and watch it develop and develop that confidence to be able to master something like that. Something creative, I think just does wonders for your psyche, and does nothing but help in your development in life.

ARI GOLD: Quite quiet. Taylor, I want you to tell me what when you were when you were like had when you were I’m gonna just say 13 You’re in eighth grade. Oh, yeah, you’re in despair. Life is just maybe you’re not getting the love you want something’s not going right. What was the music that like made you feel like life was worth living? brought you back on track,

TAYLOR CARROLL: My Dad revealed Led Zeppelin to me. And it’s like Pink Floyd and Jethro Tull that was kind of a really helpful thing to play along with those records when I was little and then got into punk rock, you know? That’s like when

ARI GOLD: You say punk.. What do you mean by punk? Because punk means a lot of different things could be in the MC five I got a

TAYLOR CARROLL: To me punk was like the casualties rancid millon Cullen, stuff like that. Okay? Like try to play along to it. And my poor parents, and I’m sure RJ parents who I’ve met, by the way, the first one I met RJ is with his parents to the Mall of America parking.

ARI GOLD: We went to John Stuart Taylor, give us a little context here.

TAYLOR CARROLL: Oh, the first time we met or the stuff I used to play along to?

ARI GOLD: Well, no, I want to hear like how you meet his parents. The first time you meet him. You also meet his parents in a parking lot. What’s going on?

TAYLOR CARROLL: No, it was great. Um, I used to play for a band called pillar. I don’t know if you guys have ever heard of those guys or not. But it was a band back in the day we we had to deal with Sony and we were out in the kind of the active rock circuit in 2008 and nine, or is it 2009? That RJ got the nine. So we were in the Mall of America parking lot. It was a day off. And we looked out of our bus window. We’re like, oh, that’s an RV that kind of looks like a band. A band. And so me being my outgoing, you know, self. You know, nice to meet you strangers. I knocked on their RV and they’re like, Yeah, you know, I think was it you that answered? You

AREJAY HALE: Think it was me that answered? Yeah. Cuz we’re like, oh, we’re next to a tour. But it’s like this was like our we just released our first record. We were talking in a camper van. In an RV. We call it Stormin Norman storming, but it was a piece of crap. And this bus pulls up next was like, oh, big time band. And then we, you know, maybe five minutes later, you know, knock on the door, and it’s like, hey, but in all fairness, he what he did, the first thing you said was like, Hey, you guys have any beer? Yeah.

TAYLOR CARROLL: So I was just curious if they had any beer.

ARI GOLD: It’s like, pardon me? Pardon me. Do you have any Grey Poupon? That’s like, the modern version very.

TAYLOR CARROLL: And so we ended up hanging out and right in the Rugrats ride together in the mall. Yeah. The Rugrats cried and then you me and Lizzie and chugging monster energy drinks like they were going out of style. That’s

AREJAY HALE: So my dad was so in the early days of hailstorm. My parents used to tour with us my mom was our tour manager and my dad was driving the RV back in the early days because that’s all we could afford. So yeah, Taylor literally met me and my parents at the same time so we we got past that hole like getting to know the parents awkward phase. You know, we just jumped right in.

TAYLOR CARROLL: It was great. His mom like the first thing she said to me, do you need another beer honey? She says sweet.

AREJAY HALE: We just got off a tour of Shinedown and they were late. They were going home but we were staying out to do more headline show. So they gave us all their overtime. dock for the riders. So we just had like, like a huge Tupperware bins full of beer and booze. And we’re like a broke ass like opener opener band, like we’re lucky to get maybe a 12 pack of beer and a case of water every day. And our trailer is, you know, Florida sealing stock. So he’s like, You got to be, I think at the time killer like they had to drive us like nobody was trying to be sober. So you’re just like, you got a beer. We’re like, do we have beer? Come on in? Yeah. So

TAYLOR CARROLL: You guys the whole night. It was it was.

AREJAY HALE: We’ve been super tight ever since it’s crazy. And I remember thinking

TAYLOR CARROLL: I was like, Dude, I really hope these guys do something huge because of how badass you were as people. And next thing I know, like a year two years later, hailstorm, hailstorm hit and I was like, yeah,

AREJAY HALE: It was like right first, right before our first single came out. And, and, yeah, a couple months after that, we started doing a lot more headline tours. And yeah, it was, that was kind of the cusp of our career. So yeah, that was a cool time. And here we are. 11 years later, still is thieves. still dating?

TAYLOR CARROLL: Yeah, they aren’t going back to my parents. I used to annoy the living hell out of them all day trying to play punk music when I wasn’t able to. It probably sounded like this. And like my dad, you know, but they were so cool about it. I don’t know. RJ your parents are probably super cool about it too. Right? like

AREJAY HALE: Yeah, but I mean, your your dad actually is a very successful Grammy Award winning artist. So I think you probably you know, my parents were just glad that I was you know, not doing drugs or in

TAYLOR CARROLL: Jail so Yeah, exactly.

AREJAY HALE: Till I did drugs went to jail, but that’s beside

ARI GOLD: What drugs, aspirin?

AREJAY HALE: Yeah. Tylenol. Yeah. And now that we’re in our 30s That’s like, that’s our existence now. It’s like health supplements and ibuprofen. That’s, that’s what makes the world go round. Yeah. Yeah.

ARI GOLD: Medicinal mushrooms. From fungi. Perfect died.

AREJAY HALE: Hey, can you hook us up? We should have done some before this. It would have been really interesting.

TAYLOR CARROLL: Oh, my God. No, no.

ARI GOLD: So technically, we’re going to wrap up in about five minutes unless you guys want to keep chatting. And then we’re going to turn on adventures of power the movie. Those of you who are watching and want to see the movie and don’t have time right now you can go you can get on Amazon Prime. It’s called Adventures of power Neil period is in and it’s all about music. And it’s a comedy about an air drummer who saves the world. And Neil period is in it. There’s a lot of great rock music in it. And is there anything you guys want to say about the possibility of a collaboration in the future between the two of you know,

TAYLOR CARROLL: Possible and it just happens? Well,

AREJAY HALE: Taylor, not only is it it’s credible drummer but and just incredible. He’s like, a calm Swiss Army Man of music because he plays guitar, he sings, he plays everything I also sing. And, and both of us are also songwriters. So we have developed this kind of really good songwriting, creative partnership. And we’re hoping that someday soon, if you just keep your ear out, there might be something cool and collaborative that we’re that we’ve been working on that may come out sooner than you think maybe

TAYLOR CARROLL: There might be a record or you know, that might be coming out after the new year.

ARI GOLD: You know, who knows? There might be there might be something that just drops without warning. Yeah,

AREJAY HALE: In true fashion, that’s how we do it. I mean,

ARI GOLD: Let’s be honest, I mean, these days like the sort of the idea of the long lead where you like prepare a release for six months and like, people’s memory is like five seconds now anyway, like just dropping on day of seems like maybe the best policy these days.

AREJAY HALE: I’ll tell you what kind of star creative collaboration was, in lieu of the pandemic and everything being shut down. Normally, both of us are on tour 10 months out of the year. And what

ARI GOLD: We’re getting some fan questions about that, like any any sense of what you guys can be doing either like actual tour or, or online tours, and you know, even just playing live online, people are asking,

TAYLOR CARROLL: We talked about doing some online streaming work. We’re kind of getting all that in order right now. We may or may not be getting all that in order.

AREJAY HALE: Well, you actually did an online concert with Linden, you too, as we did, we lit.

TAYLOR CARROLL: We did a Brooklyn Bowl thing in Nashville in October and it went really well. The sound was cool, cuz you never know like I was like, you know Can they hear everything how’s the mix and those guys did a killer job yeah, but collaboration we we may or may not you know do something like that soon

AREJAY HALE: Yeah same with hailstorm we’re open to a lot of different ideas we’re gonna try to start getting the wheels turning next year for stuff like that but because there was no touring you know, Taylor and I we don’t know how to sit still and we have to do something creative and and we just started talking again and hanging out just talking on Zoom and then we just kind of developed this real good knack for writing music together and we’re like, hey, like, when we put our heads together, we come up some cool stuff so uh, you know, hopefully somebody will watch it come from all this writing the melody

ARI GOLD: And the lyrics and everything even though you’re you’re not drummers Yeah.

TAYLOR CARROLL: Alright, we started boyband

ARI GOLD: Ever question like playing with a with a sibling when I played music with my twin brother my twin brother who wrote all the music for adventures of power we I hit the music he he wrote because we got a bunch of amazing songs we got Phil Collins doing in the air tonight with God we just breathed we’ve got rush we’ve got some like big artists in there but then some stuff we didn’t get we were trying to get up I’m not supposed to say but there were certain bands we tried to get through songs and we couldn’t and then my brother had to write something to match the drums later and have it sound like the era of the song we were you know having my character airdrome do and he did a great job but we would want to kill each other Oh you know tour van with your sister. Yeah, like can you tell Can you share like is there a story that you’ve never shared before that you can that that is just like something insane brother sister like craziness that what really

TAYLOR CARROLL: You guys seem to get along really well what really happened

AREJAY HALE: You know, we just don’t have the energy to fight and you know, I guess we we could but we’re like you know what, we’ve always been super supportive of each other and like and just super just you know pretty light laid back with each other and so it’s

ARI GOLD: So full of it. There was one time when you screamed at each other and you wanted to quit the band I want to hear that moment. We have fans from New Zealand who were like it’s in the middle of the night and they were like up to watch this so give a story to New Zealand right now from a fan that is like wants to hear crazy story about you and your sister

AREJAY HALE: Was just like the Lord’s the underworld in South Park where is like I’m going soon. I’ll see you on famous backside and it’s like Schuyler Silla project reached for the Skyler is over the opera. Now man, I got nothing juicy for it. We’re just what we’re maybe we’re just old and tired and decrepit from constantly being on the road, but we’re like, you know, what, we don’t have the energy to like argue about things because like, for the most part, we’re we’re pretty much on the same page about everything where it’s like, we get it, you know, um, but I mean that maybe that comes also with like, talking with our parents, you know, like, we never really got into like, anything to, you know, any, like serious bad habits. We’re just we’ve always been there for each other and literally, like, having having your sibling with you on the road. Like, it really feels like there. That’s that’s like your main family right there. You know, like we, I mean, our parents are, we’re super close with our parents, but we’re always on the road. We never really get a chance to see him all that often. So, you know, like, we’re just so grateful to have each other. And I’m sure Taylor, you can say the same thing about Jeremy and AJ right.

TAYLOR CARROLL: Yeah, they never fight.

ARI GOLD: Are you serious? You’re so full of it.

TAYLOR CARROLL: They might or might not have a couple or you

ARI GOLD: Can say you can’t say by the way, there’s a fan who is just going berserk for your right here. So just early, you know, you’re getting you’re getting some fan love for you right here.

TAYLOR CARROLL: Oh, my girlfriend’s my hairstylist. Yes, for sure.

ARI GOLD: I will say about RJ that. When the very last song that my brother rode the end of the tail credits of adventures of power. We wanted a singer who had like the chops of heart. And your sister has those kinds of chops together at the time we would have recorded it with her but like she has like ability to like, you know, there are brand new people who can do what like Ann Wilson did and yours. Yeah. Has that.

AREJAY HALE: And Wilson will heart was a huge one for both of us growing up. That was a massive influence that our mom introduced us to and and if it wasn’t for heart, I don’t know where Halestorm would even be because at the time there really weren’t a lot of female influences out there for a lot of other Are women now you see, now I’m so happy to see especially in the rock world you see more and more and more females in rock music and and not even in the bands but also in the audience you see it’s so much more diverse and I love that I love that there’s it’s a great Haven. You know?

ARI GOLD: Are you jealous that she’s saying with Dream Theater?

AREJAY HALE: Oh, no, no, I’ve known Mike for forever and I’ve known those guys for a long time and no, it’s totally cool

ARI GOLD: why I hope she’ll I hope she’ll watch adventures and power and listen to the very last song at the end of the tale credits which is like playing during like the bonus features. And listen to the woman who’s saying that we found her from a journey cover band to sing like the final song at the end of the tale credits like a kind of emotional like hardstyle ballot and the main the Deaf character in the movie played by Shauna Stern. From supernatural she was named any after dreamboat Annie in honor of heart as well. There’s also a fan question. Someone asking Taylor Have you played with Dennis Hill?

TAYLOR CARROLL: Have I’ve hung out with Dennis I love Dennis Hill. You played with Dennis Hill. I’ve not played with him. Unless having an acoustic guitar and him having an acoustic guitar at a hotel while we’re drinking counts. Does that count as playing?

ARI GOLD: I think that counts. I mean it really count more for the fan if you turned on your Instagram Live or something. And like shared it, but you know next time

TAYLOR CARROLL: I know I love Dennis I met Dennis at my second live show ever it was a New Year’s show. And Dennis is like the most down to earth. Well, so is this guy right here RJ? I mean, you know, he’s want to talk. I mean, this guy’s a badass but no Dennis Dennis

ARI GOLD: Mica. When he turns around he looks like a Karen I’m like, Oh my God, you’re gonna start yelling at someone for wearing a mask.

AREJAY HALE: This is what happens when you go to your girlfriend’s house of hair. Like my girlfriend literally. Because I don’t go to the barber shops was that

TAYLOR CARROLL: Where did you get your hair?

AREJAY HALE: Oh, yes. I got a hair from blitz from A house guy. That’s right. Yeah, Jay Jay solo and his wife. And it’s what dude? Yes, that’s right. His wife on engineers mixers like they literally bleached this in the sink of the bathroom in the studio. Because the dance that we did a photoshoot with Kevin from lead who took photos of us and he is also an incredible photographer.

TAYLOR CARROLL: And he is shooting my girlfriend’s album cover tomorrow.

AREJAY HALE: Oh, that sounds so dangerous.

ARI GOLD: One other important camera catch. And speaking of album covers are fans who are just saying when it’s some new stuff from from lit and hailstorm. And if you guys were to work together, you’re gonna drop just just so that they know like how to fix their hair. How close are we to releases?

TAYLOR CARROLL: When’s the hailstorm stuff coming?

AREJAY HALE: Oh well we’re in the studio now with Nick rescue Linux and we’re tracking and just writing and kind of getting the the wheels turning

ARI GOLD: During the you know what that means? Give us a date.

AREJAY HALE: Ah, I, I maybe hopefully at some point next year, maybe next fall at the way it is. But don’t quote me on that. I don’t know how these things happen. Okay, you never know what we’re like there. We’re really in the infancy stages of writing and tracking and recording and just kind of like getting songs together. So during the whole pandemic we just we purposely like did not get together we’d stay very safe very separated. And now we’re kind of just like in a very small like what we’re doing it like one person at a time and do your very safe Luckily, he’s got a big studio, we can we can keep our distance and just like hang out with each other and just wave to each other from long distances. But we’re in a hazmat suit. Yes, yes. You can probably find some video that online somewhere super sweated as far as

TAYLOR CARROLL: That stuff goes we there’s some demos that are happening and some new songs being written right now and I’m really loving what what they’re getting what they’re writing and all that stuff. So I don’t know when the release is going to happen though unfortunately but a man music

ARI GOLD: Diamante. This year though, sometime this year because they the rerelease will be released to the old record, right? That’s right. Yeah. So okay. I so we’re gonna we’re gonna move to Adventures of power the movie I want to also want to say that lit is doing a full band live stream at seven o’clock. So those of you who are watching the movie might want to jump off and do that you can watch the movie at any time at adventuresofpower.com, airdrummer.com , or watch it on Amazon. If you buy it on Vimeo, we get more money and that money goes to MusiCares, which is an amazing charity that it’s run by the Grammy Association and they are supporting musicians who are suffering during this time, which particularly musicians sort of like work a day musicians whose livelihood is based on gigging and can’t gig right now. Super, super important. So if you watch it versus power on Amazon, or if you watch it on Vimeo, you’re actually helping musicians live. And you also have a good time. And if you don’t love the movie, smoke a spliff and watch it again. Then you’re gonna love it. But so anyway, we’re gonna play the movie now. And, you know, you sign off when you sign off, and you can watch it on Amazon later, but and we will continue to chat during the film. Is there anything that Taylor and RJ want to want to say before we switch over to, to our movie stream?

TAYLOR CARROLL: Thank you for having us on. We’re really grateful to be here. So thank you guys for thinking of us. And as far as the lit, live stream, it’s seven. It’s pretty cool. You might want to you know, check that out, too. It’s a it’s a word on the street from what I’m hearing is it’s a show that was in Vegas A while back, so it’s okay. Yeah. Okay.

ARI GOLD: So yeah, if you watch the movie, you’ll you’ll, you’ll want to stop the movie at seven and switch over. And if you and if you’re on the live stream right now, don’t worry, we’ll switch it over the movies gonna cut off in the climax and you’ll move over to lit which is okay, because you can watch it for free on Amazon. And even if you watch it for free, it actually, Amazon still pays us and then we send the money to music cares. So you guys, thanks. So adventures, the power check it out. And we’ll be chatting. You can still chat with us on whatever channels you’re on. And we’ll figure out how to keep chatting back to you as much as we can. I want to say RJ and Taylor, so amazing to have you here. And I also want to give a shout out to Archie’s ice cream truck that introduced us as far as I remember. I think it was RCS ice cream. The most amazing guy named Shante, who has been at every great rock show in history with his truck and inside is signed by you know everyone from from Led Zeppelin to lit and hail storm inside that truck in the best ice cream. So thank you, Shannon. Thank you Archie’s ice cream for introducing us and please also sorry last shout out because Neal peered also is in the movie and brought us together watch the Neil Peart special on Modern Drummer you can go to pierde dot air drummer.com to buy the special it’s four hours of all the best drummers in the world. Although you guys aren’t on it yet. Yeah, almost all okay, almost all of the best drummers in the world other than two if you go to again it’s peart.airdrummer.com and buy the special four hours of amazing amazing amazing stuff about drumming and life and about you know, period and everything. So thank you all and enjoy the show. This is a beautiful movie that comes from the heart about the way air drumming and really about rhythm and drumming can change the world. And it’s it’s funny too. So enjoy.

This interview originally appeared on Hotsticks.fm.

See more about Arejay Hale & Taylor Carroll on the official site for Adventures of Power, the world’s greatest (and only) Air Drum Movie!

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